1st timer out west, older: diy v. cost/benefit of guided

[Leverwalker]

Really hoping to get out west with my son over the next two years. My predisposition is DIY everything, but with an acknowledgment of age, and a body that is not going to be hanging in there forever, wondering peoples' thoughts on doing a sort of "training" guided hunt at least one year, to at least have a few fundamentals in place to come back and try future hunts with the rudimentary knowledge I gained on the guided hunt.

Beyond the unlikely cash flow to do repeated guided hunts, the urge is very strongly on the side of going it alone, as long as it's not just an idiot going in blind every year. So - thoughts on doing this, at least 1X with the "learning" guided hunt?

Thoughts on what this could reasonably cost?

In lieu of an actual hunt, are there any "training camps" devoted to, say, teaching western spot-and-stalk, analogous to the Benoit or Big Woods Bucks spring Maine camps, for tracking big woods whitetails?

 

[11boo]

DIY, could be done for as little as tags/fuel/food/etc. Guided, sky is the limit.

Of course you will be going in blind, same as I would if I came hunting your area. I wouldn’t count on killing an elk, or even seeing one. Call it a mountain adventure.

 

[WRO]

DIY, could be done for as little as tags/fuel/food/etc. Guided, sky is the limit.

Of course you will be going in blind, same as I would if I came hunting your area. I wouldn’t count on killing an elk, or even seeing one. Call it a mountain adventure.

Yup


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[Mtnmilsurp]

If you can trade money for time you might learn more doing multiple hunts or longer hunts DIY and to maximize your time afield over a single brief experience guided.

 

[Leverwalker]

DIY, could be done for as little as tags/fuel/food/etc. Guided, sky is the limit.

Of course you will be going in blind, same as I would if I came hunting your area. I wouldn’t count on killing an elk, or even seeing one. Call it a mountain adventure.

Thanks much. I should probably clarify a couple things, bit of background info.

Absolutely agree, the adventure is a thing unto itself and any chance I can to get out where I can, I feel a deep sense of gratitude. Spent some time in the mountains but it was never as "back" as I intend this trip and as many more as I can do, to be. Love all things alpine.

Longevity is likely not on my side, so hoping to do this with my son while I can.

Though nature itself is really important to me, so is the fair chase and taking of wild game. Like all of us, I know, just want to say the hunt and the wild kill is also in there for experiences I really want to do with my boy.

Finally, to the extent possible, I like us to be alone, doing it DIY, on our own wits and endurance. Comfort is nice, amenities aren't part of the equation, though. Comfort to the extent possible given the type of outing - whether car camping, base camping with the hunt, or, I hope, true back country hunting for days in the field with our homes on our backs.

Finally, we don't have a ton of means and with zero judgement on those who both can and do (choose to go in for fully guided hunts, plus whatever amenities they choose), I don't intend to go on multiple guided hunts over many years.

Finally, while I read constantly and watch videos as much as possible, also probably like most of us, I don't think it amounts to much compared to learning from an old hand. So - hoping to get some thoughts on a sort of "learning focused" guided hunt without a ton of options re comfort or amenities; and/or, like the tracking schools offered by the Benoit Brothers or Hal Blood's outfits in ME, some sort of "clinic" across several days, devoted to learning some things unique to the western hunt?

Sorry for the length - hope it gives a better picture of what I'm hoping for. Thanks.

 

[ArcherAdam]

Tough call. Many people do pay guides to go onto the same public land you may hunt and still do not see anything.

From experience--I would have $1k in your back pocket if you are successful especially on the last day (packer if shot deep, butcher if you have to rush home, and a night in a hotel to get a good night's rest before a long drive).

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[hiker270]

What type of hunt are you looking at? Bow or Rifle. Most western states require a license draw. Colorado has OTC archery and 2nd, 3rd week rifle. Colorado also has a lot of hunters because of this. DIY can be successful especially in archery season during the rut if you learn to cow call. My first elk hunt many years ago was a guided archery hunt in New Mexico. Learned a lot from a really good guide and killed my first bull a 6x6. Became totally addicted. Have since done many DIY hunts and some guided. DIY is very rewarding and a heck of a lot of work once your elk is on the ground. Many outfitter do drop camps that are a lot cheaper than a guided hunt. The ones I have done were on horseback and got my group back in farther than most hunters would walk. They provided tents and sleeping cots and packed out our elk. Only you can decide which option and how much you want to spend. A word of caution is once you start elk hunting its hard to stop. Good luck.

