20 or 25 MOA solution for Howa Mini

[Marshfly]

I built my Howa Mini with an S&B 3-12x42 in DNZ rings. As people said I would, I ran out of elevation travel at 350 yards. I'm thinking that a 20-25 MOA mount solution would work to get me out to 600-700 yards.

What I really want is a Hawkins Long Range Hybrid for this rifle but that's not an option. So I'm looking for suggestions for a 2 piece, light 20-25 MOA mount or the lightest pic rail/ring setup that is reliable. Trying to keep this thing light. It's 6 pounds 10 ounces currently with the scope and rings.

 

[waspocrew]

Talley pic rail: 1.9 oz
Outer Impact rail: 2.0 oz
EGW pic rail: 2.5 oz

Those are the 3 pic rails that I could find with 20 MOA built in. Then you can add your light weight rings of your choosing.

Are you set on that particular scope? You might find some that have more internal travel, but may have a slight weight penalty.

 

[waspocrew]

For the record - I’m just waiting for my Howa mini to arrive tomorrow. Not sure the direction I’ll go in terms of glass. Ordered a Stockys VG, so lighter would be nice, but I won’t mind a few oz here or there.

 

[Marshfly]

Talley pic rail: 1.9 oz
Outer Impact rail: 2.0 oz
EGW pic rail: 2.5 oz

Those are the 3 pic rails that I could find with 20 MOA built in. Then you can add your light weight rings of your choosing.

Are you set on that particular scope? You might find some that have more internal travel, but may have a slight weight penalty.

Not interested at all in heavier than this scope. This is at the very top of acceptable actually. Otherwise it would just have a Tenmile on it like two of my other rifles. Especially going even heavier with a Pic rail.

Those are the same three I found for pic setups. But then I'm adding even more for rings. Hoping to avoid that if possible.

All that said, I don't "DO" pic rails on hunting rifles so that's why I'm here. I have zero knowledge of what's reliable and what's not. My rifles always have dedicated scopes on them that never move and I value simplicity above all so that's why I prefer simple ring mounts.

I know the Talley rings suck so I'm not inclined to go that direction. Are the Outer Impact rails good quality?

What's the best (reliability) lightweight pic rings? Not trying to break the bank here but also don't want boat anchors. Also need this done quickly with antelope season around the corner.

 

[waspocrew]

Not interested at all in heavier than this scope. This is at the very top of acceptable actually. Otherwise it would just have a Tenmile on it like two of my other rifles. Especially going even heavier with a Pic rail.

Those are the same three I found for pic setups. But then I'm adding even more for rings. Hoping to avoid that if possible.

All that said, I don't "DO" pic rails on hunting rifles so that's why I'm here. I have zero knowledge of what's reliable and what's not. My rifles always have dedicated scopes on them that never move and I value simplicity above all so that's why I prefer simple ring mounts.

I know the Talley rings suck so I'm not inclined to go that direction. Are the Outer Impact rails good quality?

What's the best (reliability) lightweight pic rings? Not trying to break the bank here but also don't want boat anchors. Also need this done quickly with antelope season around the corner.

You definitely have an objective for this rifle, but as you're finding - you're either limited to the total travel you have with your current set up (which isn't much, but is doable) or you're going to have to make some compromises on the weight.

Everyone's preferences are different... all but one of my rifles have pic rail and rings which provides way more flexibility in terms of mounting, but they are a little heavier. My preferred rings are ARC Mbrace, which are going to be way too heavy for your plans. I have two pairs of the Vortex pro rings (they are ~1.6 oz per ring) and they've held up well on my 7 SAUM and Seekins Element 6.5 PRC. There are plenty of other rings to look at and you can determine if they might fit your needs.

Regarding the Howa rails - I ordered the Outer Impact to give it a try. EGW has been around for a long time, but I've never used their products, so can't comment on reliability. With such little recoil in the 6 ARC, I think most of the pic rails and rings *should* work without a hitch.

Any of the rails above + light weight rings would probably come out to 5-7 oz for the combo. What do your current rings weigh? Subtract that and it might not be as much of a weight penalty as you think.

 

[Marshfly]

Found the Warne Mountain Tech base at 1.5 ounces. Maybe go with that plus the Farrell Low Rings. Also trying to keep this low like what I have.

Just weighed a set of DNZ 1" bases at 3.6oz. 30mm should be right at 4oz. Full mountain tech setup would be 5oz. There we go. Just need to know the height of the Mountain Tech rail to make sure that doesn't end up too high. The Farrell rings are similar weight/price but 0.14 lower.

 

[PC356]

MDT makes pic rails for the Minis. Integrated recoil lug design.
Not sure on weight but they are made in 20 MOA and possibly 30 I believe..?

 

[atmat]

I used to run the SB3-12 and love it. When you say you’re running out of elevation — what do you mean? You’re rev-limited on the turret anyway to 3.2 or 4.8mil (depending on model). Are you eating up so much elevation on zeroing that it’s cut into that?

Also, the scope has total elevation limited to 10.8mil (37 MOA). In theory, that means there’s 19.5 MOA above/below zero. So depending what elevation you used to zero, there’s a chance a 20 or 25 MOA mounting system won’t work for you.

