1911’s in general, 9mm versions specifically

[NSI]

Is there any benefit of one vs the other in “shootability”?

Bull barrels have more weight further out on the lever and theoretically reduce muzzle rise. They can also be easier to disassemble for the uninitiated.

-J

 

[RockAndSage]

In theory if you shoot it enough to wear out a bushing, you can easily replace the bushing. Or fit the bushing for more accuracy. Whereas a bull barrel if you wear the slide out, you’ll have to have it machined for a bushing or retire it.

By the time anything like that could possibly happen, you'll have fired $50,000 in ammo. It's a non-issue in reality.

Is there any benefit of one vs the other in “shootability”?

It seems companies are able to accurize a bull-barrel/cone-barrel system easier than a bushing setup, but they're not mutually exclusive. As @NSI said, there's a weight difference and it might affect muzzle-flip in some setups. And they might be a bit better for porting, as the barrel's OD is closer to the slide's ports, and would result in a bit less fouling getting inside the slide and blasting grit all over the friction surfaces. But honestly, someone would probably have to have a lot of time on handguns to be able really tell the difference in how a bull-barrel vs bushing setup feels.

 

[RockAndSage]

View attachment 946717
The allure of the 1911 is strong - finally succumbed and joined the club. I decided my first one ought to be classically styled and in .45 ACP:
Springfield Armory Loaded Government 5”
Swapped to a G.I. recoil spring plug, VZ grips, and added the Stan Chen SI magwell. A stack of Wilson Combat mags and a case of 230 grain ball. Runs great.

Biggest smile from a new gun…probably ever.

Ya know...something that's pretty cool about the time we live in, is this gun would have been a fairly expensive custom job in the 1990s, and today it's a stock, very affordable option.

Almost every one of these options would have been at least $100-150 fitted and installed, by a skilled gunsmith, some of which would have included machining, almost all of which would have required hand-fitting with stones, files, jigs, and other specialized tools:

1) Slide cuts and installation of Novak tritium sights
2) Machining front slide serrations
3) Extended ambi thumb safety
4) Beavertail grip safety
5) Match-grade barrel
6) Match-grade barrel bushing
7) Full-length guide rod
8) Lightweight hammer
9) Adjustable trigger
10 ) Trigger job (work on hammer, sear, disconnector, sear-spring, etc)
11) Checkered, flat mainspring housing
12) Re-bluing slide, frame, small parts

About the only additional thing that would have made this a "full house" custom job would be checkering the front strap. It easily would have been a $1500-2000 custom job 30 years ago.

 

[alpine_troop]

Ya know...something that's pretty cool about the time we live in, is this gun would have been a fairly expensive custom job in the 1990s, and today it's a stock, very affordable option.

Almost every one of these options would have been at least $100-150 fitted and installed, by a skilled gunsmith, some of which would have included machining, almost all of which would have required hand-fitting with stones, files, jigs, and other specialized tools:

1) Slide cuts and installation of Novak tritium sights
2) Machining front slide serrations
3) Extended ambi thumb safety
4) Beavertail grip safety
5) Match-grade barrel
6) Match-grade barrel bushing
7) Full-length guide rod
8) Lightweight hammer
9) Adjustable trigger
10 ) Trigger job (work on hammer, sear, disconnector, sear-spring, etc)
11) Checkered, flat mainspring housing
12) Re-bluing slide, frame, small parts

About the only additional thing that would have made this a "full house" custom job would be checkering the front strap. It easily would have been a $1500-2000 custom job 30 years ago.

So true. I added some nice-to-haves and personal touches, but out of the box it’s an excellent package of features and performance for the price. That was the driving factor in my decision, especially given that as a lefty I wanted the ambi safety.

The value proposition of some of the modern factory 1911s really is incredible. I already know I’ll grab a 9mm someday haha

 

[Southernfried]

So for those that have tried them, which would ya pick, the Girsan Witness 2311C or Tisas Carry DS 9? Ive looked on their webpages, and really can not tell much difference between them, besides the Knoxville TN stamping and the EAA stamping on the Girsan, I thought they were made at the same place in Turkey? Just stamped differently when they got here ? Or am I getting them mixed up with someone else. Now Kimber and Sig both are coming out with other 2011, 2311, etc though quite a bit higher price wise. Thanks!

