Zen bivy vs western mtn versalite

[Coopsdaddy]

I got a zenbivy ultralight 10 degree (goose) a couple months ago and have put a couple weeks on it so far. It’s without question the most comfortable sleeping system I’ve ever used, but needs to be paired with a good pad - I’ve been using the xtherm nxt max. The first night I had it on a neoloft at 30 degrees and got a little cold.. switched to the xtherm and it’s been a lot more comfortable. Coldest I’ve had it to was 25 degrees and I definitely needed my SG puffies to stay comfortable. I find the claims that it’ll be comfortable much lower than that hard to believe, but maybe I’m just a pussy.. That being said, I’d rather sleep in this system than go back to any sleeping bag so I’ll bring a lightweight FF blanket to help when the temps look like they’ll be much colder.

Pretty bad for a 10 degree.You need puffys at 25 in a 10 degree bag.
I realize some sleep hot and some sleep cold but that’s a big difference.
Not sure why these companies can’t have a standard.
Like sleeping with underwear and bra only.
They all measure at different metrics to fudge the weights and pack size.
No way I would pay that for a 10 degree to have to bring along a blanket.
I want a Zen bivy because of all the praise but will definitely have to chat with them on temps.

 

[NICKJ]

I used a 10 degree Zenbivy in Colorado last year with no problems. Camped at 11k and temps got into low teens and was fine. No extra puffy or clothes needed.

 

[AK_cowboy]

I got a zenbivy ultralight 10 degree (goose) a couple months ago and have put a couple weeks on it so far. It’s without question the most comfortable sleeping system I’ve ever used, but needs to be paired with a good pad - I’ve been using the xtherm nxt max. The first night I had it on a neoloft at 30 degrees and got a little cold.. switched to the xtherm and it’s been a lot more comfortable. Coldest I’ve had it to was 25 degrees and I definitely needed my SG puffies to stay comfortable. I find the claims that it’ll be comfortable much lower than that hard to believe, but maybe I’m just a pussy.. That being said, I’d rather sleep in this system than go back to any sleeping bag so I’ll bring a lightweight FF blanket to help when the temps look like they’ll be much colder.

Hey man as the 25” sheet able to also fit your neoloft? I just know the wide Neoloft is 26” wide

 

[Elkangle]

The wide range of experiences cant all just be because some people are warm and cold blooded....zen bivy has a few variables...theres old and new models with potential growing pains and quality control ? light bed vs new ultra light bed... theres the obvious r rating of the matress people are using but also the shape ? Maybe a mummy cut pad doesnt work as well on a square cut sheet ? Are some people hood users while others are not ? I know using a hood is my last resort of staying warm in a bag

but everyone enjoys the increase comfort of zen bivy

With WM bags nobody complains about temp raiting but often complain about the comfort and small cut of a few of the lines..WM makes a very quality product

Curiousity is gona win this battle, worst case you guys will see a zen bivy for sale in the classifieds

 

[Coopsdaddy]

The wide range of experiences cant all just be because some people are warm and cold blooded....zen bivy has a few variables...theres old and new models with potential growing pains and quality control ? light bed vs new ultra light bed... theres the obvious r rating of the matress people are using but also the shape ? Maybe a mummy cut pad doesnt work as well on a square cut sheet ? Are some people hood users while others are not ? I know using a hood is my last resort of staying warm in a bag

but everyone enjoys the increase comfort of zen bivy

With WM bags nobody complains about temp raiting but often complain about the comfort and small cut of a few of the lines..WM makes a very quality product

Curiousity is gona win this battle, worst case you guys will see a zen bivy for sale in the classifieds

Same,I just sleep so bad it’s worth the try.
Im waiting on the next big sale,November probably and getting there lightest model in 10 degree.

 

[skierjt]

Hey man as the 25” sheet able to also fit your neoloft? I just know the wide Neoloft is 26” wide

Yup! Works great on the neoloft, super comfortable setup. Just not quite as warm as the xtherm.

