2023 rut-less observatons

[sundance1]

Been throwing sticks at elk for 35 years here in Colorado. This has been the most confusing September, with Mr Bull Elk not giving a damn about finding girlfriends, or even trying to qualify for the UFC for elk. Some observations from my draw unit:
There were more rag bulls and less bulls over 4 years old, which makes me wonder just how many mature bulls were winter killed.
Without the big boys, the rut this year was comparable to a bunch of high school boys who were just hanging out., and finding bachelor groups in the middle of September was unheard of once upon a time.
I wore out more diapragms than usual, not from working bulls but from trying to locate.
I'd get a bull to answer, even maybe three or four times, and then it was an abrupt adios, even with raghorns.
It seems, no it is, that the rut is later every year, and more silent
I had more 3 year old bulls totally confound me into thinking I'd stumbled upon a big bull with their growling, moaning, hacking spitting, sandpaper bugles.
And yes, Colorado's elk herds are a shadow of what they were 10 years ago....don't believe eveything you read.
I made it a point to stop at more camps this year to see how everyone else was faring, and there were a lot of disgruntled hunters, who were having the same problems I was having., even the guide services were struggling to find elk
Come 2025, the Wildlife Commission...ie" special interest commission nowdays, had better do some sweeping changes with hunter numbers in the field, as in limit 2nd and 3rd rifle seasons, because at least in my part of the state, it is far from being a healthy herd.
There are too many people in the woods since Covid, it is not just hunting pressure. Elk are smart, and they are learning that making noises attracts humans. Gone are the hedays of making an elk sound and hearing the clicking of hooves as something came to check you out. And, that's sad.

 

[Minute_of_Antelope]

If it makes you feel any better, pretty similar experience in SE Idaho from several frustrated elk hunters I know. Rough winter up here

 

[TX1]

I saw the same thing, heard one bull then gone. I did call in a cow and thought hmmmn she sounds familiar to one i heard yesterday stepped around the trees at the water hole i was hid out at and saw 3 hunters answering my call call. said ok too many people here headed back to camp only about 15 minutes of light left and walked up to one of them and told him we were calling each other. he laughed then got a serious look on his face and told me he saw 3 cows and pointed to where i had stepped out around the trees and waved at them. Really glad it was not rifle season.

 

[11boo]

I spent 3 weeks in our finest zero point draw unit. You summed up our experience exactly. This was the only animal I saw come out, helped a friend who scored , with my machine.
Only muzzle shots heard were their last night when they emptied their guns.
Bleak. Hot. No talking at all. Still, a better time than hanging out with the wife.

 

[sndmn11]

Bummer!

I hope you leave it be and don't go complain to CPW in an effort to get changes made. There is plenty good about Colorado elk hunting for a lot of people.

 

[jpmulk]

Agreed it was a weird year. Id say my worst year I’ve ever had for bugling bulls. We did have one phenomenal day where we worked 5 bulls for four hours.

Not sure if we just weren’t timing things right this year or what the deal was. The funniest moment was a bull i surprised with a bugle. He stood up out of his bed 72 yards away. Then he turned in a circle and bedded back down. He proceeded to lay in plain view without any interest in anything I tried to do to gain his interest. (We could not get closer due to deadfall). There were no Fs given by that bull haha. And he was a decent bull.

Talked to quite a few other hunters this year in our area with the same story.

 

[Gerbdog]

Talked to as many other hunters as i could while i was hunting this year in a CO point unit.... which was a lot... they all reported the same experience.

That said.... I had the opposite experience from everyone i talked to. I had pissed off bulls at the beginning of September that were mature, and i know they were because they came in close..... and it felt like the rut was full swing the first two weeks of Sept.

At the end of Sept they were still talking they just were not looking to fight.... and i blame that on hunter education courses over the first few weeks of the season.... way more wary of coming into calls.

I had ZERO bulls bugle to cow calls this year.

This last week I crept in on 2 different herds of cows + their bull to about 80 yards and started making a ruckus as another bull trying to come in and take that bulls cows from him....
They both gave zero craps.... they literally laid in there bed and made no move, no sound, nothing.

I dogged both those herds all day... and they never once responded to my bugles.... they did respond to other real bulls bugles....

As i said... i think it was hunter education.

Could be calling quality but... i dont think i sound bad.... i usually get responses. I had help this last weekend, and he ripped off his first location bugle and i turned to him to let him know it sounded like crap, a guy (human) yelling through a tube.... not sure he even used the reed in his mouth.... and he grinned and said yea it does.... but it works.... and then to prove his point he got a response 15 seconds later.... so i dont think they gave THAT much care for the sounds being produced.

 

[ElkNut1]

When hunters start realizing that the large majority of bulls do not want to fight; you will start becoming a much better elk hunter/caller. Sure there are bulls that can be defensive but they choose to warn than to fight. Hunters will do much better with all bulls when they start reading situations better. -- I see hunters Challenging every bugle they hear, huge mistake. This is why so many fail in the calling game. You need to setup the situation before dropping the hammer. Guys just don't get it, they want to make a few elk sounds & want the elk come running to them, guys it rarely turns out that way.