 

[AZ_Hunter_2000]

Really hoping to get out west with my son over the next two years. My predisposition is DIY everything, but with an acknowledgment of age, and a body that is not going to be hanging in there forever, wondering peoples' thoughts on doing a sort of "training" guided hunt at least one year, to at least have a few fundamentals in place to come back and try future hunts with the rudimentary knowledge I gained on the guided hunt.

Beyond the unlikely cash flow to do repeated guided hunts, the urge is very strongly on the side of going it alone, as long as it's not just an idiot going in blind every year. So - thoughts on doing this, at least 1X with the "learning" guided hunt?

Thoughts on what this could reasonably cost?

In lieu of an actual hunt, are there any "training camps" devoted to, say, teaching western spot-and-stalk, analogous to the Benoit or Big Woods Bucks spring Maine camps, for tracking big woods whitetails?

There is no issue with going guided to specifically reduce the learning curve. You can learn more in one week with a knowledgeable guide than months spread over years doing it DIY. I did the idiot routine and eventually had enough and did a guided bear hunt specifically to get questions answered. That was my 3rd best hunting purchase and I should have done it a lot sooner.

Nothing tops being able to ask a question and get an answer on the spot. Those god-like WKRs, influencers, podcast hosts, tv personalities, authors, etc are not there with you on your hunt to answer your questions. Lots of lost learning opportunities.

How to hunt has been handed down from generation to generation. It is asinine to have to literally rediscover how to hunt an animal, no matter how long it takes, just to be part of the RS Cool Kid Crew.

At the end of the day, folks should do what works for them.

 

[TaperPin]

Yes and no.
The guided hunt may or may not be anything like a diy experience. Guides rely heavily on the advantages horses bring into the mix and diy types do better not trying to compete head to head with them.

I‘ve come across two hunting guides from a neighboring state doing some personal hunting in my area since it’s an early rifle season. These guys had years of experience guiding, but were quite clueless and never made it into the better areas on that mountain range. Local knowledge is important and I would struggle a bit in their hunting area.

If you don’t hear of a diy hunting boot camp, keep asking around, especially near the area you want to hunt, and eventually you’ll find someone that will take you under their arm - the problem is you never know if they know what the heck they are talking about. Some wildlife photographers teach one on one and if you find one that hunts and enjoys the high country that could be a good opportunity.

It‘s pretty cheap to just go on a scouting trip and spend a few nights in a couple of different places. Everything you need will fit in a small car. Just get 4 miles from a horse trail and you can bet there will be few guys there during hunting season. Get a camp that’s up high and has an easy path from glassing spots to the tent in the dark. Just being there and observing deer and elk behavior as the sun comes up and goes down will teach you a lot. Also carefully walk some ridges and you’ll find deer that didn’t show up glassing. Walk through some elk bedding areas and see what you kick up.

Theres no law against backpacking during the hunting season - you can learn a lot from the behaviors and successes of the locals in an area.

 

[Leverwalker]

Az and Taper, wanted to say thanks. Excellent food for thought and really helpful. Thanks to everyone else as well.

 

[OXN939]

Longevity is likely not on my side, so hoping to do this with my son while I can.

You see dudes online talk about DIY being a more noble or legitimate way to get it done, but that's just not true. There is nothing wrong with getting a base of knowledge by doing a guided or semi guided hunt, especially with the parameters you mention. Also of note is that in a lot of states, your draw odds are a LOT better going with an outfitter in addition to simplifying the logistics a ton... for comparison, I've been planning the elk hunts I'm planning to do DIY for five years and don't anticipate being able to do them for several years more. Best of luck with the entire process.

 

[Kurts86]

If you look at it from purely a money perspective I think the cost per elk kill early on for a Nonresident DIY hunter actually favors going guided as being more economical. You are probably going to burn up 3-5 seasons going DIY before you kill and elk whereas with a guide it’s 1-2 trips.

I would have been money ahead to have gone guided early on. My DIY trips have cost between $1200 to $4k depending on if I drove/flew, hand a group to split costs and the lodging option. I didn’t kill an elk until my 4th season and was probably $10k deep into elk hunting excluding a small fortune in gear acquired. That said I learned a lot and can execute DIY elk hunts and be in the mix every year now.

The outlook for Nonresident elk hunting has really degraded in the last 5 years. Fewer tags for nonresidents, point creep and the internet lowering the entry level to go out west on an elk hunt makes things more challenging.