 

[RockAndSage]

I don't have experience with either, but broadly, it seems Tisas have a bit better quality in terms of reliability, from everything I'm hearing.

 

[CaptArab]

I sold my tisas. I hate the EPS footprint and didn't want to mess with getting it re-milled.

Was a decent gun but didn't want to fool with the few small tweaks needed to push it over the edge.

So many people are jumping to Glock mag stacattos id probably try to grab a 2011 mag pattern stacatto off the used market.

 

[Billogna]

I'm wondering are Glock mags that much more reliable in a double stack platform?? Or is it because Glock mags are cheaper?? Or that a lot of people already have some laying around?? perhaps all of the above??

 

[Reddish]

I'm wondering are Glock mags that much more reliable in a double stack platform?? Or is it because Glock mags are cheaper?? Or that a lot of people already have some laying around?? perhaps all of the above??

I think cost and availability of Glock mags.

 

[Southernfried]

I think cost and availability of Glock mags.

I think this as well, even Sig on their new 2011 they just came out with uses P320 mags.....guessing they think there will be plenty of those not being used I kid....lol

 

[Dobermann]

So for those that have tried them, which would ya pick, the Girsan Witness 2311C or Tisas Carry DS 9? Ive looked on their webpages, and really can not tell much difference between them, besides the Knoxville TN stamping and the EAA stamping on the Girsan, I thought they were made at the same place in Turkey? Just stamped differently when they got here ? Or am I getting them mixed up with someone else. Now Kimber and Sig both are coming out with other 2011, 2311, etc though quite a bit higher price wise. Thanks!

A couple of reviews online showing functionality issues with Girsans.

For a comparatively small jump up in cost compared to quality received, perhaps take a look at Bul Armory. I have one and am impressed so far.

Have a Tisas on order for another use, so will be able to post comparison observations here in a few weeks' time.

 

[NSI]

A couple of reviews online showing functionality issues with Girsans.

For a comparatively small jump up in cost compared to quality received, perhaps take a look at Bul Armory. I have one and am impressed so far.

Have a Tisas on order for another use, so will be able to post comparison observations here in a few weeks' time.

Trying to figure out if the upcoming Bul Tac Comp Pro will be a scaled design or a larger 2011 grip. All else equal I’d rather support Bul than the Turks, but a threaded black DLC Full grip Acro Staccato C is headed my way for serious work.

-J

 

[Dobermann]

Trying to figure out if the upcoming Bul Tac Comp Pro will be a scaled design or a larger 2011 grip. All else equal I’d rather support Bul than the Turks, but a threaded black DLC Full grip Acro Staccato C is headed my way for serious work.

-J

@Formidilosus posted earlier about a slim-mag Bul, but all of the schematics I can see on their site are either single or double-stack ...

 

[Southernfried]

Since we talked about the Sig P320 and the grip from Brouwer grip module in this thread, I thought I would update the latest news. According to Colion Noir, Sig M18 the airmans M18 in fact did not discharge on its own, his friend pointed it at him, accidently pulled the trigger, and then got his buddies that were there to lie for him. Since then, he was arrested, charged, and later, killed himself over it. All because they were playing around with a loaded firearm....

 

[Dobermann]

Since we talked about the Sig P320 and the grip from Brouwer grip module in this thread, I thought I would update the latest news. According to Colion Noir, Sig M18 the airmans M18 in fact did not discharge on its own, his friend pointed it at him, accidently pulled the trigger, and then got his buddies that were there to lie for him. Since then, he was arrested, charged, and later, killed himself over it. All because they were playing around with a loaded firearm....

Glad I gave you heads up in August? (https://rokslide.com/forums/threads...ions-specifically.406722/page-15#post-4273410)

 

[jkoehle1]

Since we talked about the Sig P320 and the grip from Brouwer grip module in this thread, I thought I would update the latest news. According to Colion Noir, Sig M18 the airmans M18 in fact did not discharge on its own, his friend pointed it at him, accidently pulled the trigger, and then got his buddies that were there to lie for him. Since then, he was arrested, charged, and later, killed himself over it. All because they were playing around with a loaded firearm....