ElkNut

 

[Jaquomo]

I hunt an area where elk have adapted to hunters, ATVs, motorcycles, and people in general. They sometimes bugle at night, move around a lot from tracks on the road, but pretty much live in silence.
Lots of green feed and water in that timber- everything elk need.

I called in 7 the first week, plus a few hunters. Bulls were real vocal but hanging away from the cows.. Passed 2. Had a real nice 5x6 come in from 1/3 mile away at 8:30 am, came straight in on a string to 8 yards, screamed at me a few times,and I never had an opportunity to draw. I never liked the shot anyway. Then he turned straight away and walked back up the hill.

After that, for the rest of the season, it was like whitetail still hunting 30 yards inside the timber, stalking elk, hoping to spot them first. Treestands might be the ticket but damn, that doesn't feel like elk hunting even though I've killed a few from them. Elk are there but have adapted, so I adapted and was into elk regularly. Chose not to shoot one because wife is going to shoot a buffalo and still have deer season, we'll have a meat problem.

Overall, more hunters compressed into smaller spaces, later rut, early on they acted like elk and later they were doing the same things but mostly quiet. Maybe because elk sounds bring people...

 

[Pacific_Fork]

When hunters start realizing that the large majority of bulls do not want to fight; you will start becoming a much better elk hunter/caller. Sure there are bulls that can be defensive but they choose to warn than to fight. Hunters will do much better with all bulls when they start reading situations better. -- I see hunters Challenging every bugle they hear, huge mistake. This is why so many fail in the calling game. You need to setup the situation before dropping the hammer. Guys just don't get it, they want to make a few elk sounds & want the elk come running to them, guys it rarely turns out that way.

ElkNut

More the reason to not promote calling to the masses. So many rookies out there without a clue about the language (myself included) should leave the calls at home or go with an experienced caller. Lots of big bulls die every year by the 1% guys that get it done year after year without calling too. OTC mature bulls are wise, I’ve had the fortune to hunt elk in 3 different draw zones from the Gila to Nevada and those animals are from a different planet, you can call all poorly day long and get responses.

 

[trophyhill]

In the rutless unit I hunted, I did not hear 1 single bugle. I had 2 spikes sneak in silent last weekend, and 2 very small raggies sneak in silent the weekend before. Opening weekend I had 2 bulls barking back and forth at each other while I attempted to sneak in for a closer look. I knew it was futile because they were in the deadfall making it impossible to get too. But I only had the first and half the second day to hunt so I went for it. Once I got within 100 yards of one of them, I never heard or saw either one after that. He had to of seen me, because I know he heard me and knew he would hear me coming. Impossible to stay quiet in that crap.

I was hunting between 9k and 10.2k. After the season I got to thinking. In this area, there was record all time snow. I think I was told there was snow until late July. My theory is the elk that are normally in this area either had a heavy winter kill, or they just never moved back up because they found everything they needed lower before the snow melted and had no reason to move up. Who knows but it was frustrating for sure. I should have spent some time down low in the oak brush but darn was it hot lower.

I briefly left for 2 days and found the grass was not greener on the other side of the mountain, but it was loaded with hunters so I went back to where I was originally.

I think Lou hit on something there. And that is the elk have adapted to the constant heavy human pressure. Just like they have around wolves.

 

[sundance1]

I can only speak for Colorado and it is not some off the cuff observations. I spend a lot of time in the woods and Covid made a lot of people discover recreation. Colorado is a destination point for people recreating and also a mass movement of people moving here. Wildlife adapt. On the land i was raised on, if I saw a Mule deer track it was big news. Last summer there was an average of 35-40 around my dads house all summer long, and I mean shading up in lilac bushes. And why? They learned that they were safest on private land, that about as good of habitat as in the mountains is there, and they don't have to migrate as far, if at all. The days of good hunting are behind us simply because there are too many humans infringing into their world year round, and too many humans trying to kill them. This hits elk the hardest because they are a reclusive animal who do not adapt like mule deer do. If you come to hunt elk in this state, all the old stories, all the old memories, are gone. There will be windows where hunting can be good, and you will learn fast that you need to be an elk psychiatrist to try and figure them out. It is a different game, more of a challenge, and I still put in the miles like I'm 50 because I like to get reclusive right along with these wapiti's. What frustrates me though is that the game management agencies are always a day late and a dollar short in policy changes.to account for humanity's infringement on wildlife as a whole. Look no further than Colorado's wolf introduction,,,,introduce a killing machine into the ecosystem because tree huggers want to see them in their backyard...one can only hope!

 

[dtrkyman]

I had no elk toags but was out bear hunting a fair amount in northern New Mexico, less bugling than normal for sure, didn't hear any at all most days!

