Your feelings regarding NR guides in your state?

[AK Troutbum]

While I was reading through the thread about "non residents moving into your neck of the woods" it got me thinking. What are your feeling regarding non-resident guides (both hunting and fishing) guiding in your state. I'm sure that in much of the lower 48 this is a non issue, but up here there are a lot of non-resident guides, both in the fishing and hunting industries. Most folks that I've had this conversation with, take issue with non-residents guiding in AK. I don't have any concrete numbers but from my experience it sure seems that the NR guides up here out number the resident guides, and probably by a fair amount. The thought of someone that comes up here from out of state and makes their living off the state of Alaska's natural resources for part of the year, then leaves and spends it somewhere else, and contributes next to nothing to our economy definitely rubs me the wrong way. They pay no state income tax (Alaska doesn't have a state income tax. Although this may be changing soon), no property tax, and spend very little money within the state that helps to support our state. Then to add a little insult to injury, there are laws that make it illegal for a non-resident to come up here and hunt particular species of game without hiring a guide, which in many cases is a non-resident. This makes absolutely no sense to me. I could have been born, raised, and lived in Alaska most of my life, killed every species of big game animals that Alaska has to offer, move out of state and take up residence some place else, and if I want to come back to Alaska to hunt mountain goat, Dall sheep, brown bear, to name a few, I have to hire a guide and pay upwards of tens of thousands of dollars to someone who could very well not have a fraction of the experience hunting Alaskan big game as I do. Thoughts??

 

[BigAntlerGetter]

I don't have much of a problem hiring guides from out of state, to me if someone wants to guide they should have a chance but I also hope they will stay on with me for a few years rather than coming guiding and leaving. But also I don't hire guides from out of state that have never done that type of hunting, elk and deer hunting Colorado wilderness can blow someone's mind who has only hunting let's say whiteys in Kansas. I want my clients to have the best chance at killing and not having a clueless person guiding someone that may also have no clue.

Personally I have a bigger problem with other outfitters guiding in different states, paying an outfitter to hunt on his permits for a big time client makes me mad. It's taking away from that outfitter that has the permits why can't he guide this client that is paying another outfitter upwards of 10 grand with this coveted tag? Personally if I ever have one of these guys call me to use my permits to guide a hunter I will turn them down regardless of what they offer and if I then catch them on my permits with notify authorities. I work hard to keep my permits, keep my area pristine and give my clients the best possible chance.


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[Floorguy]

Alaska's law is asinine, if a person can't legally hunt the species themselves there should be no way they are able to be a guide to allow others to hunt said species.

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[Jon Boy]

I can see the frustration of money being made in the state and not spent there. It happens in many other states in various industries as well. The outfitters I've talked to say they don't have many residents that want to guide and they have to hire some one. I highly doubt an outfitter would hire a NR greenhorn over a resident, ever. As far as the non resident law, its dumb, but its to protect stupid people from getting lost and hurting themselves in the bush. Registered non resident guides have pre requirements that they have to meet to prove that aren't a retard that's going to get them and their hunter hurt or lost. I wish they could do that for NR DIY hunters as well but thats not the case. Thats my take on it.

 

[BigAntlerGetter]

I agree with the pre requisites required to obtaining a guiding license, in Colorado it's not required I've heard of hunters who got sent out with a greenhorn and they didn't say it was a bad hunt the guy just had almost no idea. They all killed they said but I guess when an area may be that good you don't have to have a ton of experience. I will hire a greenhorn but he isn't going out with my hunters alone he will be with another seasoned guide to learn the ropes. And all my guides pack in camps with me so I can get a feel for their packing skills. If it came down to me having to hire nothing but greenhorns I have enough buddies that would jump on board in a heart beat to help me out that have been hunting the area their whole life. In a way I wish Colorado was like Wyoming where you had to be with a guide in wilderness areas, an no that's not so I can make myself more money but because wilderness areas can be a whole different game for a lot of people. But the way it is is how it is, and I will say I would be surprised if a lot of a guides paycheck even makes it out of the state after a full season of guiding, a lot is spent in between seasons buying new gear. But you have to look at a lot of stuff to how many people buy all their hunting gear from a hometown store? Ordering it online does the same thing it puts the money out of the state, the closes cabelas to me is a 2 hr drive same with sportsmans and bass pro so online ordering is a big deal for me. I do support one of my home town mom and pop stores as much as I can as they can order me in a ton of stuff but the amount of time it takes for me to get it can be way to late.


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[archer wapiti]

I can see where that'd rub me the wrong way too, but we're both very close to the hunting way of life. One thing I learned living up there for three years is that you don't meet too many native Alaskans (and I'm not talking about indigenous heritage). It's a mix of all kinds of people. Some of whom are up there seasonally, some who were going for a few years and never left, and some who live there for a few years and leave for whatever reason. On the flip side, I've met several native Alaskans living here in New Mexico.
Looking at the broader picture in Alaska, how do you feel about all the seasonal jobs in the tourism, commercial fishing industry or wildlife biology tech positions in your state? I'd venture to say it's thousands of jobs per year that out-of-staters take, and then go back outside before the snow flies without spending much of that money in the state where it was earned. And how many Alaskans go outside during the offseason to find work?

 

[colonel00]

I think it happens quite a bit in the lower 48 but it isn't as apparent and it doesn't align with guide requirement laws like in Alaska where you have to have a guide to hunt some species as a non-res. I know there are a couple wilderness areas in Wyoming where you have to have a guide as a non-res but it is area specific and not species specific. I'm not as familiar with other states.

One thing I found interesting with the guiding lifestyle is that many guides will follow the seasons as well. Granted this is all from talking with folks as I've never guided myself. But, my buddies brother used to guide up in the U.P. of Michigan to get the first crack at ducks and geese. He'd then move down to where he lived in Illinois to guide during their seasons there. As the winter progressed, he eventually moved to guide in Mexico. Now, part of this was due to the migration of the waterfowl but he was also limited by the seasons.

I know it isn't a direct comparison to big game guides in Alaska but there are similarities.

I guess one question I would ask is whether there are Alaskan resident guides/outfitters that are loosing out on work because of the NR guides or if these spots are just vacant and being filled as necessary? As someone above alluded, is there a line of resident guides that want to work but can't find the opportunity?

 

[WRO]

In Ak the outdoor guiding season is short, one basically has from 8/10 until 9/20 and a month in the spring, in the lower 48 you can add 3-6 more months of hunting. When I guided fishermen in AK, there was no way to cover the winter on the short season, I could fish the other 9 months in oregon and keep an income flowing.

It's simple economics..

I'd personally

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[JP100]

This is a very interesting topic. I am one of these non residents guides. Not in the USA but I have done 2 seasons in BC wrangling and guiding. It is very easy (too easy) to get a guides licence and it is strange that I can guide some one but not hunt my self. Both the outfits I worked for had more New Zealanders than Canadians working there. Why is there a lack of resident guides? There are hundreds of kiwis guides in Canada and most outfits I know rely on them every season because they just can't find Canadians willing to do the work???

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[adventure907]

Well, I am an Alaskan born and raised guide. My understanding is, it was a Supreme Court decision (not sure if state or federal court) that ruled you cannot prohibit a non resident from working in another state, and therefore the state of Alaska cannot legally prohibit a non resident from working as a guide.

On another note, if any of your lower 48 or Canadian outfitters are looking for a guide, I'd like to expand my horizons and try something different. I know, the irony of it all.