Zone 2

[RedPaint]

I’ve been reading about zone 2 and have been adding it to my training. I use a stair climber as it’s easy to control for variables. I’m 48 and my heart rate is 125-130. It’s an easy pace I can maintain for a long time time, feels like an all day pace, and I can breath through my nose and talk easily. Does this sound like zone 2? I’m surprised my heart rate is that high. When I ruck with 45lbs on flat ground my heart rate is 103

 

[Coach Chris]

You're likely in Zone 3

 

[RedPaint]

You're likely in Zone 3

Okay. Are you basing that on heart rate? I’ll try again at a slower level and see where my heart rate lands.

 

[Coach Chris]

Okay. Are you basing that on heart rate? I’ll try again at a slower level and see where my heart rate lands.

Yes
If you really want to train in specific zones you really need a to use something like Polar Beat or another app that you can see what zone you're in.

 

[P Carter]

Zone 3 of a system with how many zones?

I don’t want to contradict a coach, but nose-breathing and conversational pace match all descriptions of zone 2 that I’ve seen, and the 120-130 matches with my limited experience. For example, for me top of zone 2 is 140, and I also can’t get above around 110 when rucking flats. Maffetone formula for op would give 127. All that triangulated with what OP describes as his perceived effort matches with zone 2.

OP, here’s a test you can use to find aerobic threshold, top of zone 2: https://evokeendurance.com/resources/evoke-endurance-masterclass-heart-rate-drift-test/

I do recognize this is just one of many methods to calculate top of zone 2, and there are probably many more, but from what I’ve seen, it seems like OP is describing an aerobic effort.

 

[Braaap]

I’ve been reading about zone 2 and have been adding it to my training. I use a stair climber as it’s easy to control for variables. I’m 48 and my heart rate is 125-130. It’s an easy pace I can maintain for a long time time, feels like an all day pace, and I can breath through my nose and talk easily. Does this sound like zone 2? I’m surprised my heart rate is that high. When I ruck with 45lbs on flat ground my heart rate is 103

You might even be too low at 125-130. I do a lot of stair climber and I’ve been training using the Morpheus app and chest strap.

Morpheus Training System

trainwithmorpheus.com

I’m 42 and my zone 2 is typically high 130’s even into low 140’s. The Morpheus app checks your HRV each morning, you input your sleep and some subjective information and it adjusts your zone 2 accordingly for that day. It’s not too expensive and has been very helpful for me. Before I was sticking with the other methods mentioned above and while they get close they’re not as accurate and I was spending too much time in the high 120’s and for me that was too low.

 

[steelheadmike]

Before anything else, get a reliable HRM (read- NOT a watch). If you're using a good HRM and you're HR is in the range you described and you are able to converste/breathe close to normal, you're most likely in Zone 2 or close to it.

Zone 2 training shouldn't be overly taxing physically. The whole point of it is being able to maintain long durations while keeping you're HR elevated, but not high.

I'm 43 and I use typically use 125-135 as Zone 2. For me, that's rucking on flat ground with 20% body weight at 3.5-4.0mph pace for 60-90min. If I'm on moderate hills, HR will go up to 135-145 and I can tell I'm having to work a bit harder.

 

[TheShootist]

I’m 44 and I’ve been doing the Evoke Endurance Mountaineering 16 week plan in prep for a sheep hunt this September. I used a Garmin heart rate strap and did the AeT test to find my zone two, and was surprised when it was 135-150bpm. I did the AnT test and found my max was 190. I even paid for a one off coaching session because I didn’t believe what I was seeing.

The coach explained it like this, like the grinch I have physically smaller heart for my body size. At 6’2” and 200 lbs I’m like a F350 with a V6, I need the high RPM’s to generate enough blood flow for my body. I’ve been using the traditional math for years and was really surprised I have been training in Zone one for years thinking I was in two. I did repeat the test a week later to confirm the results at the coach’s suggestion. The breathing through the nose thing lines up with these rates too. Everyone’s body is a little different!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Huntingnorseman]

I have been following this thread for a bit and haven't seen any mention of a VO2 Max test, though I may have missed it. VO2 Max test with a machine that has a CO2 sensor is the best way to determine your Zone 2. All the calculators can be way off since they are based off your age and then some other variable(s). Your Zone 2 HR will and should change throughout a year long training cycle and hunting season. Spending the money on a V02 test allows your training to be much more accurate and efficient for Zone 2 and allows you do specific workouts targeting improvement in your VO2 Max. Take the guess work out of it, get a test.

