.204/BE Rampage Component Recommendation

[PSDBowhunter]

I've been shooting Black Eagle Rampages for the past few years. Had FMJ's before that, so I do like and prefer the .204 arrows. Looking to build some new Rampages this year specifically with elk in mind. My current arrows use the standard Black Eagle half out up front along with 100 grain heads.

I'd like to build my new set with H.I.T. inserts and collars. Looking for recommendations/experience on the following:

1. Is there a strength or accuracy advantage between Easton HIT (AL or brass), Ethics Archery (AL or SS) or Iron Will inserts?

2. Is there a strength or accuracy advantage between Ethics Archery, Iron Will, or VPA collars?

As of now, I'm leaning toward the Ethics Archery package of inserts and collars. I'm shooting for a total arrow weight in the 450 - 500 grain range, so I don't need super heavy components, but also don't want to sacrifice durability. Arrows will be approximately 28.5" long, 300 spine with 125 grain heads. I also plan to install Tophat ring protectors on the nock of the arrow. Will be shooting out of Bowtech Revolt X set at 29.5" and 72#.

Open to any other advice or opinions as well.

 

[Trial153]

I I have built multiple dozen 204 Id shafts with all three components sets you stated. They are all quality products.

You really can’t go wrong with any combination of them. Brass hits will save you some money, and I guess in theory you give up strength and tolerances for it. Does it have an measurable effect, hard to say in practice. I no longer use them since SS steel HITS are now easy to obtain.

If your( I am ) the type of person that sweats details and wants the best possible no doubt in my mind that IW has the best components for 204 shafts on the market. I have used both their collars TI and SS and they are precise and very durable. I have yet to see any flaws in them, they always spin true when I do my part in the build.

 

[Trial153]

Also unless I am wrong, I haven’t contacted Ray at VPA in quite awhile, I am pretty sure he is ordering flanged collars for sale any more.
Maybe some else on here could confirm with kore recent info.

 

[entropy]

I've got no experience with Easton or IW components, but I've built a bunch of Black Eagle, Easton, and Sirius arrows using Ethics components. Both for myself and for friends and relatives.

I would stay away from any Ethics system (HIT or conventional outsert) that uses an aluminum sleeve. The aluminum sleeves, in my experience, will not take hard impacts well. In fact, I don't think I ever had one of those arrows that would still spin after a hard impact.

However, the steel sleeves, whether they have an aluminum or steel post, are pretty much bombproof for me. I only recall ever having one arrow take a hard hit and fail to spin afterwards.

A buddy bought a set of Grizzlystiks a couple years ago. Their outsert system appears to be an aluminum post with a brass sleeve. He's had a bunch of those arrows fail to spin after hard hits. Basically, I think the lesson is that if you're going to go this direction with arrow building, use steel sleeves.

 

[doc holiday13]

My next experiment with inserts is to use AL axis HITs, IW Collar, and Broadhead as one unit glued in with hot melt

 

[nphunter]

I have bent a .204 75gr Brasss hit with a 25gr SS collar. I missed a 70 yard target low and hit a giant granite boulder, this was with a 500gr arrow from a 77lb bow. The field tip broke off and the IW collar split down the side, once I pulled the collar off the arrow looked fine but would not spin true the brass HIT bent, I put a new collar on and used it as a field tip only arrow and it worked great. Those were RIP TKOs, from my experience with BE arrows my arrow would have probably exploded if I made the same shot with the BE.

Like Trial said, IW components are awesome, I have several sets of both the 25gr and 10gr Ti collars and am currently using 100gr SS hits. One huge advantage of the IW HITs is that they will come out using the drill bit trick, the brass and aluminum hits mushroom and split your arrow when trying to get them out but the IW's come out looking like brand new without ruining the arrow. I just toss the removed HITs in a bowl of acetone for a bit to get the Easton epoxy off and they look just like new.

 

[brentr9]

I personally shoot 300 spine BE rampages with Easton HIT insert and gold tip kinetic collar. I use 150gr broadheads with a total arrow weight around 475. They’ve been a bullet proof set up. 10/10 recommend.

