Your deer rifle--why'd you choose .243 or 6.5 CM?

[hereinaz]

Yea modern pressure stuff. Was shooting them side by side and it was a wtf moment LOL

Weird. Would not expect that. To me it’s gotta be something with the difference in case size and powder burn/pressure curve with the Swede and bullet size.

What are the two powders you are using?

I wonder what the difference would be shooting the heavier class 6.5 bullets where the difference is double the 18 grain difference. The bearing surfaces of the bullets relatively speaking, etc that go along with the difference in size.

My experience and apples to apples I can’t see how the 6 creed would be more than the 6.5 creed shooting 108 vs 140 grain bullets from the same case with about the same powder.

 

[Shootinsurveyor]

The part about the muzzle blast being increased with the 243 Savage over the Tikka 6.5CM could be because the Tikka has a longer barrel. i know that a lot of Tikkas have a 24 inch barrel with the 6.5CM.

Maybe, but the Savage has a 22" barrel and the Tikka has the 24" so I wouldnt expect a tremendous difference in blast. Funny some others have observed/felt the same thing as me as I figured it was just my perception.
The 243 came along after I got sick of a light 308 and then the 6.5CM came along as a gift. I loved my 243, but I love my 6.5CM even more.

 

[Shootinsurveyor]

Weird. Would not expect that. To me it’s gotta be something with the difference in case size and powder burn/pressure curve with the Swede and bullet size.

What are the two powders you are using?

I wonder what the difference would be shooting the heavier class 6.5 bullets where the difference is double the 18 grain difference. The bearing surfaces of the bullets relatively speaking, etc that go along with the difference in size.

My experience and apples to apples I can’t see how the 6 creed would be more than the 6.5 creed shooting 108 vs 140 grain bullets from the same case with about the same powder.

I can say that my reloads for the 243 are 105 Amax over 39Gr of H4350. 6.5CM loads are 140Gr BTHP over 41.5 H4350. Not burners by any means compared to what else you see on the interwebs.

 

[Fartrell Cluggins]

A good bit of the conversation has focused on the 6 Creed. Just as the 6.5 Creed is a a few minor improvements on the 260 Remington, so too is the 6 Creed over the 243. The 6 Creed hasn't really taken off though. When the 6.5 Creed came out, mainstream manufacturers soon followed with a lot of traditional hunting rifle offerings. I just checked Sportsman's Warehouse website. They catalog 67 6 Creed offerings, 204 243 offerings and a staggering 603 6.5 Creed rifles. When you look at the 6 Creed Rifles, fully 3/4 of them are of a "tactical" appearance. Of those that aren't tactical looking, most are over $1500. Only two, a Ruger American and a Howa are in the $600 range. Compare that to the .243 and 6.5 Creed offerings, and you come to understand why the 6 Creed has languished somewhat.

 

[Rich M]

I got a 243 before 6.5 CM was invented. Prefer 350 Legend and 357 mag rifle for close in hunting. Looking for another sissy-level recoil rifle for myself that is 300-400 yard capable.

I will throw in that my Tikka 6.5CM has less recoil and less muzzle blast than my Savage 243. The recoil impulse is sharper in the 243. Neither is bad, but I would pick the 6.5CM for shooting comfort any day over the 243.

243 bullet is faster. That's why the impulse is diff.

 

[mtnwrunner]

. 244 minus .020 is??
Just sayin.......

Randy

 

[Fartrell Cluggins]

. 244 minus .020 is??
Just sayin.......

Randy

A cult?

 

[mtnwrunner]

A cult?

Is it a cult if it works??

RNdy

 

[5811]

A cult?

A cult or occult?

 

[Fartrell Cluggins]

It does work, and I am unapologetically a crusading member of the cult.

 

[mtnwrunner]

It does work, and I am unapologetically a crusading member of the cult.

Atta boy.

Randy

 

[Fartrell Cluggins]

Atta boy.

Randy

BTW, Natchez is showing some 77TMKs in stock.