 

[Formidilosus]

The wide range of experiences cant all just be because some people are warm and cold blooded....zen bivy has a few variables...theres old and new models with potential growing pains and quality control ? light bed vs new ultra light bed... theres the obvious r rating of the matress people are using but also the shape ? Maybe a mummy cut pad doesnt work as well on a square cut sheet ? Are some people hood users while others are not ? I know using a hood is my last resort of staying warm in a bag

but everyone enjoys the increase comfort of zen bivy

With WM bags nobody complains about temp raiting but often complain about the comfort and small cut of a few of the lines..WM makes a very quality product

Curiousity is gona win this battle, worst case you guys will see a zen bivy for sale in the classifieds

Ice seen a bunch of Zen Bivys used- including brand new ones. All have been excellent. I highly doubt it’s due to any QC issues. They work just fine with a mummy pad, but better with a rectangular one. And, it must be high R value.

The “wide range” of experiences is almost certainly due to people going too small and narrow on the ZB- if you read the threads where people say they got cold, almost always they side step the questions about what size they used and what pads.

 

[Elkangle]

Ice seen a bunch of Zen Bivys used- including brand new ones. All have been excellent. I highly doubt it’s due to any QC issues. They work just fine with a mummy pad, but better with a rectangular one. And, it must be high R value.

The “wide range” of experiences is almost certainly due to people going too small and narrow on the ZB- if you read the threads where people say they got cold, almost always they side step the questions about what size they used and what pads.

Appreciate the thoughts, i can see sizing biting people with there sizing chart...alot of 5'8" people prolly wana get the regular

Any thoughts on goose down vs muscovey fills ? Ultra sonic muscovey vs expedry muscovey vs the goose ?

 

[nephewjephew]

First time I used a zb 25 I got cold. It was in the upper 20s. I was sleeping on a deck. I was a little upset until I woke up and realized my pad had popped over night. Not one problem since.

Used a zb 10 Muscovy for the rewarming drill this winter. Don’t remember the temp but I think it was single digits. Worked like a champ. If memory serves we where out there 4-5 hours and I was drying out by the time they woke us up. I feel confident I would have been dry by morning.

If you’re a side sleeper or move around at night there is no equal. Biggest considerations 1 get the biggest quilt. It is very much like sleeping in a bed with a comforter. 2 it must be paired with a good pad.

In my limited experience the Muscovy is legit.
ETA - exped Muscovy

They run deals all the time.

 

[skierjt]

Ice seen a bunch of Zen Bivys used- including brand new ones. All have been excellent. I highly doubt it’s due to any QC issues. They work just fine with a mummy pad, but better with a rectangular one. And, it must be high R value.

The “wide range” of experiences is almost certainly due to people going too small and narrow on the ZB- if you read the threads where people say they got cold, almost always they side step the questions about what size they used and what pads.

Didn’t even realize there was a size option..

Welp if anyone wants a regular I’ll be ordering a large

 

[Dobermann]

While I don't have as many nights in a Zen Bivy, or in as cold temps, as many here, I can add that I've used some high-end down and synthetic bags, and have been the warmest, and slept the best, in my Zen Bivy.

Followed @Formidilosus's advice about size, and went with the correct temp-rated rectangular Exped mat (also in long, wide, as per Form) and sleep better in that combo than I do in my own bed.

 

[SixStrings]

Years back, coming from a UL backpacking background I had a few bad experiences using quilts in colder temperatures and almost gave up on them until my GF showed me the zenbivy system. I dismissed it initially due to "weight". It was another year until I got my hands on one and can say in hindsight I was just mad stupid.
3-4 times a year I switch to a sleeping bag, but it just reminds me how much I prefer the Zenbivy.

Looking at experience/thoughts on the two bags

what position do you sleep in?

assuming everyome is getting goose down or muscovy down that could be a difference in the loft/temp rating ?

Negative. I am using all 3 Zenbivy light down quilts (duck down). Some of the people I'm with use the same models, we also have synthetic models and one person has the new muscovy down.

If I bought a zenbivy tomorrow it would be the light XL with a closed footbox (fast footbox) and a full length insulated sheet. If I could only have one its gonna be the 10°F model. Good experiences with it down to 0°F. We used the 10°F model and the -5°F model on a winter trip last year side by side and at least down to 0°F we could not notice any real difference between them.I accidentally tested the 25°F model this year at 19°F and only found out about it in the morning. Countless nights with that model between 25 and 30°F, usually have no issues catching good sleep all the way through the night.
Having said that, as soon as temps generally get around or below freezing, I switch to the 10°F model.