 

[roosiebull]

I've been shooting Black Eagle Rampages for the past few years. Had FMJ's before that, so I do like and prefer the .204 arrows. Looking to build some new Rampages this year specifically with elk in mind. My current arrows use the standard Black Eagle half out up front along with 100 grain heads.

I'd like to build my new set with H.I.T. inserts and collars. Looking for recommendations/experience on the following:

1. Is there a strength or accuracy advantage between Easton HIT (AL or brass), Ethics Archery (AL or SS) or Iron Will inserts?

2. Is there a strength or accuracy advantage between Ethics Archery, Iron Will, or VPA collars?

As of now, I'm leaning toward the Ethics Archery package of inserts and collars. I'm shooting for a total arrow weight in the 450 - 500 grain range, so I don't need super heavy components, but also don't want to sacrifice durability. Arrows will be approximately 28.5" long, 300 spine with 125 grain heads. I also plan to install Tophat ring protectors on the nock of the arrow. Will be shooting out of Bowtech Revolt X set at 29.5" and 72#.

Open to any other advice or opinions as well.

I think the IW components are the best thing going. I am still using the stock half outs because I like the ability to add weight to the insert, but I have spares, and use hot melt so I can easily swap them out

My next set I will likely build with IW components, I just need to settle on a couple heads I’m willing to live with before I “settle down”

The half outs aren’t great, but at least they start with good tolerances

 

[PSDBowhunter]

I I have built multiple dozen 204 Id shafts with all three components sets you stated. They are all quality products.

You really can’t go wrong with any combination of them. Brass hits will save you some money, and I guess in theory you give up strength and tolerances for it. Does it have an measurable effect, hard to say in practice. I no longer use them since SS steel HITS are now easy to obtain.

If your( I am ) the type of person that sweats details and wants the best possible no doubt in my mind that IW has the best components for 204 shafts on the market. I have used both their collars TI and SS and they are precise and very durable. I have yet to see any flaws in them, they always spin true when I do my part in the build.

Good to know. I know I've see you talk about your Rampage builds on a couple of older threads.

SS hits and collars seem to be the way to go.

I definitely sweat the details, haha!

 

[PSDBowhunter]

I've got no experience with Easton or IW components, but I've built a bunch of Black Eagle, Easton, and Sirius arrows using Ethics components. Both for myself and for friends and relatives.

I would stay away from any Ethics system (HIT or conventional outsert) that uses an aluminum sleeve. The aluminum sleeves, in my experience, will not take hard impacts well. In fact, I don't think I ever had one of those arrows that would still spin after a hard impact.

However, the steel sleeves, whether they have an aluminum or steel post, are pretty much bombproof for me. I only recall ever having one arrow take a hard hit and fail to spin afterwards.

A buddy bought a set of Grizzlystiks a couple years ago. Their outsert system appears to be an aluminum post with a brass sleeve. He's had a bunch of those arrows fail to spin after hard hits. Basically, I think the lesson is that if you're going to go this direction with arrow building, use steel sleeves.

Definitely going to go with steel sleeves after doing more research.

IW seems to give the most flexibility on weight with steel components. The Ethics will get pretty heavy with steel collars and steel inserts.

I've also heard of guys having to sand their arrows with Ethics components. Not sure if they didn't get the right size or if that is a variance in tolerances.

 

[PSDBowhunter]

I have bent a .204 75gr Brasss hit with a 25gr SS collar. I missed a 70 yard target low and hit a giant granite boulder, this was with a 500gr arrow from a 77lb bow. The field tip broke off and the IW collar split down the side, once I pulled the collar off the arrow looked fine but would not spin true the brass HIT bent, I put a new collar on and used it as a field tip only arrow and it worked great. Those were RIP TKOs, from my experience with BE arrows my arrow would have probably exploded if I made the same shot with the BE.

Like Trial said, IW components are awesome, I have several sets of both the 25gr and 10gr Ti collars and am currently using 100gr SS hits. One huge advantage of the IW HITs is that they will come out using the drill bit trick, the brass and aluminum hits mushroom and split your arrow when trying to get them out but the IW's come out looking like brand new without ruining the arrow. I just toss the removed HITs in a bowl of acetone for a bit to get the Easton epoxy off and they look just like new.

