1911’s in general, 9mm versions specifically

[RockAndSage]

Form - your thoughts on adjustable rear sights on carry 1911s?

They actually discuss this exact issue in the Delta 1911s video I linked to above - the unit largely went over to Bomars after talking to top competitors and hearing the same thing Form just said. About the only reliability/durability concessions made on some of them were to bury them just a bit forward of the back of the slide, to have a small bumper of slide protecting the rear of the sight - similar to what you see with Form's 1911.

More commonly, you saw the Bomars buried into the slides as far back as possible, like on this Para-Ordnance of mine. This is peak 1994, btw - FBI's HRT was having Les Baer build one similar on double-stack Para-Ordnance frames, just without the carry-comp, stippling, and IIRC, they had Novaks instead of the Bomars. Unfortunately, the project didn't go well, largely because of mag issues as I understand it. Eventually that got traced afterward to insufficient spring power, but it caused some pretty bad reliability problems, and they went in a different direction. I've got extra-power wolfs in my original factory mags that work great, but the Mec-Gars have been absolutely outstanding.

 

[Phinehas25]

Does anyone here have any experience with something like this grip frame?

P365-XMACRO ALUMINUM R11 MANUAL SAFETY GRIP MODULE - ECM PRECISION

Upgrade your P365-XMACRO with a 2011-style aluminum grip module from ECM Precision. Machined from 7075 billet aluminum, this manual safety version was made with an exclusive grip panel design only available at sigsauer.com. Available for Manual Safety Fire Control Units (FCU)

www.sigsauer.com

I know it's not a 1911, but could something like this make the natural "shootability" of the p365 resemble a 1911?

 

[NSI]

Does anyone here have any experience with something like this grip frame?

P365-XMACRO ALUMINUM R11 MANUAL SAFETY GRIP MODULE - ECM PRECISION

Upgrade your P365-XMACRO with a 2011-style aluminum grip module from ECM Precision. Machined from 7075 billet aluminum, this manual safety version was made with an exclusive grip panel design only available at sigsauer.com. Available for Manual Safety Fire Control Units (FCU)

www.sigsauer.com

I know it's not a 1911, but could something like this make the natural "shootability" of the p365 resemble a 1911?

The p365 macro ergos are pretty good. The issue with that platform is the trigger. It’s plenty safe but doesn’t approach the level of performance one gets from a truly good trigger. Makes you work for your accuracy.

-J

 

[Eleven]

Does anyone here have any experience with something like this grip frame?

P365-XMACRO ALUMINUM R11 MANUAL SAFETY GRIP MODULE - ECM PRECISION

Upgrade your P365-XMACRO with a 2011-style aluminum grip module from ECM Precision. Machined from 7075 billet aluminum, this manual safety version was made with an exclusive grip panel design only available at sigsauer.com. Available for Manual Safety Fire Control Units (FCU)

www.sigsauer.com

I know it's not a 1911, but could something like this make the natural "shootability" of the p365 resemble a 1911?

I have the wilson combat version on my p365xl and love it. I do not regret the purchase one little bit. As pointed out above, it will still lack the shotability of the 1911’s trigger, but it does feel much better in my hand and points great. The angles are now very similar to the 1911.

 

[Dobermann]

Good ones are great- that’s the best one.

Adjustable rear sights have been used for unbelievably heavy use for a long time on 1911’s, Glocks, etc. Good ones (Dawson, Bomar, etc). Are beyond reliable enough for hard use.

Great - what's that one on your gun / the best one? Dawson?

And have you used Kensights (as used b Alchemy on that Delta)?

 

[rbutcher1234]

Great - what's that one on your gun / the best one? Dawson?

And have you used Kensights (as used b Alchemy on that Delta)?

Bo-mar

 

[JohnJohnson]

I have the wilson combat version on my p365xl and love it. I do not regret the purchase one little bit. As pointed out above, it will still lack the shotability of the 1911’s trigger, but it does feel much better in my hand and points great. The angles are now very similar to the 1911.

You can improve the reset at least by just putting in a +10% trigger return spring. Costs like $5 and takes a minute.