 

[hereinaz]

A good bit of the conversation has focused on the 6 Creed. Just as the 6.5 Creed is a a few minor improvements on the 260 Remington, so too is the 6 Creed over the 243. The 6 Creed hasn't really taken off though. When the 6.5 Creed came out, mainstream manufacturers soon followed with a lot of traditional hunting rifle offerings. I just checked Sportsman's Warehouse website. They catalog 67 6 Creed offerings, 204 243 offerings and a staggering 603 6.5 Creed rifles. When you look at the 6 Creed Rifles, fully 3/4 of them are of a "tactical" appearance. Of those that aren't tactical looking, most are over $1500. Only two, a Ruger American and a Howa are in the $600 range. Compare that to the .243 and 6.5 Creed offerings, and you come to understand why the 6 Creed has languished somewhat.6

Truth there, but I differ in my belief of what will happen with the 6 creed and how to look at the 6 creed as a slice of the market.

Comparing the 260 Rem/6.5 creed isn't like the .243/6 creed. The 260 rem was released in 1997 and never grew out of its niche with SAAMI specs between the .243 (1955) and .308 (1952). . The .260 rem didn't really offer anything different except splitting the difference.

The 6.5 creed was different because it opened the long range market. When the 6.5 cm was released 10 years after the .260, Hornady standardized the first SAAMI spec cartridge that took advantage of the newer high BC bullets and modern case design with less taper and sharper shoulders.

Before that, it was wildcatters who were shooting cases like that with Ackley Improved cases and faster twist bullets for what high BC bullets were out there. And, the Hornady case is very similar to the 6XC case that Tubb had created and shown to win in competitions. It is arguable to say that the 6.5 creedmoor was influenced by the 6XC. There are many reasons why it had to be 6.5 caliber to really take off.

The .243 win was released decades before the .260 in 1955, and there were really no other 6 mm cartridges for it to compete with. Remington released the 6 rem about the same time, but they made a fatal flaw because they created the SAAMI specs with slower barrel twists and light 6 mm bullets to make the 6 rem more like a varmint cartridge. The .243 and .308 were newer cartridges designed to operate at higher pressure than similar existing cases like the .257 Roberts and 300 Savage, and take advantage of technological advances in powder and case design.

The .243 became popular as it did because it had a faster SAMMI twist so hunters could have one rifle to shoot heavier 100 grain bullets for deer and lighter 60 grain bullets for varmints. It became the choice if you wanted something less than a .308 with the "modern" designs, and the reduced recoil made it a rifle for kids and women. It is no surprise that there are hundreds of .243 rifles still available because it is like the .308 and 30-06, tradition and popularity is enough.

The 6.5 creedmoor also was the first in a fundamental change in cartridge design because of modern advancements, just like the .243 and .308 did in their time. And, proof look at the PRC and ARC cartridges by Hornady, and the less known like the 6.8 Western and new Weatherby offerings. They are gaining popularity over the venerable magnums of the day like 300 WM because they include the modern advancements of case design and high bc bullets.

With the 6.5 creed as the big brother, and the use of the 6 creed by the "tactical" crowd there will always be match ammo available for it from Hornady and others. Comparing the number of rifles available is a pretty good indicator of some things. I think that the availability of 6 creed ammo is a better indicator.

In ammo choices, Hornady, Nosler, Sierra, Barnes, Federal, Berger, and HSM all have more than one offering on Sportsman's website. None are in the cheap category of Winchester White Box or Hornady American Hunter, consistent with the fact that there are basically no budget rifles offered in 6 creedmoor as was pointed out.

I think as the cult of small caliber match bullets keeps growing (it isn't limited to .223 77 grain TMK), so will the 6 creed hunting rifles and ammo. 6 creed will be the logical choice for the crowd that just can't themselves going to .223 for any number of reasons.

The idea of using small caliber rifles with match bullets is growing here on Rokslide, and many more hunters are being convinced faster than the general public. It was already become a thing for years with the tactical/precision rifle shooters, and I'd bet that was some of the reason the epic .223 thread started. That thread then took it to the next level.

