10s or 12s

[TradLife406]

I've been looking at a lot of past threads on here tossing this back and forth.

I need a pair of top end binos for the Montana priaire. When I mountian hunt its too thick for more than my little Mavens. But sitting on bluffs and coulees for hours looking for deer I really need to up my glass.

So off a tripod mainly would the 12's be a better bet? Like the El 12x50? Then how bad is hand holding them for quick checks say on a stalk/approach?

I'm sure this has been asked a hundred times. I've listened to Snyder and Frank say they do a lot better with high end 10s. And those boys have some experience. But the price isn't much different between the powers. And I've found a few good deals on 12's for when that virus money hits my account... LOL

Then what about objective lenses? Are high end 42mm enough? Is there a big enough benefit to go to 50's?

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[Jsn_leonard]

I run 12x50s. They’re money on a tri pod and I can still free hand them when I need too.

 

[YBPS]

I tried 12x50’s for two seasons then got 10x50 EL, which I am very happy with. 12’s are easy for me to use off hand. I would not be worried about that. If you get the EL’s 10’s or 12’s you will not be disappointed. The 12’s where just a little much for me. I feel like the 10’s let me scan twice as fast.

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

12x50s for me. Meopta MeoStar.

 

[Brooks]

IMO 12x50 EL would be perfect for the prairie ! I have a pair of 12x50EL’s and they are as good as it gets.

 

[TradLife406]

IMO 12x50 EL would be perfect for the prairie ! I have a pair of 12x50EL’s and they are as good as it gets.

I see a fellow member has a pair for sale in the classifieds. I screen shot it and sent it to the wife. I got home and she asked "You've been wanting those for a while haven't you?"

If I had a spotter or 10's and a spotter I'd be set. But in place of a spotter and without any high end glass I'm thinking the 12's will be the way to go.



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[Brian Fahs]

I see a fellow member has a pair for sale in the classifieds. I screen shot it and sent it to the wife. I got home and she asked "You've been wanting those for a while haven't you?"

If I had a spotter or 10's and a spotter I'd be set. But in place of a spotter and without any high end glass I'm thinking the 12's will be the way to go.



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12x50s no matter how good will not replace a good spotter. Each have their intended purpose.

Before I would own just 12s I would opt for descent 10's and a descent spotter. Much more versatile.

 

[willfrye027]

I see a fellow member has a pair for sale in the classifieds. I screen shot it and sent it to the wife. I got home and she asked "You've been wanting those for a while haven't you?"

If I had a spotter or 10's and a spotter I'd be set. But in place of a spotter and without any high end glass I'm thinking the 12's will be the way to go.



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I don’t think the 12s are going to prevent the need for a spotting scope. The difference in magnification compared to 10x is pretty small. It’s enough that your brain will “pick up” a deer a farther range compared to a 10x. But when it comes to field judging that deer, you’re not going to find much difference between the two.

I went through a phase trying to figure out my binocular combination a while ago. I had 8, 10, 12, and 15x and played around with them for a week or so. For me, 8x was ideal for still hunting/hand held glassing. 10s we’re still OK to hand hold but I lost FOV and ability to see movement compared to 8s. 12s were in no mans land for me...too shaky for looking for animals hand held (but ok for confirming rock vs deer, see if he’s still bedded, etc). 12s did not add much in magnification compared to the 10s. It wasn’t until 15x that I felt there was an advantage to the extra magnification. For me what that means is, looking at a brushy hillside, how far away can I spot a deer without too much difficulty? A rough guestimate to put a number on it is add two zeros to the magnification and that’s he effective range. 8x is good to 800 yards, 10x to 1000, etc. At least to my eyes. So I ended up with 8x32 mavens for still hunting, and 10-15 duovids for hunting more open stuff. And I still need a spotter for most field judging beyond 1000 yards even with the 15s.

 

[TradLife406]

I don’t think the 12s are going to prevent the need for a spotting scope. The difference in magnification compared to 10x is pretty small. It’s enough that your brain will “pick up” a deer a farther range compared to a 10x. But when it comes to field judging that deer, you’re not going to find much difference between the two.