 

[Formidilosus]

Great - what's that one on your gun / the best one? Dawson?

Bomar.

And have you used Kensights (as used b Alchemy on that Delta)?

I’ve used versions by Bomar, Kensights and Ed Brown. All did fine, though much more use with Bomars and Ed Browns.

 

[Dobermann]

They actually discuss this exact issue in the Delta 1911s video I linked to above - the unit largely went over to Bomars after talking to top competitors and hearing the same thing Form just said. About the only reliability/durability concessions made on some of them were to bury them just a bit forward of the back of the slide, to have a small bumper of slide protecting the rear of the sight - similar to what you see with Form's 1911.

More commonly, you saw the Bomars buried into the slides as far back as possible, like on this Para-Ordnance of mine. This is peak 1994, btw - FBI's HRT was having Les Baer build one similar on double-stack Para-Ordnance frames, just without the carry-comp, stippling, and IIRC, they had Novaks instead of the Bomars. Unfortunately, the project didn't go well, largely because of mag issues as I understand it. Eventually that got traced afterward to insufficient spring power, but it caused some pretty bad reliability problems, and they went in a different direction. I've got extra-power wolfs in my original factory mags that work great, but the Mec-Gars have been absolutely outstanding.



View attachment 1057454View attachment 1057455

Thanks. I'd watched the video, but was keen to hear others' perspectives, as some of the 'classic' 1911 books say that adjustable sights are either not practical, or not durable enough (or both) for carry guns - and I was keen to get a second opinion.

Also wanted a second opinion on what Mike was saying in that video - I noticed that some of the commenters were wondering if Eli's silence was deferential respect, or respectful disagreement. Also mindful that some guys will have been around weapons mods / evolutions, but not necessarily be the best judges of them ... and that some comp stuff has stretched mil approaches in good ways, while some not so good ... can be hard to know what's what in this kind of context.

 

[RockAndSage]

Thanks. I'd watched the video, but was keen to hear others' perspectives, as some of the 'classic' 1911 books say that adjustable sights are either not practical, or not durable enough (or both) for carry guns - and I was keen to get a second opinion.

Also wanted a second opinion on what Mike was saying in that video - I noticed that some of the commenters were wondering if Eli's silence was deferential respect, or respectful disagreement. Also mindful that some guys will have been around weapons mods / evolutions, but not necessarily be the best judges of them ... and that some comp stuff has stretched mil approaches in good ways, while some not so good ... can be hard to know what's what in this kind of context.

Ah, that approach makes total sense, and I completely agree. Especially with the nature of Fudd-lore and how things get locked into the common understandings. With certain organizations, you also get what I call snapshot insights, where outside observers see one thing one time or in one particular period, and make sweeping judgements or declarations about how things are. Not realizing that at that level, it might be an experimental/evaluation thing, a mission-specific setup, or even just someone's personal preference.

That's all part of why I posted that video - it's hard to find good, first-person info out of certain places like Delta, especially spanning eras. The 1990s were an entirely different world from post-9/11 - organizationally, operationally, equipment. Everything. And there were a lot fewer guys in those units back then, so the insights are harder to come by than from post-9/11 pros. Vickers and Pannone are the only ones I'm aware of that have spoken openly online about how the unit's 1911s were built. After 9/11, capabilities evolution and often both physical and mission expansion all just hit light speed, full generations' worth of change in just a decade. Which included going away from 1911s, for the reasons Pannone mentioned. It was good to see a little more of that real-world 1911 institutional knowledge preserved.

Edit: I didn't read any of the comments in that video, but it was interesting to see what you mentioned. The vibe I got from Eli's silence was more stunned awe than anything else.

 

[solarshooter]

I tried a little home cooked 'surgical speed shooting' challenge at the range today. The game was 3 shots in 3 seconds into a 3" bull at 10 yds from low ready. Would've gone from concealment but this range does not allow it. I ran it 8 or 9 times and what a humbling experience haha. I had about a 50% hit rate, and when I slowed down enough to guarantee hits I blew the timer each time. I can shoot much faster, and much more accurately, but combine them into one drill and I sucked.

