2018 for First Lite...30 new pieces.

[dplantz]

I would do it in the aerowool. You got plenty of great guys on this site that would be good candidates to test them too.

This just doesn't make sense to me. If it's ever been cold enough that I couldn't stand a little chill until my movement warmed me up (sub 20) it's never then gotten so warm during the day that the aerowool was too warm. That's the beauty of the aerowool. And if you're starting your day with base layer bottoms when it's over 20, you need to give it a try going without. It's really not the problem it might initially seem. Body warms up quick with even fairly low intensity movement. If gonna do it, it would make a lot more sense to me to do it with heavier bottoms. I could actually see it being useful for wanting to go without for hikes in to duck blind or deer stand, in near zero temps, and then wanting to add warmth for a truly long cold sit, but lack of durability of puffy pants, or lack of warmth from lack of puffing when layered underneath outer pants, makes them not make sense

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[baz77]

Is the catalyst wind proof???

 

[Desk Jockey]

This just doesn't make sense to me. If it's ever been cold enough that I couldn't stand a little chill until my movement warmed me up (sub 20) it's never then gotten so warm during the day that the aerowool was too warm. That's the beauty of the aerowool. And if you're starting your day with base layer bottoms when it's over 20, you need to give it a try going without. It's really not the problem it might initially seem. Body warms up quick with even fairly low intensity movement. If gonna do it, it would make a lot more sense to me to do it with heavier bottoms. I could actually see it being useful for wanting to go without for hikes in to duck blind or deer stand, in near zero temps, and then wanting to add warmth for a truly long cold sit, but lack of durability of puffy pants, or lack of warmth from lack of puffing when layered underneath outer pants, makes them not make sense

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Great. Your preferences seem to be well accommodated by current offerings. Beyond that, It is not clear to me what you think you are adding to the discussion of 2018 and potentially future product offerings from first lite.

As stated earlier, there are several posters interested in a product variation and the company’s founder took the feedback and indicated that they would explore the concept.

 

[Ryan Avery]

One other thing I will add. First lite has figured out how to make a hood. Nothing worse than a hood that's not functional.

 

[dotman]

This just doesn't make sense to me. If it's ever been cold enough that I couldn't stand a little chill until my movement warmed me up (sub 20) it's never then gotten so warm during the day that the aerowool was too warm. That's the beauty of the aerowool. And if you're starting your day with base layer bottoms when it's over 20, you need to give it a try going without. It's really not the problem it might initially seem. Body warms up quick with even fairly low intensity movement. If gonna do it, it would make a lot more sense to me to do it with heavier bottoms. I could actually see it being useful for wanting to go without for hikes in to duck blind or deer stand, in near zero temps, and then wanting to add warmth for a truly long cold sit, but lack of durability of puffy pants, or lack of warmth from lack of puffing when layered underneath outer pants, makes them not make sense

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Glad we don’t all have to be restricted to your opinion.

 

[Ryan Avery]

Is the catalyst wind proof???

It doesn't have a wind laminate. But the two-layer system breaks the wind extremely well. It much much warmer piece than I expected. It's not as warm as a Jetstream but is much lighter than the Jetstream. Sounds like the Catalyst will be substantially cheaper than the JS too.

My Large Jetstream is 26.5 oz

My Large Catalyst is 20 oz

 

[dplantz]

Great. Your preferences seem to be well accommodated by current offerings. Beyond that, It is not clear to me what you think you are adding to the discussion of 2018 and potentially future product offerings from first lite.

As stated earlier, there are several posters interested in a product variation and the company’s founder took the feedback and indicated that they would explore the concept.

I have an opinion on how a company I rely upon for gear spends their limited R&D dollars; as do you. No need to be so insular.

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[Kotaman]

It doesn't have a wind laminate. But the two-layer system breaks the wind extremely well. It much much warmer piece than I expected. It's not as warm as a Jetstream but is much lighter than the Jetstream. Sounds like the Catalyst will be substantially cheaper than the JS too.

My Large Jetstream is 26.5 oz

My Large Catalyst is 20 oz

It appears to be more similar to the Timberline (15.5) than the Jetstream? Or maybe it is a “tweener”?

 

[mfllood3800]

Great I have the Lite puffy, standard puffy, woodbury and the sanctuary.
Now A Chamberlin ?

The Sanctuary was just a big heavy jacket, but great for the wife who sits.
I have grown to love the woodbury with just a simple base underneath in late season, then I pull out the puffy vest or cirrius lite to sit as an added base.

But the new puffy looks like a great packer. It isn't replacing anything I have, it is filling the gap as a late season packer.
Now I can hike in the reg puffy, chama and merino base, and pull out the puffy.