I went through a phase trying to figure out my binocular combination a while ago. I had 8, 10, 12, and 15x and played around with them for a week or so. For me, 8x was ideal for still hunting/hand held glassing. 10s we’re still OK to hand hold but I lost FOV and ability to see movement compared to 8s. 12s were in no mans land for me...too shaky for looking for animals hand held (but ok for confirming rock vs deer, see if he’s still bedded, etc). 12s did not add much in magnification compared to the 10s. It wasn’t until 15x that I felt there was an advantage to the extra magnification. For me what that means is, looking at a brushy hillside, how far away can I spot a deer without too much difficulty? A rough guestimate to put a number on it is add two zeros to the magnification and that’s he effective range. 8x is good to 800 yards, 10x to 1000, etc. At least to my eyes. So I ended up with 8x32 mavens for still hunting, and 10-15 duovids for hunting more open stuff. And I still need a spotter for most field judging beyond 1000 yards even with the 15s.

So probably just buy the high end 10's then a spotter next year? I don't really need to field judge anything. Being in Montana our mulies are dinks (98% of them where I hunt) but the whitetails have a lot of potential. But a spotter with a phone skope would be a lot of fun.

That actually opens my options for demo glass a lot by choosing 10's.

There a big difference between 42's and 50's?

Thanks guys!

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[Bowhunter50]

I’ve heard guys say they went to 12s after using 15s and one of the reasons is they believe they could find every animal they found with 15s just the same with 12s.

Couldn’t the same be said for 12s v 10s off a tripod? I can’t imagine the extra 2x magnification makes that big of a difference? I bet it’s very rare that you could find an animal with 12s on a tripod that you couldn’t find with 10s on a tripod. However the 10s have the advantage of being better for handheld use. I can’t use 12s offhand. I know some guys say they can though.

For me the big advantage is putting your binos on a tripod. My 10x SLCs are excellent off a tripod. Maybe I’m missing something here?


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[TradLife406]

Tempting...

What about two more weeks until we get our virus money? Dang I'm glad to have a ton of kids and a great job that's keeping me working lol!

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[gr8fuldoug]

12x's "for quick checks say on a stalk/approach" are great and not an issue, however, for "sitting on bluffs and coulees for hours looking for deer I really need to up my glass" they are not the answer if you're free handing them. You'd be much better served with a high quality 10x.
It's our pleasure to discuss options with you

 

[Bailer]

12x's "for quick checks say on a stalk/approach" are great and not an issue, however, for "sitting on bluffs and coulees for hours looking for deer I really need to up my glass" they are not the answer if you're free handing them. You'd be much better served with a high quality 10x.
It's our pleasure to discuss options with you

I would say the 12’s are serviceable for a quick check on a stalk. Even mediocre 8’s are better for that. I’m still undecided on whether the difference is enough to move my 12el’s off my chest and into my pack. For elk I probably will do it that way. For desert muleys and coues the 12’s do it all.

For hours on a bluff break out the tripod. I found 12el’s to be the best in that situation. The glass quality and fov advantages over 15slc’s outweighed the extra 3x for me. I don’t think the 10el’s offer enough fov advantage to offset the 2x loss. Maybe that’s just my Arizona bias, and taking coues off the menu might change my mind.

 

[willfrye027]

So probably just buy the high end 10's then a spotter next year? I don't really need to field judge anything. Being in Montana our mulies are dinks (98% of them where I hunt) but the whitetails have a lot of potential. But a spotter with a phone skope would be a lot of fun.

That actually opens my options for demo glass a lot by choosing 10's.

There a big difference between 42's and 50's?

Thanks guys!

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I would hate to steer you wrong, especially since glass can be pretty subjective person to person. I think one of the reasons the 12s are popular right now is because the swaros are so nice. If you spend a lot of time looking for deer at that 1000-1500 yard range...12s will give you a little edge over 10s. The extra 2x does help animals pop out to your eye at longer distance. A couple years ago in Wyoming I had 10s and my buddy had 12s. Looking at a hillside 1200 yards away, he could pick out deer just a little bit easier than I could. As soon as he pointed one out, it was like “oh, yeah I see him now.” But I felt like I had a small advantage for anything within 800 yards or so. And walking around I would stop to glass and pick up more deer off hand. Pretty subjective and subtle...but for guys that spend a ton of time glassing off a tripod looking for hidden deer, 12s are going to give a small advantage over 10s...especially if you’re going to Swarovski from something slightly inferior. There are trade offs and it just depends on where you want to make them.