Looking at numbers and especially weight seems to tend to deter people from some good decisions. For us, sleep has become one of the parts of backpacking we look forward to the most now and good and thick sleeping pads, a decent pillow, proper sleep prep and the zenbivy system were the ticket.

 

[Elkangle]

Years back, coming from a UL backpacking background I had a few bad experiences using quilts in colder temperatures and almost gave up on them until my GF showed me the zenbivy system. I dismissed it initially due to "weight". It was another year until I got my hands on one and can say in hindsight I was just mad stupid.
3-4 times a year I switch to a sleeping bag, but it just reminds me how much I prefer the Zenbivy.

what position do you sleep in?

Negative. I am using all 3 Zenbivy light down quilts (duck down). Some of the people I'm with use the same models, we also have synthetic models and one person has the new muscovy down.
View attachment 1094074
If I bought a zenbivy tomorrow it would be the light XL with a closed footbox (fast footbox) and a full length insulated sheet. If I could only have one its gonna be the 10°F model. Good experiences with it down to 0°F. We used the 10°F model and the -5°F model on a winter trip last year side by side and at least down to 0°F we could not notice any real difference between them.I accidentally tested the 25°F model this year at 19°F and only found out about it in the morning. Countless nights with that model between 25 and 30°F, usually have no issues catching good sleep all the way through the night.
Having said that, as soon as temps generally get around or below freezing, I switch to the 10°F model.

Looking at numbers and especially weight seems to tend to deter people from some good decisions. For us, sleep has become one of the parts of backpacking we look forward to the most now and good and thick sleeping pads, a decent pillow, proper sleep prep and the zenbivy system were the ticket.

Appreciate the reply, i sleep in all positions which is why zen bivy is on my radar...pretty common to never zip up my mummys and just use them as a quilt, i use the mummy hood mostly to hold my puffer jacket stuffed into a hoody as my pillow...but i do like the idea of being able to zip up and heat up in a hurry esp on some of these cold weather river trips...the rewarming drill is a reality

 

[TradLife406]

I have a v lite. I'm 5'9 and 205'ish. It's too small for me.
I ended up buying a windstopper badger last year. I love that thing. In the mornings Id stuff it into my pack then use it to stay warm glassing. After I shot my bull going back to camp wasnt an option. Sure glad I had my sleeping bag.

I am curious about the ZB's.

 

[Ckat]

Years back, coming from a UL backpacking background I had a few bad experiences using quilts in colder temperatures and almost gave up on them until my GF showed me the zenbivy system. I dismissed it initially due to "weight". It was another year until I got my hands on one and can say in hindsight I was just mad stupid.
3-4 times a year I switch to a sleeping bag, but it just reminds me how much I prefer the Zenbivy.

what position do you sleep in?

Negative. I am using all 3 Zenbivy light down quilts (duck down). Some of the people I'm with use the same models, we also have synthetic models and one person has the new muscovy down.
View attachment 1094074
If I bought a zenbivy tomorrow it would be the light XL with a closed footbox (fast footbox) and a full length insulated sheet. If I could only have one its gonna be the 10°F model. Good experiences with it down to 0°F. We used the 10°F model and the -5°F model on a winter trip last year side by side and at least down to 0°F we could not notice any real difference between them.I accidentally tested the 25°F model this year at 19°F and only found out about it in the morning. Countless nights with that model between 25 and 30°F, usually have no issues catching good sleep all the way through the night.
Having said that, as soon as temps generally get around or below freezing, I switch to the 10°F model.

Looking at numbers and especially weight seems to tend to deter people from some good decisions. For us, sleep has become one of the parts of backpacking we look forward to the most now and good and thick sleeping pads, a decent pillow, proper sleep prep and the zenbivy system were the ticket.

What pad(s) — specifically R-values — are you using with those setups?