 

[knale87]

Some good info here

 

[JustABritCrazy]

I’m 64 use a Precor Elliptical for my cardio work. Set it at 5 17 before lifting, 5 15 after. Half hour each session. Maxs out at 5 20. Using the handle bar heart rate monitor I’m at 135 bpm in the middle of the work out. Feels like I’m in Zone 2. Can carry on a conversation with no issues. 105 bpm feels like I’m barely moving. according to Google I’m in a vigorous training zone. Should add I’m walking around 3 to 5 miles a day, 3 to 5 days a week in the woods marking and cruising timber carrying about 15 pounds on my back.

 

[mad_angler]

Zone 3 of a system with how many zones?

I don’t want to contradict a coach, but nose-breathing and conversational pace match all descriptions of zone 2 that I’ve seen, and the 120-130 matches with my limited experience. For example, for me top of zone 2 is 140, and I also can’t get above around 110 when rucking flats. Maffetone formula for op would give 127. All that triangulated with what OP describes as his perceived effort matches with zone 2.

OP, here’s a test you can use to find aerobic threshold, top of zone 2: https://evokeendurance.com/resources/evoke-endurance-masterclass-heart-rate-drift-test/

I do recognize this is just one of many methods to calculate top of zone 2, and there are probably many more, but from what I’ve seen, it seems like OP is describing an aerobic effort.

I'm working with an Evoke coach now... I bought the custom plan for 6 weeks. I have a Wyoming elk hunt in about 12 weeks.

The test quoted above is an easy, accurate way to determine your personal Aerobic threshold. Formulas based on age are pretty useless for an individual.

For me, my aerobic threshold (LT1) is 145 bpm. My anaerobic threshold (LT2) is 160 bpm. My max heart rate is 180. I'm 60 years old. The formula of 220-age would say that my max heart rate is 160.

For me, zone 2 is from 131 to 145 bpm. To improve my aerobic capacity, I should try to train pretty close to 145 bpm but under 145 bpm.

 

[mad_angler]

Also, get the Coros heart rate monitor for your arm. It is pretty cheap and accurate.

 

[Cuz]

I'm working with an Evoke coach now... I bought the custom plan for 6 weeks. I have a Wyoming elk hunt in about 12 weeks.

The test quoted above is an easy, accurate way to determine your personal Aerobic threshold. Formulas based on age are pretty useless for an individual.

For me, my aerobic threshold (LT1) is 145 bpm. My anaerobic threshold (LT2) is 160 bpm. My max heart rate is 180. I'm 60 years old. The formula of 220-age would say that my max heart rate is 160.

For me, zone 2 is from 131 to 145 bpm. To improve my aerobic capacity, I should try to train pretty close to 145 bpm but under 145 bpm.

@mad_angler ,

Something isn't making sense about your Zone 2 range. If your max heart rate is 180, then isn't Zone 2 supposed to be between 60-70% of Max? For you that would be 108-126 bpm. How are you coming up with 131-145 bpm as your Zone 2?

Of course, I'm assuming a traditional 5 Zones where:
Zone 1 is 50-60%
Zone 2 is 60-70%
Zone 3 is 70-80%
Zone 4 is 80-90%
Zone 5 is 90-100%

I know the formulas that are available to compute a person's max heart rate can be wildly inaccurate. They were certainly not meant for a relatively fit individual over age 40. How did you calculate your max heart rate?

At 62, I calculated my MHR to be 178. I used a Polar Heart Rate Monitor and rowing machine. It was easy enough to find a rowing test online that I could complete to see what my max heart rate was. I am unaware of any accurate method to calculate max HR other than actually getting on a piece of equipment and putting your heart to the test.

I'm only questioning your numbers because I recently discovered the value of Zone 2 training and have added it to my regular workouts. After reading this thread, it seems almost all of you are using a higher range that I was considering as Zone 3 to be your Zone 2. I just want to make sure I don't have it wrong and have been training at a lower heart rate than I should be.