For 12s you want a 50mm objective. For 10s, 42 is plenty. I was involved in some depredation pig hunts and we glassed at night on a full moon. Quality 10x42 or 8x32 was enough to spot pigs at night if that tells you anything. 10x50 is a nicer, more pleasant view and easier to get your eyes in the sweet spot without blackouts because of the larger exit pupil. But there is a significant weight and size penalty. Some guys think it’s worth it, but if I had dedicated 10s they would be 10x42 for a more all around usefulness. My duovids have a 50mm objective and it’s nice to have at 10x...but not a groundbreaking difference compared to 42mm.

Spotting scopes are a different conversation entirely, but you would definitely get more mileage from a good spotting scope and bino combo than just a pair of 12s. My issue is that I look long enough at those borderline deer in my spotting scope and they start to grow...and when I kill them there is ground shrinkage lol. But I love my spotting scope and wouldn’t leave home without it.

 

[willfrye027]

I would say the 12’s are serviceable for a quick check on a stalk. Even mediocre 8’s are better for that. I’m still undecided on whether the difference is enough to move my 12el’s off my chest and into my pack. For elk I probably will do it that way. For desert muleys and coues the 12’s do it all.

For hours on a bluff break out the tripod. I found 12el’s to be the best in that situation. The glass quality and fov advantages over 15slc’s outweighed the extra 3x for me. I don’t think the 10el’s offer enough fov advantage to offset the 2x loss. Maybe that’s just my Arizona bias, and taking coues off the menu might change my mind.

I keep hearing this about the 12 els. It’s really tempting to try them. But when I compare my 15x to my buddies 12x razors, I can flat out spot more deer at distance, no question. Especially when movement slows down and I’m looking into the shade for bedded deer. I really like that extra magnification of 15x..but the 12s are definitely tempting.

 

[Bailer]

I keep hearing this about the 12 els. It’s really tempting to try them. But when I compare my 15x to my buddies 12x razors, I can flat out spot more deer at distance, no question. Especially when movement slows down and I’m looking into the shade for bedded deer. I really like that extra magnification of 15x..but the 12s are definitely tempting.

I did several trips with a buddy who has 15slc’s and 12el’s when I was deciding. If the glass were equal I think I’d go 15’s. When trying to tell whether it’s a branch or an antler in the shade at 1200 yards though the better glass on the el’s offset the power of the 15slc’s.

 

[eaglemountainman]

If you decide to stay with quality 10X42's, if at all possible, give the Kowa Genesis 44 10.5's a hard look. They don't get the attention that the 3 Alpha brands get, but they will blow your mind and save you a lot of money. Do some research on them. Maybe gr8fuldoug will chime in here.

Also, when you're ready for that spotter, I strongly suggest a look at the Kowa TSN-553/554...especially if you're a backpack hunter. But, even if you're not, the precision and clarity of the pure flourite crystal objective lens, at 28oz, scream out for consideration.

Sorry for sounding like such a gushing fan boy...I really hesitated to post this. Best of luck with your decision.

 

[C_Dett21]

Just picked up some El 10s . Super impressive, clean and crisp. Great for a quick handhold/scan and even better on a tripod setup.

 

[ckleeves]

I did several trips with a buddy who has 15slc’s and 12el’s when I was deciding. If the glass were equal I think I’d go 15’s. When trying to tell whether it’s a branch or an antler in the shade at 1200 yards though the better glass on the el’s offset the power of the 15slc’s.

X2. I think it really depends on what 12x your comparing to what 15x (or even 10x). If it’s between older slc 15’s and EL 12’s then I’ll take the EL’s all day. The gap narrows with the current gen slc 15’s. I think the glass is close enough on them that the 3x power gain starts to be an advantage for long range tripod glassing. But 15’s are also about the least versatile piece of glass there is. They kinda do one thing but they do it well.

Between 10’s and 12’s to me it’s a toss up. I currently have 12’s and they do everything fairly well. But at the same time there is no arguing that it’s easier to free hand 10’s.


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[gr8fuldoug]

If you decide to stay with quality 10X42's, if at all possible, give the Kowa Genesis 44 10.5's a hard look. They don't get the attention that the 3 Alpha brands get, but they will blow your mind and save you a lot of money. Do some research on them. Maybe gr8fuldoug will chime in here.

Also, when you're ready for that spotter, I strongly suggest a look at the Kowa TSN-553/554...especially if you're a backpack hunter. But, even if you're not, the precision and clarity of the pure flourite crystal objective lens, at 28oz, scream out for consideration.

Sorry for sounding like such a gushing fan boy...I really hesitated to post this. Best of luck with your decision.

I couldn't agree more. Kowa optics are under marketed but are as good as optics get