Heard two going good a couple days ago, most consistent and aggressive calling I heard all fall.

 

[CoSwede]

It definately was a different season for us as well. Spent almost a week going through our nomal spots with little activity and was ready to relocate when on a hunch I went up high and found them within 100 yds of a major road. Usually there are plenty of camps off the road and they push them down to me but there was very little pressure from those folks this year so the elk just sat tight. The sheep were all over the bottom which may have played into that situation. Our last day of hunting we went way back to a high ridge before daylight and once daylight broke got answers from 7 bulls at the bottom. We were able to see two of them with 8 cows. We enjoyed the show for awhile but decided to end the season on a high note and let them be. One final note, of the bulls we saw this season there were an incredible number of sub-legal bulls as compared to legal bulls as others had observed. Can't wait until next year!

 

[Hnthrdr]

Was in several units this September, otc, low point and med point, heard a lot of bulls in otc, early although packing one out from where we heard it wouldn’t be fun. Point units were a lot quieter than I figured they would be. Although had friends who had periods of the ultimate elk hunting, 6-7 bulls bugling all around type action, that seemed to be the exception and not the rule. I’m with jaq on this, elk noises bring people so elk make less noise sometimes, one spot seemed to be on fire opening weekend, but last week of the season it has been eerily quiet.

Part of the variable of elk hunting which makes it tough and fun all at the same time. Also elknut is right. Not every bull wants to throw down, folks would be well served learning the difference between location bugles and herd bull bugles, lots of fellas out there playing born and raised and bugling every 15 steps and then wondering why the bulls are silent… call it conditioning

 

[sndmn11]

Come 2025, the Wildlife Commission...ie" special interest commission nowdays, had better do some sweeping changes with hunter numbers in the field, as in limit 2nd and 3rd rifle seasons, because at least in my part of the state, it is far from being a healthy herd.

If you are struggling to adapt your hunting, it doesn't mean any changes that affect other hunters are needed.

Where do all these young bulls that you ran into come from if the elk aren't breeding? Just because you are hearing elk first hand while checking other hunters' camps doesn't mean they aren't doing elk stuff in the other 99.9999~% of their habitat you don't have first hand knowledge of.

Is it more likely that those young bulls were near cows and a herd bull that moved off when you started wearing out your diaphragms? Or is it more likely those young bulls were totally clueless and hadn't seen another elk in weeks?

This concept that if a wild animal who is strictly built to survive and breed isn't fitting their behavior into how a hunter wants in the week they are out means that "sweeping changes" are needed is the road to a bad future. Trying to limit other hunters is not the solution to a person's own lack of success.

 

[ckleeves]

Things have been weird this year. I spent about 20 days in the high country in a couple units scouting/hunting deer. Which normally means a guy is tripping over elk the entire time but I really wasn’t this year. Spots that you can normally glass 50+ elk off of pre-season had 4-8 elk in them.

The one spot that did have a lot of elk in it they were tearing it up the evening before the opener. I probably heard 60 bugles that evening. It was a couple days before I was back in there and it was a ghost town, didn’t see or hear a single elk.

I’m not sure what is going on. Could be feed is pretty good everywhere from the top to the bottom and they are just super dispersed? I don’t think winterkill was a huge factor in the units I was in. It will be interesting to see what the rifle seasons bring. I know the processors were down on the number of elk they were taking in.

CPW also needs to figure out if they are going to limit all archery units. This pushing all OTC hunters into less and less units isn’t working. It’s not healthy or sustainable.

 

[Gerbdog]

YA know..... i always wonder how many other hunters are honest with what they are seeing / hearing in the field with other hunters too.... Personally i dont mind telling other hunters "yea, i heard bugles" ..... i sure as heck dont tell them where i was at... and if theyre gonna go through the trouble of hunting down my truck... i mean fine i guess....

i have to imagine a good portion of the time i ask how the hunts going and i get "dead quiet, aint heard or seen a hair on an elk all week" could very well actually mean.... yup! getting into bulls every day.

edit to add: i also always wonder how hard other hunters are hunting. I find it disconcerting when im leaving in the morning i dont even see a light on in someone's RV or people out moving about loading trucks.... if i'm already ready, driving in my truck to my hunting spot so i can hear bugles at first light, heck, before first light.... well i guess i always wish i knew where these other guys were finding elk closer to the camp spot so i dont have to wake up so damn early.

 

[Pony Soldier]

I haven't heard a single bugle this year. A few cows have wandered through feeding but no bulls. This week we cut out a trail that has been closed by downfall for more than 10-12 years. There were lots of rubs but none fresh. The wallows hadn't been used in some time. Lot's of beds. Lot's of fresh sign. It appears they either haven't had the rut yet or got it over with by the first of Sept.

One of the bow hunters we talked to said he had got into a herd of cows last week. The cows were active but the only bull was on the edge but not participating.

 

[Traindriver]

What does a delayed or minimally competitive rut do to the herd post rut? Are they healthier?