As far as pants, I just use kanabs and a base underneath in late season. If it is really cold I use my prana zions with the felt liner and merino base under. Never been to hot or too cold.
I almost always use merino base in late season not just to insulate but to remove the moisture and stay stink free longer.

So many options, so little $$$$

 

[Ryan Avery]

It appears to be more similar to the Timberline (15.5) than the Jetstream? Or maybe it is a “tweener”?

Very much so a Tweener. I used the Jetstream because it's my favorite softshell. IMO the Timberline is not warm enough to take with me on any hunts. In the early season, I would much rather just take the flash and a core heavyweight hoody or the new hooded Halstead which I have not seen but might end up being best of show for me.

 

[MT_Wyatt]

Very much so a Tweener. I used the Jetstream because it's my favorite softshell. IMO the Timberline is not warm enough to take with me on any hunts. In the early season, I would much rather just take the flash and a core heavyweight hoody or the new hooded Halstead which I have not seen but might end up being best of show for me.

Both Sitka (timberline, mtn jacket, etc) and FL now seem be to avoiding pit zips on lighter soft shells........Would you mind commenting on your experience with that, as it relates to breathability? I’m assuming it worked quite well given it’s coming to market, but I know you won’t pull any punches.

I’m asking b/c from my experience I can’t see having a jacket like that without pit zips (seems to be a trend in order to cut weight), but I haven’t used a soft shell much since the old Sitka 90%. My black diamond softshell doesn’t have them. The new First Lite softshell has peaked my interest though.


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[SUMMIT75]

So I had the liberty to test these pieces out and have been getting slammed with PM's asking me every possibly detail on this system. First Lite did a great job on the video and description but I'll be happy to fill in any gaps for you guys and girls. I wanted to wait till FL themselves dropped the info on the system before I pitched in. I saw where Aron Snyder kind of got a little slap on the wrist for posting some stuff on Instagram a tad too early so I as a simple Product tester wasn’t gonna take any chances lol

On a side note, I have never recommended just getting something off of a whim...but this system fits into anyone's kit, some more than others and is a knock out of the ballpark. Save your money and take my word to just get ready to order it this spring!!!!

So here is the run down....

Temperature range: Sky is the limit, why? Coming from a mountaineering sport background, we use soft shells a ton. Reason is their is no limit to layering due to its “shell” properties. ie, Wind Cutting, Body temp retention and light moisture shedding. So in short, this will be with me from early season hunts on those cold windy evenings on a ridge when the sun goes down and using a simple base layer or Crew short sleeve to multiple layers underneath in late season Muley hunts.

Wind Cutting: Great!!! It’s not your heavy duty hard shell but a good direct wind that demands your attention will easily be foiled by this material.

Light rain/Snow shedding: Great again!! I was extremely impressed with the ability to really have even the smallest mist or drizzle “bead” off, snow was easily brushed off.

Noise: This is where I want to make a key point in this. The material is unlike any other soft shell material. Most soft shells have a “sheen” or slightly polished outer face fabric which provides all the desired qualities of a soft shell but gives it a slight “crunch” or papery response when raising arms, drawing bow,etc.. The catalyst material is like nothing else, it has a very soft touch which helps to reduce noise, increase breath ability while not sacrificing its soft shell properties.

Articulation/Cut: WOW!! So stinking comfortable with and without multiple layers. I am glad they did not integrate pit zips. I am afraid it would have limited its full articulation potential as well as the material really proves it does not need the extra heat dumping.

Durability: Here is the hot button topic!!! It was no mystery that durability was the most talked about subject on the page this last year. This is also my key factor in any purchase(vehicle,bows, guns,etc..) The construction of this jacket and pants, material, pocket location, zipper choice was very very intuitive. Mainly however was the stitching, never had a major issue, I beat the heck out of the jacket, greatly reinforced from previous offerings. All in all the pieces exceeded my expectations for durability and construction.

Material Thickness: Perfect middle ground? It’s thinner than the Northbranch yet not nearly as thin as say a Sitka Mountain Jacket, possibly a hair thicker than the Timberline jacket from Sitka. Roughly around a Arcteyx Gamma MX I would say. Super packable over the Northbranch jacket.

Cons: Honestly not many, personally I feel like First Lite was reading my “diary” lol But no piece is perfect, not the biggest fan of how tall the collar was or the elastic cuffs( always been a fan of Velcro cinch cuffs). Minor things really but do take into consideration these were samples so this all be null compared to the actual production line.