 

[Jaquomo]

One bit of guidance - I have guided and hunted private ranches and public land. 49 years worth of a mix of both, lodges, horse packing, all of the above. If you go on a private ranch guided hunt you may learn a hell of a lot about how to hunt unpressured private ranch elk. But that is a diametrically opposite experience than most public land hunting. And it will cost you $8K and up for a week. I used to have hunters ask me to teach them what they need to know to kill elk on their own when guiding rhe ranches. Hard to explain the difference unless they have also hunted public DIY and gone days withiut seeing or hearing an elk , but I did my best..

Of you can go on a wilderness public land horseback hunt, but again, you will be hunting unpressured elk that you may not have access to unless you backpack hunt.

That said, a knowledgable guide who is willing to teach you (not a cranky old goat or the 21 year old ranch hand guiding to earn a little extra in the fall) can shorten the learning curve with understanding elk habits, where to look for them and when, how and when they move, etc.. But you won't know what kind of guide you're getting until that first day...

 

[TaperPin]

One of the best things about backcountry hunting is experiencing that piece of wilderness. I just thought back to a 16 yr old that had never been in the backcountry and how our trip turned into a great experience. Choose an area that is worth going to even without hunting. In any state the best hunting will be away from easy horse access. We looked at a forest service map and found a little no name lake to camp at 5 miles in and 2 miles off a horse trail that was really hard to get to even on foot. I hadn’t been there, but it looked like a spot others would ignore. It was also turned out to be full of brookies that obliterated our small supply of fishing flies. He probably still backpacks into that spot even if he’s never killed anything there, but it was thick with elk.

 

[Mike D Texas]

I am at that stage of life where I have the money but not necessarily the time, physical condition or gear to do DIY hunts.

I’m looking at several hunts over the next 10 years so productivity is what I’m looking for.

There are reasonably priced guided hunts out there and if you are looking to have higher odds of killing, then guided is the way to go.


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[Leverwalker]

Was away on a short backpacking trip guys. Just wanted to say thanks for the additional information. I'm going to give the true backcountry experience my all, as far off normal access as I can reasonably accomplish. I appreciate the perspectives on the "true costs" of trying DIY over time, v. a guided hunt, Kurt, hadn't even thought of that, and Jaquomo, for your thoughts from your invaluable experience as a guide. It helps keen the edge as to what I'm after, though of course things may change - spirit willing, body weak - by the time we're ready. I'm training for mountain hunting, though it's a war to get at it each and every day. It's sinking in that guided or not, the old adage "it's the pursuit, not the outcome" that will be the way. I hope things come together to find a guide to take us backcountry into unpressured areas, but if not, it's a win.

Many thanks to everyone once again. It's really helped.

Edit: I shouldn't say "unpressured" - I know on public land it's always something that will have to be accounted for, and Jaquomo you pointed it up helpfully. To be honest in our northwoods, for many reasons, I've been spoiled in this way and at least when we last went several years ago, basically alone. I imagine learning to use pressure to one's advantage is going to have to be part of the learning curve in the western mountains.

What I meant to say is on public land, but I think Taper said it really well - "Choose an area that is worth going to even without hunting..." and "In any state the best hunting will be away from easy horse access...it looked like a spot others would ignore...", and others have emphasized as well. So, trying to hunt in less-trafficked areas.

 

[CAElkhunter]

Going guided doesn't guarantee success. I go guided because they do all the things I don't want to do.
Set up camp, cook, roll his sleaves up when it is 10 below. Have all the gear, horses etc necessary to make
retrieval as smooth as possible. I am 62 and don't need to spend 3 days packing a bull out to feel like a real Elk hunter.

hats off to anyone who does it DIY. I just don't choose to do so.

 

[JakeSCH]

I honestly really enjoy both. They are just different experiences and depends what you want out of it.

 

[Leverwalker]

Going guided doesn't guarantee success. I go guided because they do all the things I don't want to do.
Set up camp, cook, roll his sleaves up when it is 10 below. Have all the gear, horses etc necessary to make
retrieval as smooth as possible. I am 62 and don't need to spend 3 days packing a bull out to feel like a real Elk hunter.

hats off to anyone who does it DIY. I just don't choose to do so.

I get it, and packing out is something I will have to make plans for - same age as you. And I certainly don't think of one or the other as somehow lesser or "real," just a kind of quest I've long wanted and want to accomplish before my roll on the planet is up. I know the time is coming when it won't be possible, for many reasons, so it's calling.

 

[Leverwalker]

I honestly really enjoy both. They are just different experiences and depends what you want out of it.

Hey Jake, just noticed your locale. USN basic and A school there, corpsman. Raised in Ventura, avid diver off the Channel Islands and of course, lived in the ocean, surfer. Miss it!