I was wondering if anyone ever bent the brass inserts. I guess that's another reason to go with steel.

I've done the drill bit trick on arrows before. As long as I don't lose an arrow I guess I can keep using the inserts if my arrow blows up!

I know several people have talking about Rampage durability, but I have been shooting the same arrows for the last few years. I have had a couple of splits at the nock, which is why I want to put the tophat ring protectors on. I'm willing to sacrifice that for their spine consistency and accuracy.

 

[PSDBowhunter]

I personally shoot 300 spine BE rampages with Easton HIT insert and gold tip kinetic collar. I use 150gr broadheads with a total arrow weight around 475. They’ve been a bullet proof set up. 10/10 recommend.

How long are your arrows? That's right where I want to be. My setup now flies pretty well in the 455 grain range. That's with a 100 grain head though.

 

[PSDBowhunter]

I think the IW components are the best thing going. I am still using the stock half outs because I like the ability to add weight to the insert, but I have spares, and use hot melt so I can easily swap them out

My next set I will likely build with IW components, I just need to settle on a couple heads I’m willing to live with before I “settle down”

The half outs aren’t great, but at least they start with good tolerances

I honestly haven't had an issue with the half outs like some have, but, if I'm going to build a new set, I'm going to build them right.

I feel like the combination of a 204 arrow with a HIT insert and a collar is the best compromise.

Still working on the right head as well. Been mainly shooting slick tricks mags, but I'm leaning towards QAD exodus heads for this year.

 

[entropy]

Definitely going to go with steel sleeves after doing more research.

IW seems to give the most flexibility on weight with steel components. The Ethics will get pretty heavy with steel collars and steel inserts.

I've also heard of guys having to sand their arrows with Ethics components. Not sure if they didn't get the right size or if that is a variance in tolerances.

Depends on the shaft, but for most Ethics makes three systems; HIT with an end cap (analogous to IW with a HIT), HIT with an outsert sleeve, and conventional outsert system.

I am personally in the position of needing to slow my arrows down (30.5" draw at 75 lbs), so normally unless I'm building from a high gpi shaft I'm not worried about how heavy the components are. Last year I was at 280 fps with 562 gr arrows.

But all you need is a hacksaw to take up to 30 gr off Ethics aluminum posts, or up to 90 gr off their steel posts. I'm building new arrows right now, and looking at what IW costs compared to Ethics, I personally can't justify it.

I've had to sand shafts on several of my builds with Ethics components over the years. It's one of those things; they can't economically make every single shaft diameter that's out there, so you can buy the next size bigger and have an outsert sleeve that's too big for your shaft, or you can buy one that's a bit smaller and do a little sanding. The same is true of IW. Their collars are available in .2815, .276, .269, .263, etc. What do you do if the shaft you want to build is a 250 spine Victory RIP TKO, which has an outside diameter of .266? You either buy the .269 and live with the loose fit, or buy the .263 and do some sanding.

 

[PSDBowhunter]

Either buy the .269 and live with the loose fit, or buy the .263 and do some sanding.

So which is better? A little sanding or loose by . 005?

Also, do you guys typically glue on your sleeves or leave them on dry?

 

[entropy]

So which is better? A little sanding or loose by . 005?

Also, do you guys typically glue on your sleeves or leave them on dry?

Haha. In a world where I didn't actually have to do the sanding myself, or wasn't cheap and bought some tool to help, I'd always sand shafts to make a tight fit. If I ever get shafts that are like .005 over sleeve diameter again, I probably will get a tool, because that's a lot of effing sanding, even with 100 grit.

I always glue everything on.

 

[brentr9]

How long are your arrows? That's right where I want to be. My setup now flies pretty well in the 455 grain range. That's with a 100 grain head though.

I’m a 29.5” draw length for reference.

