Youth - 243 or 7mm-08 (break & sub pressed)?

[passinggas33]

Unsolicited advice coming…get them a 6ARC if the .223 is not legal in your state. The more I shoot that little cartridge the more impressed I am with it. Others may disagree but it has less recoil that the 243 and shoots heavier bullets from the factory.

 

[SloppyJ]

My 7yo got his first rifle this year. I was in the same boat. I went with a Tikka .223 cut down to 16" and threaded for a can. He can shoot that rifle much better than I thought. I'm extremely happy I didn't get anything bigger.

Go that route 100% without question. He's not scared or even a bit timid with it. He shot 3 deer with it last year and smoked them all thanks to his shooting and 77tmks.

Theres no better first rifle. It will be my truck gun after my younger son uses it too. It's a solid setup.

 

[eric1115]

What’s the age/size of kid in video for reference?

14 years old at the time of that video, probably 5'5" and 110lb soaking wet.

 

[Blind Squirrel]

@Blind Squirrel I am using your daughter’s video for the example- nothing personal.



For all the people that are claiming 243win, 6.5cm, 7mm-08, etc “don’t recoil”- you are clueless.

This is a 243. Look at the head movement and gun movement.

This is where her head starts right before recoil-
View attachment 838432

Then starting recoil-
View attachment 838434


Mid recoil-
View attachment 838435


At the end of recoil-
View attachment 838436



The difference in head movement between start and stop-
View attachment 838437


That’s a 6-8 inch snap of the head in an extremely short time frame- that’s getting into TBI levels.

10 ft-lbs of recoil for an 80lb person is akin to a 338 RUM for a normal adult male, and when you factor the massive difference in muscle mass, especially in the neck and shoulders to hold the head still- it is a huge level of recoil to the brain.

Yes we all learned as a kid on 12ga and 300 win mags- I certainly did. It doesn’t mean it was right, and it doesn’t mean it didn’t cause damage.

This hurts my feelings…more than the recoil hurt her. J/k

 

[JGRaider]

Started my son on a .223 youth model 7 until he was about 11, then graduated to a Tikka T3 7mm08. He was always small for his age, but he killed the crap out of everything he shot with that rifle including 25 or so aoudad, several whitetails, several muley bucks, and a couple of antelope. It was paired with a mild 2600fps 120 nosler BT making it a real pussycat. Rifle wore a Leupold VX3 2.5-8x36.

 

[juju]

All this talk about cartridge and the girl is shooting with the rifle resting by the barrel. That's another reason ARs with long handguards are a good choice.

This list is percent difference of recoil from 243 assuming all rifles are 7.5#.

60gr 223 -65%
170gr 357 -55%
60gr 22-250 -41%
123gr 6.5 Grendel -29%
-----------------------------------------------
100gr 257 Roberts -6%
100gr 243 0%
150gr 30-30 3%
240gr .44mag 16%
120gr 6.5 Creedmoor 17%

 

[CMF]

In regards to recoil, know that some rifles(like the ruger american) have weight kits that can add weight to the gun.
Clamping the gun into a BOG aluminum deathgrip(that weighs 8lbs.) will help too. If we're whitetail hunting, it's usually from a ground blind with the BOG. that is how my kids took their first deer.

 

[Nessie85]

I've been using a Ruger American Compact in .243 for my girls the last several years and honestly it was pushing it on what they could handle. Suppressed it, and did a reduced recoil load with IMR 4895 and 85 gr SGK and now it feels like a pellet gun. They enjoy shooting and it carries velocity further than they are going to be shooting.

 

[Felix40]

I think a full load with 243 or 7-08 is too much for a 7 year old.

I started my son at 8 with a 243 and reduced his loads way down. He killed an elk with it no problem. Now he’s 10 and weighs 95lbs but I have no plans to up him to hot loads. He currently has no bad habits and can shoot really well from field positions. No fear of the gun at all. The last thing I want to do is screw that up.