Thanks,
-Cuz.

 

[V2Pnutrition]

@Cuz The technical answer to finding Z2 is knowing your upper aerobic threshold and creating your zones from that (most would suggest aerobic threshold to -10% of that number = Zone 2). That's likely going to be higher than the percentages ranges you point out above (which you nailed, by the way...that is what is typically suggested).

One thing to keep in mind: the bpm data points are more 'good ideas' than absolutes. There is a HUGE continuum that exists in this.

For example, I'm guessing based on your calculated max, you're assuming Z2 for you is between 106 bpm and 124 bpm. It's good to remember that your body doesn't stop developing the favorable outcomes found with Z2 at 125 bpm. It's still there.

There is a much larger continuum that exists than the imagery painted by (insert your favorite Z2 programming). Spend most of the time doing long and easy training (high volume, low intensity). Sprinkle in a few hard days. Adjust both of those up in incremental amounts over a long period of time ("periodize" and overload progressively) and give yourself the opportunity to absorb that volume with recovery weeks.

I use my HR as information, not a master. If I feel good at a given pace, but notice my HR has drifted in the low Z3 range, I don't slow down. I say "interesting..." and keep trucking. On the contrary, if I see my HR on the upper end of Z1 and feel smoked, I don't force myself to go faster. I say "interesting..." and stay at the pace or slow down. Once done, I might use that data to adjust my programming (give myself a recovery week if Z1 is torching me, for example...).

That's probably more of an answer than you bargained for, but I hope it helps!

 

[Cuz]

@Cuz The technical answer to finding Z2 is knowing your upper aerobic threshold and creating your zones from that (most would suggest aerobic threshold to -10% of that number = Zone 2). That's likely going to be higher than the percentages ranges you point out above (which you nailed, by the way...that is what is typically suggested).

One thing to keep in mind: the bpm data points are more 'good ideas' than absolutes. There is a HUGE continuum that exists in this.

For example, I'm guessing based on your calculated max, you're assuming Z2 for you is between 106 bpm and 124 bpm. It's good to remember that your body doesn't stop developing the favorable outcomes found with Z2 at 125 bpm. It's still there.

There is a much larger continuum that exists than the imagery painted by (insert your favorite Z2 programming). Spend most of the time doing long and easy training (high volume, low intensity). Sprinkle in a few hard days. Adjust both of those up in incremental amounts over a long period of time ("periodize" and overload progressively) and give yourself the opportunity to absorb that volume with recovery weeks.

I use my HR as information, not a master. If I feel good at a given pace, but notice my HR has drifted in the low Z3 range, I don't slow down. I say "interesting..." and keep trucking. On the contrary, if I see my HR on the upper end of Z1 and feel smoked, I don't force myself to go faster. I say "interesting..." and stay at the pace or slow down. Once done, I might use that data to adjust my programming (give myself a recovery week if Z1 is torching me, for example...).

That's probably more of an answer than you bargained for, but I hope it helps!

Thanks a lot for that detailed explanation. I had to google "upper aerobic threshold" as I've never heard of it before. That sent me down a two hour rabbit hole...

Your assumption about my zone 2 range is accurate, and I've often wondered that maybe my Zone 2 workouts on my rower were a little too easy, but whenever I did a max heart rate test, I pretty much always end up at 178-180. I didn't know about aerobic threshold stuff.

It seems I'm almost the opposite of you, since I have little knowledge regarding proper training, I calculated my zones based on max HR and considered them as hard numbers. If I see my HR drift into Z3 during a specific Z2 workout, I slow down to keep it in Z2. And if my HR drifts low, then I speed up to keep my HR in Z2. I don't let how I'm feeling get in the way of the HR monitor as I "think" that it is providing the data I need to stay in the right zone.

One of the things I just learned regarding max HR vs aerobic threshold confirms what you said about it being a better method to determine zones. Especially in athletes and people at higher fitness levels. I'm not there (yet??), but I will look into it further. Currently, I use Z2 rowing on active rest days between weight training workouts. At age 62, all my workouts are more about functional training to stay healthy as I age so I can remain active as a competitive shooter. I'm not a hunter, but I've found that there's a lot of crossover with regards to equipment, training/practice, and nutrition. A weekend hunt has some similarities to a weekend long Steel Challenge match.

