1911’s in general, 9mm versions specifically

[43.6N]

That makes sense, and is how I've largely been wired too - especially with what you could call practical precision/combat precision/quick precision, etc. Though, admittedly, I've historically overfocused on precision, but recently had a pretty big breakthrough on the speed side of things. That's why when @Formidilosus mentioned "speed bullseye" it caught my attention. He's shared FBI pistol-instructor qual standards before, which sound like this and similar to the Defoor video you posted, but I was wondering if speed bullseye was an actual thing, or if he had set drills and standards he'd developed for his own priorities on that skillset.

I personally think it's a critical concept, and a largely neglected one. Especially for anyone who might need to use a handgun outside of the classic conversation-distance encounters, or who can't afford risking the dangers of anything other than an instant stop to a threat. But it just doesn't seem to get much attention - guys are either banging-away at close in go-fast stuff, or executing on B8s at combat-glacial pace. That video you posted is a great blend.

I don't really have an exact term for it, but this is what I mean by quick precision - current drill is 5yds, cut color with a hit, under 2 seconds draw and fire. But I'd be very interested in learning of others that get at speed precision, especially from the draw. Right now, most of my shots are hovering around 1.5 seconds. The ace is obviously a cherry-picked example, and the 3s are more typical, but on any given day about half of my draw-and-fire shots are cutting the spot under par time, with about 90% of the rest within a bullet's width of touching color:

@RockAndSage @Dave0317 good drills, thanks for posting.
“Speed-bullseye” I think is going to be similar in ethos to reports on how @Formidilosus coaches up the students in the S2H courses. IE “on demand” and “under stress”

Heart rate probably needs to be elevated. And there probably needs to be a time standard.

My personal bias: since getting introduced to USPSA 3 months ago (because of this thread) the combo of footwork and accuracy is what jumped out in my mind when I hear “speed bullseye”

I’ve been hammering the following drill religiously. And, I’ve got myself down to a consistent 25 seconds. The single fastest time I’ve been able to find someone complete it in was 18 and change. So until someone can post a faster time, I would say that’s probably the 100th percentile.

Figure 5 drill.

10” plate (but “speed bullseye” would probably require a B8 or 10-8 fbi scoring target)
-center position is 15yds.
-2 near positions are 10yds
-2 far positions are 20yds.
-single shot from each position, returning to center each time. 9shots total.

 

[id_jon]

@RockAndSage @Dave0317 good drills, thanks for posting.
“Speed-bullseye” I think is going to be similar in ethos to reports on how @Formidilosus coaches up the students in the S2H courses. IE “on demand” and “under stress”

Heart rate probably needs to be elevated. And there probably needs to be a time standard.

My personal bias: since getting introduced to USPSA 3 months ago (because of this thread) the combo of footwork and accuracy is what jumped out in my mind when I hear “speed bullseye”

I’ve been hammering the following drill religiously. And, I’ve got myself down to a consistent 25 seconds. The single fastest time I’ve been able to find someone complete it in was 18 and change. So until someone can post a faster time, I would say that’s probably the 100th percentile.

Figure 5 drill.

10” plate (but “speed bullseye” would probably require a B8 or 10-8 fbi scoring target)
-center position is 15yds.
-2 near positions are 10yds
-2 far positions are 20yds.
-single shot from each position, returning to center each time. 9shots total.

This will be my homework this week, as well as Joey Saurlands recent drill here: https://www.instagram.com/goshootwin/reel/DWpL98hEXmI/

 

[RockAndSage]

@RockAndSage @Dave0317 good drills, thanks for posting.
“Speed-bullseye” I think is going to be similar in ethos to reports on how @Formidilosus coaches up the students in the S2H courses. IE “on demand” and “under stress”

Heart rate probably needs to be elevated. And there probably needs to be a time standard.

My personal bias: since getting introduced to USPSA 3 months ago (because of this thread) the combo of footwork and accuracy is what jumped out in my mind when I hear “speed bullseye”

I’ve been hammering the following drill religiously. And, I’ve got myself down to a consistent 25 seconds. The single fastest time I’ve been able to find someone complete it in was 18 and change. So until someone can post a faster time, I would say that’s probably the 100th percentile.

Figure 5 drill.