I shot this with my stock CZ P10F. I'm trying to line up some range time with a buddy who has an unhealthy collection of 1911s, including some 9mm single stacks, and will try running this drill with those for comparison.

 

[Formidilosus]

Thanks. I'd watched the video, but was keen to hear others' perspectives, as some of the 'classic' 1911 books say that adjustable sights are either not practical, or not durable enough (or both) for carry guns - and I was keen to get a second opinion.

Also wanted a second opinion on what Mike was saying in that video - I noticed that some of the commenters were wondering if Eli's silence was deferential respect, or respectful disagreement. Also mindful that some guys will have been around weapons mods / evolutions, but not necessarily be the best judges of them ... and that some comp stuff has stretched mil approaches in good ways, while some not so good ... can be hard to know what's what in this kind of context.

All that “adjustable sights aren’t good” nonsense is just the old silly tactical versus competition nonsense. Adjustable rear sights may not be the best for the average incompetent pistol carrier, but good ones are more than durable enough for hard use.

 

[Formidilosus]

Checking new mags. First bill drill is speed to shoot all X’s on the B8 bull (1.35”). Second is max speed to the black (5.5”).

Both from concealment.

1st= 3.14 sec all rounds in sub 1.5”.

2nd= 1.98 sec, all in the black.

 

[Dobermann]

Ah, that approach makes total sense, and I completely agree. Especially with the nature of Fudd-lore and how things get locked into the common understandings. With certain organizations, you also get what I call snapshot insights, where outside observers see one thing one time or in one particular period, and make sweeping judgements or declarations about how things are. Not realizing that at that level, it might be an experimental/evaluation thing, a mission-specific setup, or even just someone's personal preference.

That's all part of why I posted that video - it's hard to find good, first-person info out of certain places like Delta, especially spanning eras. The 1990s were an entirely different world from post-9/11 - organizationally, operationally, equipment. Everything. And there were a lot fewer guys in those units back then, so the insights are harder to come by than from post-9/11 pros. Vickers and Pannone are the only ones I'm aware of that have spoken openly online about how the unit's 1911s were built. After 9/11, capabilities evolution and often both physical and mission expansion all just hit light speed, full generations' worth of change in just a decade. Which included going away from 1911s, for the reasons Pannone mentioned. It was good to see a little more of that real-world 1911 institutional knowledge preserved.

Edit: I didn't read any of the comments in that video, but it was interesting to see what you mentioned. The vibe I got from Eli's silence was more stunned awe than anything else.

Agreed.

Am guessing you've seen the Vickers Deltal podcast? Here for those who haven't, just to add to the discussion:

 

[JohnJohnson]

I discovered that LOK has released their APS grips for the P211 so naturally I ordered some brass ones for mine. This'll be my 4th set of grips for it since I'm just continually experimenting with ergonomics for fun.

 

[solarshooter]

Checking new mags. First bill drill is speed to shoot all X’s on the B8 bull (1.35”). Second is max speed to the black (5.5”).

Both from concealment.

1st= 3.14 sec all rounds in sub 1.5”.

2nd= 1.98 sec, all in the black.

Good lord man. Is that 7yds or so? And that is a 45 correct?

 

[Formidilosus]

Good lord man. Is that 7yds or so? And that is a 45 correct?

7 yards, very hot 9mm.

 

[ARK_Ginger]

Checking new mags. First bill drill is speed to shoot all X’s on the B8 bull (1.35”). Second is max speed to the black (5.5”).

Both from concealment.

1st= 3.14 sec all rounds in sub 1.5”.

2nd= 1.98 sec, all in the black.

Took me a few times watching it to notice, but @Formidilosus who makes that 12 round magazine?

 

[Formidilosus]

Took me a few times watching it to notice, but @Formidilosus who makes that 12 round magazine?

It’s an experiment. It’s a 10 round 40s&w/10mm Tripp Cobra mag.

 

[RockAndSage]

It’s an experiment. It’s a 10 round 40s&w/10mm Tripp Cobra mag.

Will be super interested to hear how this goes - any adjustments to the feed lips or follower, or is this just a straight ammo swap?