Zone 2 Training

[mtwarden]

After long mountain races you really want to just sit on the coach and lick your wounds, BUT 2-3 easy miles for a couple of days seems to significantly decrease soreness and facilitate recovery

 

[P Carter]

This is anecdotal, but I've done enough of these to be convinced. After a long trail run (20miles with 4-5k vert), I'll stay "on my feet" the rest of the day, walking up to another 4 miles as I go about chores, etc. I feel much better the following day than if I was lethargic after that hard workout.

Agree—if you eat 400 calories per hour during, and spend the rest of the day active, it’s a wholly different experience than eating <200 calories per hour and sitting on the couch after…

 

[plebe]

Simple formulas to get a good idea of the upper limit of zone 2:

MAF formula:

180- Age

Nose breathing test:
The max heart rate you can sustain for many minutes while breathing with only your nose.

I can nose breath exercising for an hour and more at 25-30bpm over my MAF number.

Anyone else have this problem?

Should I stick to MAF, or go with perceived effort (nose breathing/conversational output)? Or is lactate testing my only recourse?

 

[BBob]

I can nose breath exercising for an hour and more at 25-30bpm over my MAF number.

Anyone else have this problem?

Should I stick to MAF, or go with perceived effort (nose breathing/conversational output)? Or is lactate testing my only recourse?

That MAF formula is unreliable. I'm higher by 15BPM than the formula suggests. As you get fitter the number can climb even higher. Maffetone I believe only intended that number to be a starting point for self testing. Many years since I read his stuff but that's what I recall. I'd stick with the conversation test. If you do lab test make sure you ask for your aerobic as well as your lactate threshold.

 

[Cactus kid]

I can nose breath exercising for an hour and more at 25-30bpm over my MAF number.

Anyone else have this problem?

Should I stick to MAF, or go with perceived effort (nose breathing/conversational output)? Or is lactate testing my only recourse?

@BBob is correct in the MAF being a rough starting point. On a population level, MAF is accurate. On an individual it leaves a lot to desire.

The perceived effort it’s the metric I use. I’ve never had a lab test, but it is the gold standard.

 

[Poser]

I find that perceived effort is fairly simple to identify for zone 2 for the experienced trainee who is not particular concerned with competitive performance at a high level.

I do admit there may be some bias there due to the simplicity of zone 2 conditioning because, on the flipside, I find the concept of RPE (Rate of Perceived Effort) as it relates to strength training to be entirely absurd. You can't convince me that most any trainee, come the end of a hard week of training and after a crappy night's sleep, can go into the gym to squat and effectively distinguish between, say an RPE 7 and a RPE 8 in any meaningful and consistent manner. Rowing/Hiking/Running/Biking in an output where one can maintain conversational pace while still perceiving that they are effectively training zone 2 seems, by comparison, to be a more straightforward concept, but maybe that's not fair?

My point? If you're training to be in shape for hunting AND you're staying in shape year round, you're intuition about what is zone 2 and what is not, is probably sufficiently accurate if you do enough of it and your perspective is not entirely tainted by a heavy focus on anaerobic training (Crossfitters may have a difficult time keeping it in low gear, for examples, since everything they do is anaerobically full throttle all of the time).
If you're looking to put up some competitive times in an endurance race of some type it would certainly be worth investing the time and money ito accurate heart rates zones that are exclusive to you as an individual.

 

[Marbles]

Reviving an old thread here but I am just looking for some understanding on Zone 2. My MHR = 190 and my RHR = 51. Using online calculator that puts my zone 2 max around 148 bpm which makes sense to me. Using my Garmin though, it thinks my zone 2 max should be around 133 bpm which I think it too low based on exertion. I tried it today and did 45 minutes on the treadmill, basically walking at an 8% incline for 45 minutes, not exceeding 133 bpm to stay in the Garmin/treadmill indicated zone 2 (chest HR strap). Is this the right range for developing the aerobic capacity, or should I be pushing it more to the 148bpm? Staying at 133bpm as my limit means very little running for me as I usually am in the 140's.