There is also the crossover of the .223 enthusiasts that want all the things of the .223 PLUS longer range effectiveness. The next logical step is the 6 creed for typical bolt guns (though the 22 ARC and 6 ARC will pick up some of the "I want something a little faster/bigger than a .223" crowd.)

All that to support my hypothesis that a shooter can feel safe finding ammo on the shelf for the 6 creed for hunting purposes.

 

[sierracharlie338]

I’m in the had a 243 before the cm came out club. That said, building the wife a 6cm and am curious to see some first hand experience with it.

 

[Wildhorse]

Got my first introduction to 243 when I purchased a 243 barrel for my LMT MRP 308 rifle back then they still made them loved it so much that when a savage model 12 LRP came up for an absolute steal I grabbed it as well that is one heck of a rifle I'm out west so I'm able to really reach out and I've absolutely loved it had a lot of friends who jumped on the 6.5 band wagon and after going out shooting were having a hard time justifying the 6.5 over the 243. It's a great round been around for forever works great for everything from coyote up to elk and is a wonderful rifle for the kids and wife to learn on as well. My wife wanted a 30-30 so I got her one she shot it starting out then shot the 243 the 30-30 sits in the closet.

 

[A-Brakke]

For those of you who hunt with a .243 or 6.5CM, why'd you go one way versus the other? I know both are capable and well up to the task. Still, I'm curious to hear what you went with and why. Any limitations or regrets?

Here are my parameters if it helps:
-Primary use is eastern whitetails in woodland and fields. So mostly I care about performance with bullet weights ~85 grains and higher.
-Flat-shooting relative to my 30 calibers.
-Both calibers have decent availability for factory ammo. And tons of options if I ever start hand loading again.
-Manageable recoil for when my son starts shooting.

Hey,

I chose the 6.5cm. Reasoning was Iv been shootin the same 300wm for years and at the same time my brother has been shooting a 6.5cm. Year after year we take elk side by side out to 300yds. Typically they both flop dead and upon evaluation of the entry exit they both enter and exit and you can’t tell a difference. After years of this Iv just decided it’s cheaper to shoot and more comfortable to shoot and picked one up. If it works on elk out to 400 just fine it will be great on deer out to 600.

 

[A-Brakke]

Hey,

I chose the 6.5cm. Reasoning was Iv been shootin the same 300wm for years and at the same time my brother has been shooting a 6.5cm. Year after year we take elk side by side out to 300yds. Typically they both flop dead and upon evaluation of the entry exit they both enter and exit and you can’t tell a difference. After years of this Iv just decided it’s cheaper to shoot and more comfortable to shoot and picked one up. If it works on elk out to 400 just fine it will be great on deer out to 600.

Always the 143g ELDX

 

[6mm Remington]

6mm Remington if you reload. Harder to find factory ammo but this is a great cartridge. I started hunting with the 6mm Remington in 1972. Pictured below is my son using the same rifle on his first big-game hunt. Remington Model 600 Centennial in 6mm Remington. Only 1020 made of the centennial model. Nosler 100 gr. Partitions are the only bullets ever shot out of this rifle!

Here's my son Jeff with his first elk. A nice big cow taken with his Ruger MKII in 6mm Remington shooting Nolser 90gr. E-Tips. One shot at 350 yards and she staggered about 20 yards and went down.

I really like the 6mm Remington and shoot a lot of game with it today. My rifle I use in 6mm Remington is a Ruger 1B single-shot. Love that rifle too. It shoots very accurately!

 

[LeftyWilbury]

i'm going to buy a .243 for hunting because it's faster than the 6.5CM and there's a left handed tikka on our shelves with a 1:8 twist. and it's been at least two months since i bought my last tikka.

plenty of factory ammo for both 243 and 6.5. both kill animals. couldn't go wrong with either. i plan on chopping the 243 down to run a suppressor, so the extra velocity will be useful. and i'm too lazy to care about 6 CM being even cooler.