I’ve been carrying that gun around and using it myself to test bullets. The 90gr eldx, at the super reduced 2,500fps, has given me the fastest kills.

 

[Erussell01]

@Blind Squirrel I am using your daughter’s video for the example- nothing personal.



For all the people that are claiming 243win, 6.5cm, 7mm-08, etc “don’t recoil”- you are clueless.

This is a 243. Look at the head movement and gun movement.

This is where her head starts right before recoil-
View attachment 838432

Then starting recoil-
View attachment 838434


Mid recoil-
View attachment 838435


At the end of recoil-
View attachment 838436



The difference in head movement between start and stop-
View attachment 838437


That’s a 6-8 inch snap of the head in an extremely short time frame- that’s getting into TBI levels.

10 ft-lbs of recoil for an 80lb person is akin to a 338 RUM for a normal adult male, and when you factor the massive difference in muscle mass, especially in the neck and shoulders to hold the head still- it is a huge level of recoil to the brain.

Yes we all learned as a kid on 12ga and 300 win mags- I certainly did. It doesn’t mean it was right, and it doesn’t mean it didn’t cause damage.

Form you always post stuff up right when I need it. My 223 has been so boringly easy to shoot all summer I was considering using the excuse to buy a 243/6cm for my 1 year old son to use for his future deer rifle but now I'm rethinking. 223 it is for him until he is big enough to do something else.

 

[coyotekilla]

I like an ar15 carbine, suppressed. Put it in a tripod, put ONE shell in it. As for the cartridge, 223, arcs, 6.5 grendel, 300 blk. Heck im a full grown ,an and I choose my grendel & 223 alot.

 

[Formidilosus]

Form you always post stuff up right when I need it. My 223 has been so boringly easy to shoot all summer I was considering using the excuse to buy a 243/6cm for my 1 year old son to use for his future deer rifle but now I'm rethinking. 223 it is for him until he is nig enough to do something else.

I’m glad it’s of some use.

Recoil effects to the brain understudied thing, but all evidence points to real issues with people- especially smaller framed people. 223, lets alone 6ARC, 6 BR, etc are such monster rounds terminally, that there really isn’t a reason to expose people to recoil.

 

[PathFinder]

We just went through this with my two oldest. Daughter is 12, son is 10. Previously, both of them had only shot rimfire, both .22 and 17 HMR. Both were very confident, though the boy had a tendency to jerk the trigger and look outside the scope. The girl had no such bad habits and seemed to hit whatever she pointed a rifle at. With the 17 HMR, hitting a 10" plate at 200 was no problem both prone and sitting from a tripod.
Introducing them to a 25 WSSM shooting full throttle loads (8.5 lb gun, stock modified with flat toe and negative comb, 100gr bullets at 3150) and a 243 AI (8.5lb gun, stock also modified, 115 DTAC at 3000) caused all sorts of problems. Both started to flinch and spray bullets all over the target. 3 MOA groups became 8+ at 100 yards, and both were very uncomfortable shooting those rifles.
Going back to a 223 helped. After about 10 rounds, they started to settle in and gain some confidence back. We moved to some reduced loads (40 gr Varget, 87 Speer TNT, 3090 fps) in the 25 WSSM. That helped, but it took a few shots for her to get confidence back. Adding a heavier scope and can to the 243 AI, along with dropping to a 1.5gr/100 fps slower load allowed her to shoot that more confidently. That said, neither setup is ideal at this point and the recoil is still a factor. If we weren't in Colorado, they wouldn't be shooting anything but a 223 for several more years at least. Since we live in a state where the unqualified were allowed to make rules to satisfy the incompetent, a ~9lb suppressed 6x45 will probably be in our future.

 

[NM13]

I edited these so that if you hit play at the same time, the recoil impulse happens about the same time. At first watch they don't look crazy different, but if you watch them a couple times you can see significant differences in how far and how fast the body, neck, and head move.

What are the weights of these rifles?