I can nose breath and talk well into zone 3 (as measured by a heart rate drift test on a treadmill). Garmin places my zones too high. I can also hold lactate threshold for over an hour, so my anaerobic system is solid, enough to fool the perceived exertion signs.

Do the drift test or pay for a lab. The first time I tried the drift test I started at what I thought was zone 2 and stopped early because I was getting clost to zone 4 and already new I had over 10% drift. I'm seeing better results now and that slow pace is speeding up.

Updated Thinking on Aerobic Assessment for Mountain Athletes

Until recently, there were limited options for an endurance athlete to get a handle on his or her metabolic response to exercise at varying intensities. There are several good options, but we’ll start with the one we usually default to. Be aware that it requires serious technology, such as an...

evokeendurance.com

 

[Larsonthegrind]

As a semi-serious road cyclist and competitor.....someone who's utilized super structured training plans.... base seasons, build phases, peaking. etc etc.. All i know is that nothing seriously compares to long Z2 training sessions. (2 hr+ are ideal) 3 hr+ rides with consistent RPM is magical.

Once you build that big block engine.....it seems to be able to take whatever you throw at it with ease

 

[work765]

Question:

I understand the majority of my cardio should be in Zone 2. But how much is supposed to be anaerobic in Zone 3/4 ?
Example: If I do cardio 4 days a week, should one of those days every week be in the higher zones? Or how often do I need to go up to tax my anaerobic?

 

[BBob]

Question:

I understand the majority of my cardio should be in Zone 2. But how much is supposed to be anaerobic in Zone 3/4 ?
Example: If I do cardio 4 days a week, should one of those days ever week be in the higher zones? Or how often do I need to go up to tax my anaerobic?

Depends on the type of program you are on. Pyramidal is the most common.

Pyramidal training zones and percent of time spent in zones:
Zones 1 & 2 ~80% You'll use zone 2 the most and zone 1 for recovery days after the harder days.
Zones 3 & 4 ~15%
Zones 5+ ~5%

Zone 1 and Zone 2 Training, Explained

beginnertriathlete.com

The percentages can vary depending on the program and what your specific goals are. The above is a common guideline. For example, on my current program (pyramidal), which has about 5 months worth of data, I'm at these percentages:

 

[P Carter]

Question:

I understand the majority of my cardio should be in Zone 2. But how much is supposed to be anaerobic in Zone 3/4 ?
Example: If I do cardio 4 days a week, should one of those days ever week be in the higher zones? Or how often do I need to go up to tax my anaerobic?

Building a base can be 100% in zone 2. At most, 20% above zone 2. A common structure would be 1 or 2 workouts per week. A running workout would include portions above zone 2. Common workouts are: intervals; uphill sprints; tempo runs. The intensity of each depends on your goals.

If you’re not training for a particular running goal, consider 1 workout per week. Alternate workouts. One week: intervals, something like 400 meters with one minute rest in between, start at 4 and work up to 8. Run as hard as you can sustain for 400 meters without slowing down on the last intervals. That’s a vo2 max workout, should be right around zone 4.

The other week: tempo run, something like 10 minutes easy, 20 minutes medium hard, 10 minutes easy. Add five minutes to the medium hard until you’re at 45 minutes medium hard. This is a lactate threshold workout. Medium hard should be right at zone 3.

If your goal is hunting, ditch these and do one uphill pack carry muscular endurance workout per week and, optional, one uphill sprint workout. (Don’t hurt yourself on these.) Uphill athlete website has good protocols for these.

These are, obviously, just suggestions, and depend on your level of fitness. I think the key is doing one or two dedicated not-just-slow-running workouts per week. They don’t have to be optimal. And keep up strength work as well.