I guess this kind of info ties into another thread about the value of a training coach. It's probably a good idea for anyone starting out to get them pointed in the right direction, and also at different intervals along the way to keep or verify that they are still going in the right direction. I appreciate your response, thank you.

 

[V2Pnutrition]

Thanks a lot for that detailed explanation. I had to google "upper aerobic threshold" as I've never heard of it before. That sent me down a two hour rabbit hole...

Your assumption about my zone 2 range is accurate, and I've often wondered that maybe my Zone 2 workouts on my rower were a little too easy, but whenever I did a max heart rate test, I pretty much always end up at 178-180. I didn't know about aerobic threshold stuff.

It seems I'm almost the opposite of you, since I have little knowledge regarding proper training, I calculated my zones based on max HR and considered them as hard numbers. If I see my HR drift into Z3 during a specific Z2 workout, I slow down to keep it in Z2. And if my HR drifts low, then I speed up to keep my HR in Z2. I don't let how I'm feeling get in the way of the HR monitor as I "think" that it is providing the data I need to stay in the right zone.

One of the things I just learned regarding max HR vs aerobic threshold confirms what you said about it being a better method to determine zones. Especially in athletes and people at higher fitness levels. I'm not there (yet??), but I will look into it further. Currently, I use Z2 rowing on active rest days between weight training workouts. At age 62, all my workouts are more about functional training to stay healthy as I age so I can remain active as a competitive shooter. I'm not a hunter, but I've found that there's a lot of crossover with regards to equipment, training/practice, and nutrition. A weekend hunt has some similarities to a weekend long Steel Challenge match.

I guess this kind of info ties into another thread about the value of a training coach. It's probably a good idea for anyone starting out to get them pointed in the right direction, and also at different intervals along the way to keep or verify that they are still going in the right direction. I appreciate your response, thank you.

You are very welcome and welcome to the forums! You'll probably find a pile of overlap between your world and ours as many of us go down our own two hour rabbit holes on shooting and ballistics, too. We look forward to you contributing your expertise and hope you pull a nugget or two from ours. If you stick around long enough, I wouldn't be surprised if you "accidentally" end up finding yourself with a hunting tag in your pocket. ;-)

 

[Wprinkle]

What are you basing your heart rate on? If it is a watch I suggest getting a HRM. I have noticed large discrepancies in my watches vs a heart rate monitor..

 

[1jeds]

Thanks a lot for that detailed explanation. I had to google "upper aerobic threshold" as I've never heard of it before. That sent me down a two hour rabbit hole...

Your assumption about my zone 2 range is accurate, and I've often wondered that maybe my Zone 2 workouts on my rower were a little too easy, but whenever I did a max heart rate test, I pretty much always end up at 178-180. I didn't know about aerobic threshold stuff.

It seems I'm almost the opposite of you, since I have little knowledge regarding proper training, I calculated my zones based on max HR and considered them as hard numbers. If I see my HR drift into Z3 during a specific Z2 workout, I slow down to keep it in Z2. And if my HR drifts low, then I speed up to keep my HR in Z2. I don't let how I'm feeling get in the way of the HR monitor as I "think" that it is providing the data I need to stay in the right zone.

One of the things I just learned regarding max HR vs aerobic threshold confirms what you said about it being a better method to determine zones. Especially in athletes and people at higher fitness levels. I'm not there (yet??), but I will look into it further. Currently, I use Z2 rowing on active rest days between weight training workouts. At age 62, all my workouts are more about functional training to stay healthy as I age so I can remain active as a competitive shooter. I'm not a hunter, but I've found that there's a lot of crossover with regards to equipment, training/practice, and nutrition. A weekend hunt has some similarities to a weekend long Steel Challenge match.

I guess this kind of info ties into another thread about the value of a training coach. It's probably a good idea for anyone starting out to get them pointed in the right direction, and also at different intervals along the way to keep or verify that they are still going in the right direction. I appreciate your response, thank you.

Also don't be afraid of Z1/easy aerobic work. Zone 2 is all the rage these days, but the aerobic threshold and adaptations can be pushed up from below, including the easy work.

 

[abilliott]

Where/how do you do the AeT testing?