 

[Marshfly]

I used to run the SB3-12 and love it. When you say you’re running out of elevation — what do you mean? You’re rev-limited on the turret anyway to 3.2 or 4.8mil (depending on model). Are you eating up so much elevation on zeroing that it’s cut into that?

Also, the scope has total elevation limited to 10.8mil (37 MOA). In theory, that means there’s 19.5 MOA above/below zero. So depending what elevation you used to zero, there’s a chance a 20 or 25 MOA mounting system won’t work for you.

I only have 1.9 Mil below a 100 yard zero and 1.3 Mil below a 200 yard zero before I hit the bottom end of the adjustment range. So it looks like I have 8.9 Mil to work with for a mounting system. 8.9 Mil equals 30 MOA left in the total adjustment so a 20 MOA mount should be perfect.

I have the new 4.8 Mil model and my dope puts me at 4.6 Mil to 600 yards where I live so it should perfect. Virtually all of my hunting is higher than where I sight in so that will decrease the travel I need for distance.

Can someone check my math if they care enough to. LOL.

 

[atmat]

So you’re saying when zero’d at 100, you only get 1.9mil on your turret before you’ve maxed out your elevation? Thats awful.

In your case, a 10-30MOA should be enough to get you the rest of your 4.8mils.

 

[Marshfly]

So you’re saying when zero’d at 100, you only get 1.9mil on your turret before you’ve maxed out your elevation? Thats awful.

In your case, a 10-30MOA should be enough to get you the rest of your 4.8mils.

It is awful. LOL. But I guess it's just the geometry of the Howa Mini with DNZ mounts.

 

[atmat]

It is awful. LOL. But I guess it's just the geometry of the Howa Mini with DNZ mounts.

I guess the only good news is that you have a wide range of inclination to choose from.

A 10MOA gets you just to 4.8mils; up to 30 just gives you more leeway. So hopefully that opens up options.

This exact issue is why I sold the scope. On my Tikka I was only left with 3.8mil on the turret after zeroing, and I didn’t want to give up the integrated tikka rail by adding a pic rail.

At the time, the UM 20MOA rings didn’t exist.

 

[Marshfly]

I guess the only good news is that you have a wide range of inclination to choose from.

A 10MOA gets you just to 4.8mils; up to 30 just gives you more leeway. So hopefully that opens up options.

This exact issue is why I sold the scope. On my Tikka I was only left with 3.8mil on the turret after zeroing, and I didn’t want to give up the integrated tikka rail by adding a pic rail.

At the time, the UM 20MOA rings didn’t exist.

The decision was between the S&B and the new Leupy MK4 and I just wasn't willing to take the risk on the Leupy for how we hunt. So I really want to make this work.

I have a rail and rings on the way so I'll know next week.

 

[atmat]

The decision was between the S&B and the new Leupy MK4 and I just wasn't willing to take the risk on the Leupy for how we hunt. So I really want to make this work.

I have a rail and rings on the way so I'll know next week.

I know you don’t want a heavier scope. But the RS1.2 is “only” 5oz heavier.

If the pic rail and ring combo is adding close to that weight but altering your preferred spacing/height, it may be worth switching.

 

[Marshfly]

I know you don’t want a heavier scope. But the RS1.2 is “only” 5oz heavier.

If the pic rail and ring combo is adding close to that weight but altering your preferred spacing/height, it may be worth switching.

I won't even swap my Tenmiles to that heavy ass scope. LOL.

This rifle is right at 5# bare. stuff adds up fast. And adding weight up high makes it feel crappy.

I will be adding 1 ounce max with what I'm swapping to and should be very close to the same height. Maybe a tenth higher.

 

[atmat]

I won't even swap my Tenmiles to that heavy ass scope. LOL.

Lol it’s 2oz heavier than your Tenmile. But I get it. I wish it was 20oz.

I will be adding 1 ounce max with what I'm swapping to and should be very close to the same height. Maybe a tenth higher.

Makes sense! Best of luck with the setup!

 

[Te Hopo]

If youre happy with your current rings and don't want to use a pic rail, how about shimming the rear ring higher and then lapping them?

Or if you're happy to use a pic rail but conscious of extra weight, how about having some creative milling done on the rail to remove metal where it's not needed?
Minimal loss I know but it could get you where you want to be

 

[Marshfly]

Ended up with the Outerlimits rail and the Warne Mountain Tech rings. Only a 1.3 ounce hit. Perfect. Now to get it mounted and sighted in. Rifle is still only 6# 11oz all in.

 

[RWT]

I am very curious how this works out. I just put a SWFA 2.5x10x32 on my mini with VG stock and I am still over 7 lbs. Warne MT rings and pic rail.

 

[Macintosh]

Curious how this works out, as that scope is limited to 4.8mils of travel by the turret, not by the internal adjustment—a rail may allow you to utilize all 4.8mils if you cant already, but I do not believe it will allow you to spin that turret past 4.8 regardless. Perhaps the shallowest rail you can get and a 200 yard zero would optimize the setup if you need to ahoot past 600?