Youth elk rifle/cartridge combo

[acmckeage03]

They also can penetrate more than 3 or 4 inches OP in less than ideal conditions.

Will your daughter 100% have ideal conditions?

Absolutely not, we all know every hunting scenario produces variables. However, we try our best to prepare, in training and research.

 

[acmckeage03]

I was 10 when i started hunting deer. Handled a 30-30 with 150 core lokts just fine, shot well also. My first struggle as a hunter was buck fever. Thats a real thing.

Absolutely, unfortunately everyone has different amounts of adrenaline in the first kill and those after. It takes experience to understand how to control it. The one thing going for her is how may animals she has already seen shot.

 

[westslopelaker]

Do you feel this was a complete package or are there any upgrades you feel it needs?

No upgrades needed from my perspective, it is high quality

 

[Timberline001]

Parents,

Fortunately, my daughter just drew a phenomenal elk tag. Unfortunately, I'm caught without a rifle for her. Please, help me decide on a rifle to build/buy.

My daughter is 10 and will need an LOP sub 12.5"

She's not tough when it comes to recoil.

Rifle will have a suppressor which I’m open for recommendations as well.

Cartridge- I was going to build a 6.5 PRC and reduce load it similar to a creedmore to practice for the summer. Then sight it in to full loads before the hunt. Or I can just go creedmore route (I'm just trying to get myself as much performance as possible since we are sitting in the gray area of ethical)

Rifle- I was shopping tikka compact, savage axis 2 pro, bergara stoke. Initially, it was the tikka and I was going to put it on a stock until I started shopping and am having extreme difficulty finding a short LOP. So, I switched over to the Sig Cross. Again, trying to get the best numbers as possible I'm giving up a 20" barrel for an 18" in this case.

Would you be willing to share your opinion on youth and elk and what rifle/caliber combo you'd be taking?

Thank you,

Aaron McKeage



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I killed all my first bulls as a kid with a .243 and 95 gr partitions. You’re definitely not in a grey area of ethically with a 6.5 creedmoor. If she can shoot it well with a can that’ll be great, if not a 6 creed with 108 eldms will be great too!

 

[eric1115]

They also can penetrate more than 3 or 4 inches OP in less than ideal conditions.

Will your daughter 100% have ideal conditions?

Honest question for you - have you read the big .223 thread? I went into it super skeptical, but there are countless photos of wrecked elk from lots of different shot angles, dead moose shot through the shoulder, etc. the 6mm thread has same, plus bigger (and much taller) animals.

Do you think those wounds photographed are insufficient? Do you think those animals were shot with larger bullets and then the shooter lied and said a smaller bullet was used?

Do you think all of us who have made the switch to small diameter, heavy for caliber match bullets are lying about the results we are getting?

As far as I know, every person recommending the .223/TMK is recommending it not because it sounds good, but rather because they use it and it works for them.

 

[acmckeage03]

I killed all my first bulls as a kid with a .243 and 95 gr partitions. You’re definitely not in a grey area of ethically with a 6.5 creedmoor. If she can shoot it well with a can that’ll be great, if not a 6 creed with 108 eldms will be great too!

Thanks for the reassurance! I keep hearing guys mention this 6CM and elk in the same sentence. Which would you pick?

 

[The Harbor Master]

Please make sure she can shoot well. The elk deserve it.

Don’t listen to the .22s are elk rifles crowd. Cant wait for that unethical fad to pass.

Having a hard time squaring these 2 statements. He said she's 10 and doesn't do well with recoil. You honestly think a 6.5 PRC is a better choice than a .22CM in the hands of a recoil-shy 10 year old?

Sorry, I realize the "small caliber" argument is like 80% of this forum and I usually don't get involved because the horse can only be beat so much. But this comment struck me.

Anyway, I would vote for 6ARC. Shockingly light recoil, especially suppressed. We have a 10yr old bean pole of a girl and she handles it pretty well. She does prefer the .223 though.

 

[eric1115]

Thanks for the reassurance! I keep hearing guys mention this 6CM and elk in the same sentence. Which would you pick?

If you are a podcast guy, listen to episodes 469 and 470 of the Hunt Backcountry Podcast (youtube or whatever podcast app you prefer). No matter whether you end up with a dinky little 22 cal or 6mm, or something larger with more WHALLOP™, you'll have a much better understanding of how bullets kill critters, and what needs to be considered when choosing a bullet and cartridge.

 

[acmckeage03]

Having a hard time squaring these 2 statements. He said she's 10 and doesn't do well with recoil. You honestly think a 6.5 PRC is a better choice than a .22CM in the hands of a recoil-shy 10 year old?