Ya dont say. Weird.

Its too bad that clickbait guntubers and glock riders will be defunded of likes and clicks.

 

[Southernfried]

One of the better interviews of Sig a couple of days ago Colion Noir interviews Sig on the 320......Im still waiting lol

 

[Dobermann]

My Tisas 1911 Raider is in. Haven't had it out to the range yet, but initial reactions are a mixed grill: it's more tight-fitting, and well-made all round than I think I was expecting.

But while my Bul 1911 initially felt 'agricultural' (my only references were a CZs), the Tisas feels significantly clunkier than the Bul. And having shot the Bul more, I'm more used to it / the 1911 'feel', manual of arms, etc overall.

So, after handling the Bul, the Tisas feels rougher, less refined, and slightly unbalanced. The thumb safety's top rear section protrudes slightly towards the grip and causes a hotspot if riding the safety. It would need grinding down for frequent and/or high-volume shooting.

The slide is significantly heavier to cycle manually - it needs a good tug, and is then sluggish on the return, pausing/skipping soon after slide release. This hasn't changed after a hundred or so manual cyclings / dryfire, and oiling. Will be interesting to see how it goes when actually shooting.

Overall, I'm impressed by the apparent quality for the money - as long as it functions well. But even if it does, from what I've seen so far, I personally am not likely to buy another Tisas, and will consider Bul my 'budget'-level 1911 manufacturer - I haven't had higher-end 1911s, but the one I do have works well so far, and is streaks ahead of the Tisas.

The usual caveats - not much range time so far, not many rounds, YMMV, etc etc.

 

[RockAndSage]

The slide is significantly heavier to cycle manually - it needs a good tug, and is then sluggish on the return, pausing/skipping soon after slide release.

This isn't uncommon in either rougher-machined guns, or really tight guns, including some done by top gunsmiths. It's a bit of a bell-curve that way, with the quality on either end showing that behavior. It's generally related to tight locking-lug lockup and the back of the barrel hood pressing against the breach-face, the friction from the bottom of the firing-pin stop where its radius is in contact with the hammer, and where the disconnector first contacts the bottom of the breach-face on the forward stroke of the slide. Stutters and the slide slowing down are often alleviated with wear and/or really good lubrication in these places.

If you can secure a lightweight grease in NZ, those are 3 spots that benefit a great deal from it being applied to them. TW-25B or cherry balmz are the best I've tried. You want it about the consistency of a lotion, so a #0 grease. You can also cut down a heavier #2 lithium-complex automotive grease by adding oil and stirring really well, to get it down to that consistency. Only thing to watch out for with that is if you're in really cold weather, to use a 0W-something oil, but in most climates you're good-to-go with whatever motor oil you're using in your vehicle. That same grease applied to all your friction surfaces will make it feel like a different gun.

 

[Dobermann]

This isn't uncommon in either rougher-machined guns, or really tight guns, including some done by top gunsmiths. It's a bit of a bell-curve that way, with the quality on either end showing that behavior. It's generally related to tight locking-lug lockup and the back of the barrel hood pressing against the breach-face, the friction from the bottom of the firing-pin stop where its radius is in contact with the hammer, and where the disconnector first contacts the bottom of the breach-face on the forward stroke of the slide. Stutters and the slide slowing down are often alleviated with wear and/or really good lubrication in these places.

If you can secure a lightweight grease in NZ, those are 3 spots that benefit a great deal from it being applied to them. TW-25B or cherry balmz are the best I've tried. You want it about the consistency of a lotion, so a #0 grease. You can also cut down a heavier #2 lithium-complex automotive grease by adding oil and stirring really well, to get it down to that consistency. Only thing to watch out for with that is if you're in really cold weather, to use a 0W-something oil, but in most climates you're good-to-go with whatever motor oil you're using in your vehicle. That same grease applied to all your friction surfaces will make it feel like a different gun.

Thanks. I'd been using regular gun oil (had seen your earlier posts about grease but hadn't tracked some down yet). Will get some grease, keep dry firing, and try to get out for a good range session soon. Cheers!