10” plate (but “speed bullseye” would probably require a B8 or 10-8 fbi scoring target)
-center position is 15yds.
-2 near positions are 10yds
-2 far positions are 20yds.
-single shot from each position, returning to center each time. 9shots total.

Oh man, that's a great one, especially for cardio elevation and conditioning to move out with speed. How are the positions set up exactly? Is it like a 5-spot on dice? And, are the distances to the target itself, or to the target's line?

 

[43.6N]

Oh man, that's a great one, especially for cardio elevation and conditioning to move out with speed. How are the positions set up exactly? Is it like a 5-spot on dice? And, are the distances to the target itself, or to the target's line?

Just like a 5 spot on a dice.
10, 15, and 20 yd target lines
Each of the 4 corners are 10yds from the next corner. So 10x10 square.
Run the positions in whatever order gets you the fastest time. But have to start in center, and move back to center after each shot.

 

[RockAndSage]

Just like a 5 spot on a dice.
10, 15, and 20 yd target lines
Each of the 4 corners are 10yds from the next corner. So 10x10 square.
Run the positions in whatever order gets you the fastest time. But have to start in center, and move back to center after each shot.
View attachment 1048472

This is awesome, thanks for drawing that out. What a kick-ass drill.

 

[Lonewolf72]

I couldn't resist the prices on these Springfield Armory "Vault" (demo) guns, and was able to snag this Emissary 9mm 1911 for $599! So my urge to pickup a 1911/2011 should be quelled for now. Anyone interested in the vault guns should check them out at Florida Gun Exchange or GunBuyer.

 

[Dobermann]

So my urge to pickup a 1911/2011 should be quelled for now.

Kids these days say the darndest things ...

 

[TradLife406]

View attachment 1048551
I couldn't resist the prices on these Springfield Armory "Vault" (demo) guns, and was able to snag this Emissary 9mm 1911 for $599! So my urge to pickup a 1911/2011 should be quelled for now. Anyone interested in the vault guns should check them out at Florida Gun Exchange or GunBuyer.

Oooooo

 

[2Stamp]

My local store has a used Ed Brown 1911, commander sized 9mm for sale. Cool little pistol.

 

[Billogna]

My local store has a used Ed Brown 1911, commander sized 9mm for sale. Cool little pistol.

So go get it so we can see!

 

[2Stamp]

So go get it so we can see!

I'll just take a pic for you (I work at the store). It's the CCO 9LW model.

 

[Billogna]

I'll just take a pic for you (I work at the store). It's the CCO 9LW model.

very nice!! Thank you!

 

[RockAndSage]

I'll just take a pic for you (I work at the store). It's the CCO 9LW model.

I didn't know Ed Brown was building 1911s with external extractors now - that's great to see.

 

[Lonewolf72]

Oooooo

I wasn't in on one of these at it's regular retail price ($1100-1200?), but I think Springfield has been closing this line out for awhile now, so deals can be found. Seems nicely put-together with a smooth, tightly-fitted slide and barrel with no rattling. I like the aggressive front/backstrap and thin VG grips. Hopefully, she's a shooter. Figured this was a good place for me to start rather than going Turkish. Would like to add a magwell.

 

[Formidilosus]

I didn't know Ed Brown was building 1911s with external extractors now - that's great to see.

More than that. They also have sections of the frame rails removed to lower friction and increase slide velocity for 9mm. A really well designed pistol. If they had classical slide serrations and 20lpi checkering I’d have one.

 

[Formidilosus]

Is this an actual thing,

I wish.

or is it what you call a certain kind of precision at-speed you train for?

This. Think shooting a USPSA match but only taking head shots- and trying to win doing so. Or if USPSA was scored as 5 points for A zone, 1 point for C zone, -5 points for D zone, -30 points for a miss, and a match DQ for hitting a no shoot.

Any specific drills or standards for it you'd share?

The FBI bullseye course at 290’ish points or higher, Bill drills to the head with no misses allowed. The No Fail Drill posted is good. Basically surgically shooting 4-6” targets from contact to 25+ yards as fast as possible, where misses are not allowed.


My choice in carry pistol is based on an absolute no fail scenario: what is the max distance that you would take a shot at right now, on an 8” target with the thing you love most 1” from it. Whatever pistol has the longest range- that’s the one to carry.

For examples, for me right now:

Glock 19 or 17, Gen 3/4= 16 yards.

