168 TTSX vs. 165 GMX

[Newtosavage]

I shoot 168 ttsx at 2750 out of my 308, and have recovered 3 from the last three elk. The furthest shot was 300 yards, and the petals were barely open. I would think that at 500 yards, they would be close to penciling through, because of the low velocity. Barnes really need to be launched at 3k fps+. I’m going with 110’s this year at around 3400 fps, to see if they expand better.

At 500 yards, I should have 2200 fps. impact velocity. I hope I don't have to shoot that far, and I hope it's enough velocity if I do.

My original question was not whether the 168 TTSX was a good choice, or what velocity it needed, but rather how does it compare to the 165 GMX, which is slightly more accurate from my rifle.

 

[freddyG]

At 500 yards, I should have 2200 fps. impact velocity. I hope I don't have to shoot that far, and I hope it's enough velocity if I do.

My original question was not whether the 168 TTSX was a good choice, or what velocity it needed, but rather how does it compare to the 165 GMX, which is slightly more accurate from my rifle.

I guess I should have added neither to my previous post, because of the 500 yard distance. The ttsx is 99.9% copper which is softer than the gmx’s gilding metal. Expansion of mono bullets is controlled mostly by the size of the hollow point behind the plastic tip.

 

[Mule3006Elk]

Do some research on what Barnes considers opening. As other have stated they will open at lower velocities but we are not talking full expansion. They should do a better job explaining this iMO.

I keep my impact velocities > 2200 fps with Barnes.

 

[Newtosavage]

I guess I should have added neither to my previous post, because of the 500 yard distance. The ttsx is 99.9% copper which is softer than the gmx’s gilding metal. Expansion of mono bullets is controlled mostly by the size of the hollow point behind the plastic tip.

So you're saying not even 2200 fps. is enough in your opinion? What is that based on?

 

[Mule3006Elk]

So you're saying not even 2200 fps. is enough in your opinion? What is that based on?

2200 fps is enough.

 

[freddyG]

So you're saying not even 2200 fps. is enough in your opinion? What is that based on?

2200 fps works. How well depends on what you hit and what caliber bullet is used.

I didn’t mean to open up this can of worms, just wanted to share my experience with one of the bullets the OP asked about. There is a reason Barnes recommends 3k+ fps using their tsx/ttsx bullets.

I buy various ttsx bullets in bulk(1600/2000) per box, and since I love learning how things work first hand ,I have done plenty of testing.

Below are a few pics. The 168 ttsx on the left are the 2750 fps at the muzzle around 300 yard bullets recovered from elk. The ones on the right are 25 cal, 500+ yard bullets recovered from Mule deer. The one didn’t open up at all, and looks like an FMJ. That is what you will most certainly get shooting critters at longer distances starting with under 3k muzzle velocity.

 

[Mule3006Elk]

If you're into reading check out ballisticstudies.com > pick your cartridge.
Nathan recommends > 2400 fps for broadside shots using monos.
2200-2400 fps high shoulder shot to quickly anchor game.

I did my own testing. Between 2000-2100 fps I had one projectile barely open and the other fully open. > 2100 fps they all opened perfectly. I add an extra 100 fps to MY tested minimum and this is why I use 2200 fps. It just happens to correlate with Nathan's recommendation.

 

[Mule3006Elk]

2200 fps works. How well depends on what you hit and what caliber bullet is used.

I didn’t mean to open up this can of worms, just wanted to share my experience with one of the bullets the OP asked about. There is a reason Barnes recommends 3k+ fps using their tsx/ttsx bullets.

I buy various ttsx bullets in bulk(1600/2000) per box, and since I love learning how things work first hand ,I have done plenty of testing.

Below are a few pics. The 168 ttsx on the left are the 2750 fps at the muzzle around 300 yard bullets recovered from elk. The ones on the right are 25 cal, 500+ yard bullets recovered from Mule deer. The one didn’t open up at all, and looks like an FMJ. That is what you will most certainly get shooting critters at longer distances starting with under 3k muzzle velocity. View attachment 217991View attachment 217992

What is your estimated velocity at impact on the bullet that didn't open?