Sorry, I realize the "small caliber" argument is like 80% of this forum and I usually don't get involved because the horse can only be beat so much. But this comment struck me.

Anyway, I would vote for 6ARC. Shockingly light recoil, especially suppressed. We have a 10yr old bean pole of a girl and she handles it pretty well. She does prefer the .223 though.

Thank you, I appreciate the simple, direct and relatable answer!

 

[Bluefish]

Thanks for the reassurance! I keep hearing guys mention this 6CM and elk in the same sentence. Which would you pick?

The advantage of the cm over the 243 is it will handle heavier bullets from the factory unless you get one of the new tikka 1:8 twist 243. If you decide on a 6mm, then between 6 arc, gt, 243, cm, it’s all the same bullet, just faster or slower. Btw I believe 6mm is legal in all states for elk.

I am built a deer rifle for my 11 year old nephew this year. We are limited to 35 cal or larger, so no 223 or 6mm. 350 legend is the lowest recoil cartridge, and I went AR platform as the barrel was $80 and I have parts to finish the rest. Also semi auto is tends to be less felt recoil. Adjustable stock instead of having to buy a youth stock. I would have used my 6 arc if I could, but not legal.

 

[TradLife406]

I bought my girls an Sig Cross in 6.5 C.
The recoil was brutal even for me. Rebarreled it to 22 Creed with a 16" barrel. We all enjoy it a lot more.

I think with running hot and even factory 6.5 C with that stock design the recoil feels really harsh.

But in Montana there's a lot of elk dying with 22 cals and it's legal. If it wasn't I'd go 6 Creed.

I do really love the Sig for a kid gun. The whole family can shoot it with a quick stock adjustment.

Not sure why Sig won't sell just the gun minus a barrel.

Barrel swaps are a pain. To do it again I'll have a professional do it.

My buddy is a prs shooter at a high level. He can swap barrels with his eyes closed. But that Cross kicked his ass.

 

[justin davis]

What rifle was it?

It’s a tikka

 

[acmckeage03]

I bought my girls an Sig Cross in 6.5 C.
The recoil was brutal even for me. Rebarreled it to 22 Creed with a 16" barrel. We all enjoy it a lot more.

I think with running hot and even factory 6.5 C with that stock design the recoil feels really harsh.

But in Montana there's a lot of elk dying with 22 cals and it's legal. If it wasn't I'd go 6 Creed.

I do really love the Sig for a kid gun. The whole family can shoot it with a quick stock adjustment.

Not sure why Sig won't sell just the gun minus a barrel.

Barrel swaps are a pain. To do it again I'll have a professional do it.

My buddy is a prs shooter at a high level. He can swap barrels with his eyes closed. But that Cross kicked his ass.

Do you think this is mainly due to the metal chassis?

 

[LongWayAround]

Check out the 6mm and 6.5mm kill threads. There are plenty of large animals in there. The 6.5CM is not in any sort of a "grey area" for being effective and ethical.

I really like that stock on the Bergara Stoke, but I dislike that the bolt does not lock down when on safe. My one Bergara is very accurate, but I also had the bolt shroud shear off at the range.

The Tikka is a much better rifle overall in my opinion.

For your use, I think you should buy two rifles if the money isn't an issue. Set up a .223 for you and your kids as a trainer and pick your flavor of .243/6mm or 6.5mm.

If you buy a 6.5, you could always have her practice with the 95gr VMAX or 100 ELD-VT and load a 130-140 class bullet for hunting. Felt recoil during practice would be the same as a .243/6CM.

 

[acmckeage03]

Check out the 6mm and 6.5mm kill threads. There are plenty of large animals in there. The 6.5CM is not in any sort of a "grey area" for being effective and ethical.

I really like that stock on the Bergara Stoke, but I dislike that the bolt does not lock down when on safe. My one Bergara is very accurate, but I also had the bolt shroud shear off at the range.

The Tikka is a much better rifle overall in my opinion.

For your use, I think you should buy two rifles if the money isn't an issue. Set up a .223 for you and your kids as a trainer and pick your flavor of .243/6mm or 6.5mm.

If you buy a 6.5, you could always have her practice with the 95gr VMAX or 100 ELD-VT and load a 130-140 class bullet for hunting. Felt recoil during practice would be the same as a .243/6CM.

Thank you, I’m settling in on this! Next issue is LOP. I wanted to go Tikka but also would like to replace the stock outside of cutting down a McMillan MDT has one options that’s $1200 which I feel is a little steep for my purpose.