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[Ryan Avery]

MT_Wyatt

I'm the wrong person to ask, I hardly use the pit zips I have on the Jetstream or Kryptek Bora. I get hot very easy being a fat kid, Hell even when I was in great shape I run hot. So I will take the whole jacket off or like most days just start off in baselayers.

In reviewing the Bora I did use the pit zips while on several long hikes and there is no doubt they work.

But to your question. I think its cost and weight. Kenton can probably tell you exactly why they didn't use pit zips.


The reason I don't like wearing a softshells is the bulkiness. I always think, why the hell don't I just wear a puffy?? And that's the reason I like the Catalyst it feels very thin while wearing it, yet very warm. Hope that makes sense.

 

[Benjblt]

So I had the liberty to test these pieces out and have been getting slammed with PM's asking me every possibly detail on this system. First Lite did a great job on the video and description but I'll be happy to fill in any gaps for you guys and girls. I wanted to wait till FL themselves dropped the info on the system before I pitched in. I saw where Aron Snyder kind of got a little slap on the wrist for posting some stuff on Instagram a tad too early so I as a simple Product tester wasn’t gonna take any chances lol

On a side note, I have never recommended just getting something off of a whim...but this system fits into anyone's kit, some more than others and is a knock out of the ballpark. Save your money and take my word to just get ready to order it this spring!!!!

So here is the run down....

Temperature range: Sky is the limit, why? Coming from a mountaineering sport background, we use soft shells a ton. Reason is their is no limit to layering due to its “shell” properties. ie, Wind Cutting, Body temp retention and light moisture shedding. So in short, this will be with me from early season hunts on those cold windy evenings on a ridge when the sun goes down and using a simple base layer or Crew short sleeve to multiple layers underneath in late season Muley hunts.

Wind Cutting: Great!!! It’s not your heavy duty hard shell but a good direct wind that demands your attention will easily be foiled by this material.

Light rain/Snow shedding: Great again!! I was extremely impressed with the ability to really have even the smallest mist or drizzle “bead” off, snow was easily brushed off.

Noise: This is where I want to make a key point in this. The material is unlike any other soft shell material. Most soft shells have a “sheen” or slightly polished outer face fabric which provides all the desired qualities of a soft shell but gives it a slight “crunch” or papery response when raising arms, drawing bow,etc.. The catalyst material is like nothing else, it has a very soft touch which helps to reduce noise, increase breath ability while not sacrificing its soft shell properties.

Articulation/Cut: WOW!! So stinking comfortable with and without multiple layers. I am glad they did not integrate pit zips. I am afraid it would have limited its full articulation potential as well as the material really proves it does not need the extra heat dumping.

Durability: Here is the hot button topic!!! It was no mystery that durability was the most talked about subject on the page this last year. This is also my key factor in any purchase(vehicle,bows, guns,etc..) The construction of this jacket and pants, material, pocket location, zipper choice was very very intuitive. Mainly however was the stitching, never had a major issue, I beat the heck out of the jacket, greatly reinforced from previous offerings. All in all the pieces exceeded my expectations for durability and construction.

Material Thickness: Perfect middle ground? It’s thinner than the Northbranch yet not nearly as thin as say a Sitka Mountain Jacket, possibly a hair thicker than the Timberline jacket from Sitka. Roughly around a Arcteyx Gamma MX I would say. Super packable over the Northbranch jacket.

Cons: Honestly not many, personally I feel like First Lite was reading my “diary” lol But no piece is perfect, not the biggest fan of how tall the collar was or the elastic cuffs( always been a fan of Velcro cinch cuffs). Minor things really but do take into consideration these were samples so this all be null compared to the actual production line.


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I honestly wish I could trade in my Kuiu Guide pants and jacket for the Catalyst series. I like my Kuiu but it doesn't fit all my needs. The wind cutting ability, warmth, and mostly durability that you all are raving about has really peaked my interest. I've always felt that the Guide jacket was too breathable. As in it felt like a good stiff wind cuts through it a little too easily. Also, as a soft shell they are not that durable. Kuiu openly admits in one of there videos breaking down their different pants that the Tiburon, their lightest pant, is the most durable. Seriously?! More durable than the soft shell. I personally have put a hole in the Guide pants in Utah. I'm from Oregon and if I can put a hole through my Guides in Utah than I will definitely put a hole through them in Western Oregon. It was far too easy to do too.

Durability is the most important thing to me when I'm spending !hundreds!!! of dollars on gear.

 

[greyghostnw]

MT_Wyatt

I'm the wrong person to ask, I hardly use the pit zips I have on the Jetstream or Kryptek Bora. I get hot very easy being a fat kid, Hell even when I was in great shape I run hot. So I will take the whole jacket off or like most days just start off in baselayers.