I didn't know you could buy TTSX in bulk!

I really hope they resolve their wobbly tip issue. Drives me nuts. Every other bullet I shoot with a ballistic tip roles true. My Edge TLR their is not one bad tip in the entire box. Barnes IMO does a poor job in this department. With Barnes I would say ~40-45% of the tips roll perfectly true. I spoke to them about a year ago, they are aware of the issue, and stated they were getting new equipment to resolve the issue. Based on my latest box it isn't resolved. They claim it won't affect accuracy. Not sure how a wobbly tip won't affect downrange POI.

I sort out the perfectly true tips and use the those for testing and hunting. The bad tips I use for reduced loads for my kids.

 

[freddyG]

I’m not sure on the impact velocity because I didn’t chrono the load. I used a 25-06, 100g ttsx, and a pretty stout load. It was well above 3k fps. The shots were over 500 yards, but not over 575.

There was talk in this thread about 168’s opening at 1600 fps, and I can tell you that it’s probably not happening. I threw probably in there, because once you hit bone anything can happen.

You can’t buy barnes in bulk unless you have a contract, or agree to buy 200k+

 

[Mule3006Elk]

I agree on 1600 fps statement. Fortunately at my max range I'm not venturing less than 2200 fps at impact. Interesting when I did my testing.

No contract for me.

 

[Newtosavage]

And the plot thickens...

Well, I guess I'll be hoping to do some testing myself in a month. I'll be sure to report back if I'm successful!

 

[Newtosavage]

After 4 trips to the range, the GMX are proving to be more consistently accurate than the TTSX. I tried four seating depths with the TTSX, and the best TTSX load is sill slightly worse than my average GMX group (1.1 MOA vs. 0.7 MOA avg.) at 300 yards. Wish I had further to test them, but I think the GMX are going to get to play. My confidence level in them is just higher based on cold bore 1st shot, and proximity of follow-up shots.

 

[brsnow]

After 4 trips to the range, the GMX are proving to be more consistently accurate than the TTSX. I tried four seating depths with the TTSX, and the best TTSX load is sill slightly worse than my average GMX group (1.1 MOA vs. 0.7 MOA avg.) at 300 yards. Wish I had further to test them, but I think the GMX are going to get to play. My confidence level in them is just higher based on cold bore 1st shot, and proximity of follow-up shots.

I have taken elk with 150 GMX out of a .308. Worked great. Was bummed they stopped making them.

 

[Newtosavage]

I have taken elk with 150 GMX out of a .308. Worked great. Was bummed they stopped making them.

You mean like these?

Hornady GMX Bullets 30 Cal (308 Diameter) 150 Grain GMX Boat Tail

Hard-hitting and deep-penetrating, the Hornady GMX bullet combines monolithic construction with pioneering ballistic design to meet the need for a...

www.midwayusa.com

 

[JakeSCH]

Have you tried any of the hammers out of your 30-06? I plan to load my dad's up with StaBall 6.5 and the 153's for at some point. I currently load up the 175 LRX with StaBall 6.5 for his tikka and it shoots very well.

 

[brsnow]

You mean like these?

Hornady GMX Bullets 30 Cal (308 Diameter) 150 Grain GMX Boat Tail

Hard-hitting and deep-penetrating, the Hornady GMX bullet combines monolithic construction with pioneering ballistic design to meet the need for a...

www.midwayusa.com

Thank you, I don’t reload, Hornady used to make them in their superformance line.

 

[Newtosavage]

Thank you, I don’t reload, Hornady used to make them in their superformance line.

Gotcha. I just happen to have about 20 of those 150 GMX's left from when I had a .308. I think I'll stuff some in my '06 cases and see what they do.

 

[Newtosavage]

Have you tried any of the hammers out of your 30-06? I plan to load my dad's up with StaBall 6.5 and the 153's for at some point. I currently load up the 175 LRX with StaBall 6.5 for his tikka and it shoots very well.

Funny you ask. I ordered a box of 50 152 grain Hammer Hunters for my '06 just yesterday. The 131's shoot so good out of my 7mm-08 I figured why not!