 

[SixStrings]

i sleep in all positions which is why zen bivy is on my radar

in that case you will also benefit from the system more than someone who is purely a back sleeper

but i do like the idea of being able to zip up and heat up in a hurry

you wont feel warmth buildup any slower than in a traditional mummy bag, as long as you get the XL.
Whats your size and build?
I'm 6 ft, 160lbs and I can - if we are not moving around too much - even have my GF who is 5'3ft with me in it and we still don't have any drafts. It's not comfortable, as in neither of us is able to move freely, but in a pinch both of us can at least stay warm. This is to say the XL is massive and I can more than completely wrap myself with substantial overlap. As soon as I can I will provide a picture, but it will be a few days until I am back home.

on some of these cold weather river trips...the rewarming drill is a reality

I can't say I have personal experience with "cold weather river trips" and the amount of moisture you have to deal with here. Do you mean travelling alongside a river or using boats/packrafts on the river?

 

[SixStrings]

What pad(s) — specifically R-values — are you using with those setups?

The most used Pad is the Zenbivy light pad, we have 5 of them among us, it has an advertised R-value of 5.2 and that tracks with our experiences, but we never use inflatable pads just by themselves. Something like the Exped doublemat (equivalent to the SO Matty McMat face) or a Therm-A-Rest Z lite goes underneath and gives us Insurance and added R-value. Esp. in snow I like that if my body does ever come off the mat or my hips touch the ground it's not excruciating.
I also use an Exped Dura 6R (R-value of 5.8) - closing in on 100 nights on that one - and an Exped Megamat lite 12 (R-Value of 5.2; 5 inches thick). That thing would almost be my preferred Pad to use if weight is not of the utmost priority. It feels way warmer than it should given its R-Value and its so thick I can actually sit on it (fully inflated) and my butt is off the ground, I can also deflate it enough that side sleeping is no issue at all and it feels bigger because of the 3D construction. Unfortunately, leaks around the valves seem to occur more than on other Exped pads. I had to re-seal around the valves only once so far and it's fine for now, but I need to regain trust in it. An ofc Exped discontinued it and changed the model, probably to compete with therm-a-rests NeoLoft, dropping the R-value down to 4.4 and reducing the weight and thickness.
I also have an ancient NeoAir xlite that feels surprisingly comfortable, but due to it's R-value sees little use these days.
I am starting to notice a mismatch between R-Values and individual experiences and am getting the impression they might not tell the whole story of how warm a pad feels.

 

[Elkangle]

in that case you will also benefit from the system more than someone who is purely a back sleeper


you wont feel warmth buildup any slower than in a traditional mummy bag, as long as you get the XL.
Whats your size and build?
I'm 6 ft, 160lbs and I can - if we are not moving around too much - even have my GF who is 5'3ft with me in it and we still don't have any drafts. It's not comfortable, as in neither of us is able to move freely, but in a pinch both of us can at least stay warm. This is to say the XL is massive and I can more than completely wrap myself with substantial overlap. As soon as I can I will provide a picture, but it will be a few days until I am back home.


I can't say I have personal experience with "cold weather river trips" and the amount of moisture you have to deal with here. Do you mean travelling alongside a river or using boats/packrafts on the river?

Interesting, im 5'8" 170 and was gona go large exped dry muscovy

And yeah packrafts, daily river crossings

 

[SixStrings]

5'8" 170 and was gona go large exped dry muscovy

I dont have an opinion on the muscovy yet, I'm waiting for next winter to really put it through its paces. But yeah I have one. In large actually....for my 5'3 partner.
Like, I really dont want to tell you what to do, please dont take it that way.
but I would like to know why the large?
also if you need further info or some pictures, measurements, etc. of that one I can get them to you in 1 or 2 days. Just tell me what you want to know.

 

[Elkangle]

I dont have an opinion on the muscovy yet, I'm waiting for next winter to really put it through its paces. But yeah I have one. In large actually....for my 5'3 partner.
Like, I really dont want to tell you what to do, please dont take it that way.
but I would like to know why the large?
also if you need further info or some pictures, measurements, etc. of that one I can get them to you in 1 or 2 days. Just tell me what you want to know.

Your good im not sensitive in my zen bivy sizing thoughts but zen bivy says in there sizing that a reg fits up to 5'8"...the general thought is to size up so i figured a large would be fine