In reviewing the Bora I did use the pit zips while on several long hikes and there is no doubt they work.

But to your question. I think its cost and weight. Kenton can probably tell you exactly why they didn't use pit zips.


The reason I don't like wearing a softshells is the bulkiness. I always think, why the hell don't I just wear a puffy?? And that's the reason I like the Catalyst it feels very thin while wearing it, yet very warm. Hope that makes sense.

what was your thoughts on the altitude? been interested since it came out but have not been able to stomach the price yet.....

 

[deadwolf]

MT_Wyatt

I'm the wrong person to ask, I hardly use the pit zips I have on the Jetstream or Kryptek Bora. I get hot very easy being a fat kid, Hell even when I was in great shape I run hot. So I will take the whole jacket off or like most days just start off in baselayers.

In reviewing the Bora I did use the pit zips while on several long hikes and there is no doubt they work.

But to your question. I think its cost and weight. Kenton can probably tell you exactly why they didn't use pit zips.


The reason I don't like wearing a softshells is the bulkiness. I always think, why the hell don't I just wear a puffy?? And that's the reason I like the Catalyst it feels very thin while wearing it, yet very warm. Hope that makes sense.

I’m in the same boat regarding soft shells, I almost never use them. I wear midlayers of merino or polar tech then if cold enough I’ll throw on a puffy. If it starts raining or snowing then my lightweight shell goes on. Soft shells might work for those that don’t see much precip, but the ones I have usually stay home.


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[deadwolf]

I honestly wish I could trade in my Kuiu Guide pants and jacket for the Catalyst series. I like my Kuiu but it doesn't fit all my needs. The wind cutting ability, warmth, and mostly durability that you all are raving about has really peaked my interest. I've always felt that the Guide jacket was too breathable. As in it felt like a good stiff wind cuts through it a little too easily. Also, as a soft shell they are not that durable. Kuiu openly admits in one of there videos breaking down their different pants that the Tiburon, their lightest pant, is the most durable. Seriously?! More durable than the soft shell. I personally have put a hole in the Guide pants in Utah. I'm from Oregon and if I can put a hole through my Guides in Utah than I will definitely put a hole through them in Western Oregon. It was far too easy to do too.

Durability is the most important thing to me when I'm spending !hundreds!!! of dollars on gear.

Interesting to hear your take on the Kuiu softshells. I have multiple pairs of Attack pants, one pair going on five seasons, as well as the Guide and I feel they are well built and very durable. There is a lot of brush to bust up here in the frozen north, and they’re my favorite pants of all I’ve tried. We are all damn lucky that we get to have such a smorgasbord of fine companies and they’re clothes to choose from!! I’m guessing most are like me and have a mish mash of gear from all of them : )

Looking forward to getting hands on the new first Lite and checking it out, especially the puffy


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[maninthemaze]

Ryan.... You stated that you wear a large Jetstream and a large on the catalyst, but you're a "fat kid."

What size suit coat do you wear. You know, the one jacket in your closet that you wear to funerals and weddings because it's really the same thing just different music.

Thanks

Just my 2 cents and worth the price charged.

 

[asac12]

I can understand the benefits of zip off base layers, but at the same time, Kuiu has inferior merino than FL and that's maybe the reason why FL doesn't offer it... yet. If the temperature swings that much to where you need to take off your base layer bottoms, then why wear a base layer bottom at all? Just start moving and you'll warm up pretty quickly. Wear the puffy pants if you stop and start glassing. One of the intended purposes of merino is regulating body temps. FL's merino in the hunting world is second to none. Zip offs somewhat defeats that purpose. FL's pants, obsidians and corrugates, are designed to regulate temps as well. I come from a backcountry snowboarding background and I typically forgo base layer bottoms because I'm hiking and overheat. With that said, I see the benefits of it and there's no need for the "zip off" camp to get salty over it. If Kuiu's zip offs work for you, then stick with it. That's my 2 cents.

 

[Benjblt]

Interesting to hear your take on the Kuiu softshells. I have multiple pairs of Attack pants, one pair going on five seasons, as well as the Guide and I feel they are well built and very durable. There is a lot of brush to bust up here in the frozen north, and they’re my favorite pants of all I’ve tried. We are all damn lucky that we get to have such a smorgasbord of fine companies and they’re clothes to choose from!! I’m guessing most are like me and have a mish mash of gear from all of them : )

Looking forward to getting hands on the new first Lite and checking it out, especially the puffy


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Good to hear. Maybe I just had some bad luck. . .but when you put a hole in your $150 pants after only wearing three days in not so brushy country it's a little irritating.

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