.223, 6mm, and 6.5 failures on big game

[deerhunter628]

How many “hundreds” of deer have 100% of the time “left a blood trail”.

I know of 6 other people in my life that have killed multiple hundred deer and elk. If I called each one of them right now on their cell phone and said there is a guy on the Internet claiming 100% blood trail rate on hundreds of confirmed kills they would all laugh out loud.

Ok. So of all the hunters out there you know 6 that have a different experience. I get it know it must be a lie since you now 6 people with a different experience. That makes sense.

 

[N2TRKYS]

I'm curious to learn more about this.

What was the shot placement? Broadside, back of lungs

Did you fire a follow-up shot? If so, with what effect? No second shot offered

Did you do an autopsy? No

Any photos? No

She ran about 50 yards with no blood trail, due to no pass through. I’ve shot deer in the same spot with bonded bullets with a better result.

I’m gonna give 70 grain Accubonds a try this season.

 

[B_Reynolds_AK]

Anyone got a match the dumpster is ready to be lit

You called it

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

Ok. So of all the hunters out there you know 6 that have a different experience. I get it know it must be a lie since you now 6 people with a different experience. That makes sense.

Dude… “100s of kills” and 100% “left a blood trail” is just not reality is what I’m trying to say. I’m not trying to be an ass, I’m explaining what happens when those kill numbers are actually achieved in real life with multiple shooters achieving said numbers.

This is exactly what I knew this thread would turn into.

 

[eoperator]

You called it

It's not to bad I was expecting name calling by page 3.

 

[Dave0317]

I’ve had a couple with no blood trail.
One was a buck that got heart shot with a 150 grain .308, about 100 yards away. Federal power shok ammo. No exit wound, but the buck fell right where he stood after spinning a 180. May not really count since there was no “trail” at all really. But, illustrates the point that if you destroy the heart, and, don’t have an exit, there likely won’t be much blood exit the body.

Other one was a buck at about 30 yards. I was level with him and the shot was high double lung. 45-70 with a 405 grain bullet. He was dead maybe another 70 yards away, and there was almost zero blood between where I shot and until a few yards of where he laid, there was a good splotch of blood on the leaves. I think I found one pin point of blood where he was shot, and then I just grid searched the next 70 yards until I found him. I don’t think any bullet would have done much different there, but all that energy didn’t help leave extra blood either. High in the chest cavity and a bullet diameter entrance and bullet diameter exit meant that the chest cavity had to get pretty full of blood before it started flowing out. At least that’s my theory. And you see lots of archery guys share similar experiences with high lung hits.

Bottom line, both big and small bullets can leave a lack of blood. That doesn’t really indicate anything for or against overall lethality. More blood is not bad, but a dead deer 20 yards away with a liquefied heart is not a bad thing either.

 

[deerhunter628]

Dude… “100s of kills” and 100% “left a blood trail” is just not reality is what I’m trying to say. I’m not trying to be an ass, I’m explaining what happens when those kill numbers are actually achieved in real life with multiple shooters achieving said numbers.

This is exactly what I knew this thread would turn into.

Actually that one i killed with the 77 tmk did not have a blood trail so i stand corrected. You said that i was lying. There is no way that you were not trying to be an ass. At least own it. I will say it again. I have no reason to lie there is absolutely no benefit for me to lie. That is my experience no matter what you and your 6 friends have experienced. And no. I dont have video of all the blood trails.

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

Bottom line, both big and small bullets can leave a lack of blood. That doesn’t really indicate anything for or against overall lethality. More blood is not bad, but a dead deer 20 yards away with a liquefied heart is not a bad thing either.

This is reality. If someone came in here stating “the vast majority” of my hundreds of kills have left a blood trail. That’s a fair and reasonable point.

Claiming absolutes to the tune of 100s of kills is internet exaggeration to try and help prove a point or sway a disagreement in their favor.

 

[deerhunter628]

This is reality. If someone came in here stating “the vast majority” of my hundreds of kills have left a blood trail. That’s a fair and reasonable point.

Claiming absolutes to the tune of 100s of kills is internet exaggeration to try and help prove a point or sway a disagreement in their favor.

What point am i trying to prove in my favor or what disagreement am i trying to sway. I said the 223 and 77 grain tmk killed the deer. I said it did not leave a blood trail. Those are facts. I said i have not used that combo again. That too is a fact. I never said nobody should use that combo. You are the only one trying to prove a point or trying to sway a perceived disagreement.

 

[rifletuner]

Metric system. That was your problem. If you had shot the boar at 54.6807 yards you would have gotten him.




P

Yes, and this fact has haunted me for years.

 

[Dave0317]

This is reality. If someone came in here stating “the vast majority” of my hundreds of kills have left a blood trail. That’s a fair and reasonable point.

Claiming absolutes to the tune of 100s of kills is internet exaggeration to try and help prove a point or sway a disagreement in their favor.

Agreed

 

[Dave0317]

How will they know the bullet “failed” unless the animal is recovered and photos of the damage (or lack of damage) are recorded? Otherwise the entire thread will be “stories” and “hearsay”.

If someone has a failure post to share, I think it should include photographic evidence of said “splashes” or “blow ups”. The only way anyone would know that either of those things happened is if they recover a dead animal.

Please include photos to backup claims so we can all potentially learn something.