 

[work765]

Thanks [mention]BBob [/mention]! That’s what I was looking for.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[mtwarden]

Most of my hiking includes a decent amount of ascending (and descending) and more by accident then design, that at the end of the week I'm roughly 80% Zone 2, 20% Zone 3 (a little Zone 4 sometimes)

 

[Larsonthegrind]

Question:

I understand the majority of my cardio should be in Zone 2. But how much is supposed to be anaerobic in Zone 3/4 ?
Example: If I do cardio 4 days a week, should one of those days ever week be in the higher zones? Or how often do I need to go up to tax my anaerobic?

another easy interpretation is simply 85% zone 2, 15% everything else....this is called polarized training and what and how alot of the pro tour cyclists approach training.

The thing is..... you won't really get the maximal benefits of that 15% until you build a really solid zone 2 aerobic base (which will take years, and in the short term, at least a solid base season ~3 months of 10+ hrs a week in zone 2)

But for recreational folks, the above doesn't really need to prescribed down to a tee.

As it applies to mountain-readiness/fitness, the same framework is still relevant: most of your training time should be spent on consistent, slower hikes/rucks, and a little bit of time can be dedicated to hill sprints, climbing at a threshold pace, etc.

 

[work765]

Are any of you running any specific apps to track all your data or to set mid/long term goals? I know my Apple Watch has some stuff, but I wasn’t sure if you guys were using an app(s) that are a bit more specific.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[BBob]

Are any of you running any specific apps to track all your data or to set mid/long term goals? I know my Apple Watch has some stuff, but I wasn’t sure if you guys were using an app(s) that are a bit more specific.

I only laughed at your post because I'm actually laughing at myself. I run a ridiculous amount of data gathering, and software to analyze and adjust workouts/training plan.

I'm sure there are basic data tracking apps for an Apple watch and that's what I'd look into. If you were on Garmin the Connect platform would have you covered for all you needed to know. You can also export the data to platforms like Training Peaks, Strava, intervals.icu, etc...

 

[BBob]

@work765 It looks like to export data to fitness platforms you need to use an App to do it. I see HealthFit is used by many. It also tracks and can display your data so mby that would be all you'd need? It will do the data export if you went to a fitness platform.

‎HealthFit

‎If you love working out with Apple Watch, but you need more advanced fitness stats, HealthFit is for you. By analyzing the workout data stored in Apple Health, HealthFit provides the kind of indispensable tracking and insights you normally only get from premium subscription services. But if...

apps.apple.com

SUPPORTED SYNCING PLATFORMS
Strava, TrainingPeaks, Final Surge, Selfloop, Smashrun, MapMyFitness, MapMyRun, MapMyBike, Ride with GPS, Cycling Analytics, Today's Plan, Runalyze, Suunto, 2PEAK, Xhale, Komoot, Map My Tracks, Stages Link, TrainAsONE, Tredict, Intervals.icu, Nolio, COROS. Plus export to Google Sheets, FIT and GPX file formats.

 

[mtwarden]

I'm the caveman of tracking workouts and data—keep track of the distance and that's it (will occasionally look at my HR on my watch if I'm pushing things), that's it

 

[work765]

@work765 It looks like to export data to fitness platforms you need to use an App to do it. I see HealthFit is used by many. It also tracks and can display your data so mby that would be all you'd need? It will do the data export if you went to a fitness platform.

‎HealthFit

‎If you love working out with Apple Watch, but you need more advanced fitness stats, HealthFit is for you. By analyzing the workout data stored in Apple Health, HealthFit provides the kind of indispensable tracking and insights you normally only get from premium subscription services. But if...

apps.apple.com

SUPPORTED SYNCING PLATFORMS
Strava, TrainingPeaks, Final Surge, Selfloop, Smashrun, MapMyFitness, MapMyRun, MapMyBike, Ride with GPS, Cycling Analytics, Today's Plan, Runalyze, Suunto, 2PEAK, Xhale, Komoot, Map My Tracks, Stages Link, TrainAsONE, Tredict, Intervals.icu, Nolio, COROS. Plus export to Google Sheets, FIT and GPX file formats.

I'm checking it now. Thanks!