.223, 6mm, and 6.5 failures on big game

[huntnful]

If I would have been tracking or losing animals because of the 223 I'd probably be back to shooting the 300wm. Nothing wrong with whatever a person shoots. Actually kind of great we live in a time were we have basically unlimited combos of bullets, cartridges, barrels, actions, scopes, etc. I'll still be hunting with my 06 on occasion and I still hunt with my .30-30 if I'm hunting thick brush/timber. But majority of my hunting will be with my 223 unless I decide to get a 6mm of some sort. It's fun to debate because we probably all learn something we didn't know but the arguing back and forth like 8 year olds is dumb. Myself included. I get after my kids for this and then I get here and do the same thing. Anyhow, glad we all shoot different stuff otherwise we wouldn't be having these discussions. Happy hunting to you all.

Well said. I do it too now that season is winding down. We’re just irritable I think .

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

If I would have been tracking or losing animals because of the 223 I'd probably be back to shooting the 300wm. Nothing wrong with whatever a person shoots. Actually kind of great we live in a time were we have basically unlimited combos of bullets, cartridges, barrels, actions, scopes, etc. I'll still be hunting with my 06 on occasion and I still hunt with my .30-30 if I'm hunting thick brush/timber. But majority of my hunting will be with my 223 unless I decide to get a 6mm of some sort. It's fun to debate because we probably all learn something we didn't know but the arguing back and forth like 8 year olds is dumb. Myself included. I get after my kids for this and then I get here and do the same thing. Anyhow, glad we all shoot different stuff otherwise we wouldn't be having these discussions. Happy hunting to you all.

Agree. And your first sentence is spot on. I’ve been laid up with Covid the last couple days and it’s fun to meet new folks virtually and get different perspectives when I’m bored out of mind in bed.

I know without a doubt that the vast majority of folks on here, while there may be disagreements, would all share some good conversations and laughs around a camp fire. The internet makes people weird, myself included, which is why I have zero internet or “app” interactions other than Rokslide.

 

[HandgunHTR]

Could have been tough one. Then why did 230 a tip stone it? When i say tough one im comparing same guns bullets and wounds. 22 creedmoor could have killed the elk with more time. But i didnt have it. In that exact scenario the bigger gun gave the edge. Your guys argument is follow up shots. This dude never killed anything at 700 yards and in low light was able to stack 4 rounds. Im not arguing you cannot kill a elk with a small gun im arguing theres a better tool just practice more with it. As for archery the wound is apples to oranges. That being said ive killed two bulls with arrrows still in them. I gave 22 creed a chance it wasn’t impressive it did exactly what i expected it to do. As a kid i hunted with 25/06 with corelokts when they were popular. I never killed a bull one shot. But plenty with 300 win mag and corelokts went down in one shot. Maybe im biased on it since i can shoot big magnums small and watch my impacts so i dont see the reason to go down in size.

How long between the first couple of shots with the Creedmoor and the final shot with the 230 A-tip?

The reason that I ask is that there is a less than zero chance that the elk was already in the process of going down and the 230 A-tip didn't actually "stone it", it was just a factor of timing.

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

Speaking of a different perspectives and experiences… Here are some big game animal hearts that were hit with bullets or fragments this season. All hit with 22 Creedmoor shooting 80 ELDX, from 30 yards to 600+ yards.

None of the animals “acted like they weren’t hit”. Some were dead on the spot. Some ran 100 yards before dying. One dropped on the spot but tumbled nearly 200 yards down a steep face. Not all were shot in the heart as some were neck shots or misses. All animals recovered.

In 12 total kills since September, taking the average distance traveled before falling and dying was 38.75 yards.

In the photos below, there is zero discernible difference from past years shooting 30 cals, 7mm, 6.5mm, and 6mms on major organs. I have hundreds of similar photos from years past. If I posted a “guess which bullet did this damage” post with multiple sets of big game vitals, you’d have no way of knowing what was 30 cal and what was .224.

 

[barehandlineman]

Can you provide some details on the 22CM shot? You said it did not perform. How did it not perform?

First shot high shoulder. Second shot single lung. I couldn’t tell going off bulls response if he was even hit or clean miss. What i call failure.

How long between the first couple of shots with the Creedmoor and the final shot with the 230 A-tip?

The reason that I ask is that there is a less than zero chance that the elk was already in the process of going down and the 230 A-tip didn't actually "stone it", it was just a factor of timing.

Less then a minute after second shot. Thick timber very easy to lose a animal.

 

[huntnful]

Agree. And your first sentence is spot on. I’ve been laid up with Covid the last couple days and it’s fun to meet new folks virtually and get different perspectives when I’m bored out of mind in bed.

I know without a doubt that the vast majority of folks on here, while there may be disagreements, would all share some good conversations and laughs around a camp fire. The internet makes people weird, myself included, which is why I have zero internet or “app” interactions other than Rokslide.

Yeah it does suck to try and convey what you’re REALLY trying to say on here sometimes. Text definitely isn’t the best communication tool. Lots of intent and emotion gets lost in the written word for sure.

We would all have a blast around a campfire talking shit lol. Someone would bring back an elk they killed with a 22 CM that they needed to shoot in order to make the most obscure positional shot in history because they forced themselves into that scenario. And I would bring back my elk that was easily killed with a magnum rifle on the same mountain at the same distance and we would all talk shit on each others choices. While having the same results laying right there. It would be a blast lol.

 

[barehandlineman]

Disregard they wont load

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

And yes I could tell that all animals were hit by seeing the impact through the scope. Something I practice a lot.