28.25” carbon to carbon. 16gr Easton HIT insert, 24.8gr gold tip kinetic kaos collar, 150grain broadhead, 4 fletch 2.1” q2i fusions 7.5gr/vane, 4” one stinger wrap 4.4gr and ncokturnal ~20gr.

I’m sure there are “higher quality” components available now.. but I haven’t had any issues with performance out of this build.

 

[gardo]

I've been shooting Black Eagle Rampages for the past few years. Had FMJ's before that, so I do like and prefer the .204 arrows. Looking to build some new Rampages this year specifically with elk in mind. My current arrows use the standard Black Eagle half out up front along with 100 grain heads.

I'd like to build my new set with H.I.T. inserts and collars. Looking for recommendations/experience on the following:

1. Is there a strength or accuracy advantage between Easton HIT (AL or brass), Ethics Archery (AL or SS) or Iron Will inserts?

2. Is there a strength or accuracy advantage between Ethics Archery, Iron Will, or VPA collars?

As of now, I'm leaning toward the Ethics Archery package of inserts and collars. I'm shooting for a total arrow weight in the 450 - 500 grain range, so I don't need super heavy components, but also don't want to sacrifice durability. Arrows will be approximately 28.5" long, 300 spine with 125 grain heads. I also plan to install Tophat ring protectors on the nock of the arrow. Will be shooting out of Bowtech Revolt X set at 29.5" and 72#.

Open to any other advice or opinions as well.

I have played with many of the components you have mentioned in an effort to find the ideal "Elk" arrow and here's what I would suggest. Take your existing BE Rampages with the half outs and go buy the BE brass weights that screw into the back. You'll have to get their weight adjustment tool as well. The weights come in 30, 50 and 75. Use these to find the weight and speed you want before buying new components. Personally, I don't like a fixed head over 280 fps so I worked on a combo that was as close to 280 fps with weight being whatever it was. For me, this seemed to get me the best KE and momentum (if you're a numbers guy like me) and it gave me the best accuracy with a fixed head. For reference I shoot a 125 IW. Once you find the weight and accuracy you like, start building a new setup with inserts, collar and head that best match the front weight of the outsert and screw ins if that makes sense. Again, I like IW myself. So in other words, I originally had the half outs (55gn) screw in (30gn) and head (125gn) which equals 210gn up front. I switched to IW collar (25gn), insert (50gn) and head (125gn) which is close at 200gn up front. However, if you go from half-out to insert, you will need to add .75" to your arrow which was close enough to make up the difference for me. Not sure if this makes sense and helps. And to answer your first question, I stongly believe a collar and insert beats a half-out on strength and I haven't seen a loss in accuracy buy making the change.

 

[rev44]

I use the 75 HIT brass insert with a collar from elk river archery. Have yet to break or bend anything on them.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[billysmals]

I may be the outlier here. I currently shoot the BE rampage and had problems with the bras HIT gluing in. Several would come halfway out when pulling from targets. Tried several glues and all had the same problem. I've used HIT's in FMJ's and never had a problem either. I then put in the BE SS halfout on another dozen BE rampage and using the same glue as before never had a problem with them coming out. So I can't really explain that...(I prepped them the same)

I ran the Ethics components (aluminum post and collar) on some 4mm Easton injections and they spun and flew fine, durability was okay unless it was a rock. I didn't glue my collar. If the collar bent I could get it off and then slide a new collar on. I would use them again in stainless (at least the collar) without hesitation. I won't use the aluminum again. As some have mentioned the weight with an SS collar and post can get high, it's like 120-2180gr all SS, even the aluminum post + SS collar is 90-110gr, which is just too much for me when I add the head of choice, even at a 100gr head. I try to finish my hunting arrow at around 440-450gr to hit that 280-285fps range (I have a shorter DL). So when half or more of that finish weight is just the insert and broadhead I have trouble keeping the arrow weight down low enough. My finished easton injexions in all aluminum ethics inserts finished at 469gr for reference.

The trouble I have with the IW is the price! But their components seem top tier. Podium Archery makes a titanium halfout for a 5mm shaft as well, but I haven't used them. I also don't know if you can add a collar to them.