G19 or 17 gen 5 or M models= 25 yards.

Sig M18/17= 22-24 yards.

Tricked out Sig M18/17= 26-27 yards.

Staccato P= 32’ish yards

Springfield Pro/custom 1911 9mm that I’m currently carrying= 40+ yards.


I might have posted this before- this was last July during a training day. Over 160 rounds fired in 10 round strings from 25 yards, some were timed, some not, two handed freestyle, as well as left and right hand only: no misses. Springfield Professional.

 

[kad11]

One issue with this Kimber 2k11 is she doesn't like to chamber hollow points off a full mag. If only load 18 she does ok.
Ordered a Taran Tactical check mate 20 rounder. No issues whatsoever. But the Check Mate mags that make with the gun seem to sit the first round a little funky.
No issues with ball ammo.

So looks like I'll buy another $100 TT mag for carry.

The Springfield prodigy 26 rounder worked great at the range. A cheaper option for fun.

Red dirt trigger came in this week.
MJD grip comes Monday and my lighter mag release spring comes this next week too. We'll see if this Glock window licker can break down a 1911 and put it back together properly. I'm a little nervous.

Any thoughts for a ambi safety for small hands and short thumbs? I want to try a wider one. But I'm worried because they all say "minor fitment required". How bad can it be?

I put an ambi safety in my Bul Armory 1911 a few weeks ago. This was my first go at installing a new safety and it wasn't difficult - just go slow on the filing and check fitment often.

 

[RockAndSage]

They also have sections of the frame rails removed to lower friction and increase slide velocity for 9mm.

That's some of the coolest gun design news I've heard in quite awhile.

 

[RockAndSage]

I wish.




This. Think shooting a USPSA match but only taking head shots- and trying to win doing so. Or if USPSA was scored as 5 points for A zone, 1 point for C zone, -5 points for D zone, -30 points for a miss, and a match DQ for hitting a no shoot.




The FBI bullseye course at 290’ish points or higher, Bill drills to the head with no misses allowed. The No Fail Drill posted is good. Basically surgically shooting 4-6” targets from contact to 25+ yards as fast as possible, where misses are not allowed.


My choice in carry pistol is based on an absolute no fail scenario: what is the max distance that you would take a shot at right now, on an 8” target with the thing you love most 1” from it. Whatever pistol has the longest range- that’s the one to carry.

For examples, for me right now:

Glock 19 or 17, Gen 3/4= 16 yards.

G19 or 17 gen 5 or M models= 25 yards.

Sig M18/17= 22-24 yards.

Tricked out Sig M18/17= 26-27 yards.

Staccato P= 32’ish yards

Springfield Pro/custom 1911 9mm that I’m currently carrying= 40+ yards.


I might have posted this before- this was last July during a training day. Over 160 rounds fired in 10 round strings from 25 yards, some were timed, some not, two handed freestyle, as well as left and right hand only: no misses. Springfield Professional.
View attachment 1048997

So, no sh*t, this is just about the best pistol-performance post I've ever read on a forum, if someone actually cares about realities in stopping threats with handguns. And I can hear the howls of outraged derision from half the "tactical" instructor and gun-nerd worlds from here. It's...beautiful.

The capability differences in the different models was particularly illuminating. It makes sense anecdotally, but man, what a great way to slay sacred cows by gathering that much personal-experience data by platform.

Your post reminds me of that no-fail Bill Drill eval you suggested a few weeks back, where a miss or going over time had career-ending consequences. Makes me wonder if something like this could be added to the no-fail Bill Drill eval. Someone claiming competence with a handgun gets asked for their no-fail Bill time, as well as both their time and max distance for 10rds on a 4 or 6 inch target, and then have to do it cold, on-demand. That's a pretty hard-core, well balanced pair of evals that would sober up a hell of a lot of people. If nothing else, it sets a standard of knowing one's own no-fail limitations, in a very objective and measurable way.

 

[Fatcamp]

That USPSA scoring would be a hoot.

We have played around with our pistols waaaay out there on badlands formations. It's actually pretty amazing at how far a pistol bullet will fly accurately.

For sure, at 150 yards a Glock will hit a man size target with every shot. The idea that putting a little distance between you and a shooter makes you safe is false. It sure changed my view on it anyway.