This definitely crossed my mind when I first posted. No kill=less likely to have photos.
I’m hoping that by now, in 2024, some YouTuber or just plain home videographer has captured an attempted kill that maybe has video of a solid normally lethal hit, but their ELD or TMK “splashed” on the shoulder or something. It’s a story you hear every so often, so maybe by now someone has caught that on video.

Page 4 though and no pics or videos yet.

 

[N2TRKYS]

This definitely crossed my mind when I first posted. No kill=less likely to have photos.
I’m hoping that by now, in 2024, some YouTuber or just plain home videographer has captured an attempted kill that maybe has video of a solid normally lethal hit, but their ELD or TMK “splashed” on the shoulder or something. It’s a story you hear every so often, so maybe by now someone has caught that on video.

Page 4 though and no pics or videos yet.

I don’t have pics cause I don’t have anything to prove to anybody on the internet. All I can do is take my on experiences and make choices off of that. Doesn’t prove or disprove anything for anybody else, but doesn’t have to.

 

[LeftyWilbury]

first bear i shot was with 30-06, 180 rem core loks. broadside. 75 yards. thought i'd be smart and "immobilize" the big bruin with a shoulder shot. BOOM blood flies up off the shoulder like old faithful, bear rolls over, i congratulate myself on a fine offhand shot. i sure showed him!

bear pops up, sets new world record for 13.1 mile sprint to what i can only guess is a different county or even country. sparse blood trail. followed tracks a mile plus down a mountain. bear's gait told me he was unimpressed. sustained many yellow jacket stings from tracking over yellow jacket nests. lost bear. no pics because bear was lost, also, we used real film back in those days and that sh!t wasn't cheap.

lesson learned, regardless of caliber, just don't shoot a bear right in the damn shoulder.

i was successful on the second bear with easton 2275 aluminum arrows at maybe 230 fps and a muzzy broadhead. seems like, i dunno, shot placement is important. still no pics tho,

 

[2five7]

One time, I shot a deer with a .223/64 grain power point, it died in about 10 seconds. Another time, I shot a deer with a .338/250 sierra gameking, it died in 2 seconds. This is irrefutable proof that 338s will kill 5x faster.

 

[Dave0317]

I don’t have pics cause I don’t have anything to prove to anybody on the internet. All I can do is take my on experiences and make choices off of that. Doesn’t prove or disprove anything for anybody else, but doesn’t have to.

Absolutely agree. Keep killing with the stuff you like to kill with.

Thread simply stands as an open invitation for those that do have some solid evidence that contradicts the piles of animals in the .223, 6, and 6.5 threads.

I’m largely curious myself. Smallest thing I have shot a deer with yet is a .308. (Unless you count arrows)
This year I plan to bring my .223 deer hunting, but figured this thread could be a good final check off to see if there is any real reason not to. So far, I’ll still be bringing the .223.

 

[Lou270]

The problem with the whole “show me” idea as the only proof of something is that failures often get away or not something somebody is proud of or thinks to take a pic. Especially, since we established blood trails are not reliable with anything. For the 22 guys, Prove to me with pictures that last miss or should I say not recovered animal wasn’t just wounded due to small cartridge or poor bullet. If not, I guess I should assume someone is lying and only showing pics of successes on these posts and hiding the fails. Setting things up so only one side can be “right” is not a robust argument but it can be convenient

For the record I am a 243 Win and 6.5 cm fan. I will have a 22cm someday for TX deer and coyote. However dismissing someone else’s anecdotal evidence because you think yours is better is silly. If you are really worried about it you should follow the manufacturers recommendations as they designed the bullets for a purpose, tested them, and get feedback from customers.


Lou

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

Absolutely agree. Keep killing with the stuff you like to kill with.

Thread simply stands as an open invitation for those that do have some solid evidence that contradicts the piles of animals in the .223, 6, and 6.5 threads.

I’m largely curious myself. Smallest thing I have shot a deer with yet is a .308. (Unless you count arrows)
This year I plan to bring my .223 deer hunting, but figured this thread could be a good final check off to see if there is any real reason not to. So far, I’ll still be bringing the .223.

I am with you. Never killed any big game animals with .224 calibers until September 2024.

I even had to “double check” with a couple PMs here and calls to locals before taking off for AK moose with my .223 and .22 Creedmoor Tikkas.

3 for 3 so far with 80 ELDX and one shot kills. Moose, Bear, and Mule deer, lots more to go. I will gladly post a photo or if I can get it, a video of a failure of 80 ELDX or 77 TMK if it happens. I’ll post unedited results here if a failure occurs.

 

[MuleyFever]

I want to be the smart ass to point out that statistically, everything is inevitable. Someone will shoot "hundreds of animals" with 100% of them having a blood trail. You can choose to believe it or not.

 

[HuntHarder]

Problem is, a guy just posted a picture of a Eld-x not performing well and requiring another shot. Make that 2 pictures and the guy's story has not changed. What we get instead of accepting this "failure" is guys trying to tell him what really happened. Theories of shooting thru another deer first, bullet bouncing off the ground first, hitting a twig, animal severely quartered. So many theories with few actually just believing that maybe, just maybe, an eld-x didn't perform like it usually does. Resident expert determines there are 3 holes in the rib cage, even though the OP confirms there are 0 holes in the cavity.