Not only that, if you kill enough you know the very distinct sound of an animal being impacted with a bullet. The 80 ELDX makes a very distinct and distinguishable noise when hitting flesh.

Another advantage of shooting suppressed over braked rifles with ear plugs (my 22 Creedmoor is not suppressed yet).

 

[barehandlineman]

And yes I could tell that all animals were hit by seeing the impact through the scope. Something I practice a lot.

Not only that, if you kill enough you know the very distinct sound of an animal being impacted with a bullet. The 80 ELDX makes a very distinct and distinguishable noise when hitting flesh.

Agreed. At 500 yards little guns dont give that feedback and watching through scope with no vapor couldn’t see impact.. i was on spotter couldn’t see impact. Did on 230 though.

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

Agreed. At 500 yards little guns dont give that feedback and watching through scope with no vapor couldn’t see impact.. i was on spotter couldn’t see impact. Did on 230 though.

Mule deer at 600+ and moose at 500+ with 80 ELDX, Maven RS1.2 on 8 power, both shots were spotted and feedback received. Both audible and visual.

Maybe closer to 700 or 800 on an animal it could be different? On steel out past 1,200 I get enough splash and sound it’s no issue.

 

[barehandlineman]

@barehandlineman now you’ve woken the self appointed know it all. You’ll quickly learn, I assume you already have, that his experience is all the matters. He can shoot an animal 5 times including a coup de grace, and it’s just an animal that’s tuned up. So there’s never a failure, and he can’t be wrong. There always a reason, a way to explain away what happens. When he gets stuck, he gets aggressive and starts answering questions with questions, insulting people’s intelligence and experience. Falling back on his “I’m black and white, I don’t have emotion or feelings”.

Keep it up and he’ll start cherry picking google definitions to throw at you to show how smart he is, until he gets called out.

He’ll happily assume things like “you have no experience with X” just to prove a point, whether it’s truE or not, then when proven wrong just move on.

It’s too bad his social and communication skills are so poor because he does actually have good information to share. But his inability to do it makes him…well him. At some point you just ignore him, I’m still working on getting to that point.

Hes got his opinion and his experience to back it. Thats good it works for him. Im just not convinced its the best choice for elk hunting i dont think i gain anything. Which is fine shoot what you want.

 

[barehandlineman]

At 500 suppressed gun i couldn’t hear it. Maybe the canyon and scenario? Hard saying but the 230 i did. Validated enough for me it wont be used again because i try it one time and one time it didn't perform with what i want to see. It was side by side comparison and stevie wonder could have seen the difference.

Aldo eldm not eldx

 

[mtnbound]

First shot high shoulder. Second shot single lung. I couldn’t tell going off bulls response if he was even hit or clean miss. What i call failure.

Less then a minute after second shot. Thick timber very easy to lose a animal.

What was the distance of the shots? What was the shot angle? The first impact in the high shoulder how was the penetration?

 

[huntnful]

Speaking of a different perspectives and experiences… Here are some big game animal hearts that were hit with bullets or fragments this season. All hit with 22 Creedmoor shooting 80 ELDX, from 30 yards to 600+ yards.

None of the animals “acted like they weren’t hit”. Some were dead on the spot. Some ran 100 yards before dying. One dropped on the spot but tumbled nearly 200 yards down a steep face. Not all were shot in the heart as some were neck shots or misses. All animals recovered.

In 12 total kills since September, taking the average distance traveled before falling and dying was 38.75 yards.

In the photos below, there is zero discernible difference from past years shooting 30 cals, 7mm, 6.5mm, and 6mms on major organs. I have hundreds of similar photos from years past. If I posted a “guess which bullet did this damage” post with multiple sets of big game vitals, you’d have no way of knowing what was 30 cal and what was .224.

View attachment 797443

View attachment 797444

View attachment 797445

View attachment 797446

View attachment 797447

View attachment 797451

View attachment 797453

Great photos!

Caribou Heart. 360 yards. 180 Hybrid.

I think there’s a visible difference personally. Cant shove a closed fist through any .224 entrance wound that I’ve seen yet?

 

[barehandlineman]

480 to be exact. Maybe 6 deg. Penetration was shallow 3-4 inches on high shoulder

 

[mt100gr.]

480 to be exact. Maybe 6 deg. Penetration was shallow 3-4 inches on high shoulder

Broadside?

 

[Formidilosus]

Cant shove a closed fist through any .224 entrance wound that I’ve seen yet?

Have you read the 223 thread- all of it?


This one you most definitely could-



And this one-




And this one-



And this one-


On and on.

There are hundreds of pictures in that thread-frequently spectacularly destructive.

 

[barehandlineman]

Yes broadside. A lot of antelope and deer sure 6mm be good. Wouldn’t be my first choice on big mule deer in big country.

 

[mt100gr.]

Yes broadside. A lot of antelope and deer sure 6mm be good. Wouldn’t be my first choice on big mule deer in big country.

Anatomically speaking, which specific part of the "high shoulder" appeared impenetrable when you assessed bullet performance? What did the wound look like? Splash? Explosion? Pin hole?

 

[huntnful]

Have you read the 223 thread- all of it?


This one you most definitely could-
View attachment 797469


And this one-
View attachment 797470



And this one-
View attachment 797471


And this one-
View attachment 797472

On and on.

There are hundreds of pictures in that thread-frequently spectacularly destructive.

Now I’ve seen a couple lol. I’ve definitely dove deep in the threads. There is a lot of data. Reason for me having a 22CM and big 6mm. But easy to gloss over the specific photos also or make an under judgment of wound size from the photos.

The video is actually tough to tell how big the hole is until I put my actual hand in it as well though.