your 6.5 CM/elk experience

[IDVortex]

This super scientific graph explains it pretty well!View attachment 678986

Just glad you don't have a picture of me in the shower

 

[Hnthrdr]

I just wanted someone to roll in and tell me how a 6.5cm doesn’t have the beans to kill elk… but that 6.5prc… now that can really kill them public land testosterone riddled bulls! The whole 200 fps with the same projectiles…

 

[Ryan Avery]

I just wanted someone to roll in and tell me how a 6.5cm doesn’t have the beans to kill elk… but that 6.5prc… now that can really kill them public land testosterone riddled bulls! The whole 200 fps with the same projectiles…

6.5CM are gay.. 6CM is where it's at...

 

[IDVortex]

6.5CM are gay.. 6CM is where it's at...

6arc is where it's at. It's not a creedmoor so instantly more reliable

 

[Ryan Avery]

6arc is where it's at. It's not a creedmoor so instantly more reliable

6ARC would bounce off a public land squirrel.

 

[Hnthrdr]

6ARC would bounce off a public land squirrel.

Only because they are pressured and full of adrenaline, now a private land squirrel… you are probably okay, maybe a little under gunned…

 

[ManBun]

Sure did leave an open avenue on the private/public land comment, deserve the hits on that one!

Well gents, lock the thread. In the meantime, I’m gonna go buy a 300 win mag and put another round through the big 6 point I’ve got shoulder mounted in my front room that I killed with a 6.5 creed. He was a “pressured, public land” full rut bull that was full of adrenaline, so I’m pretty sure he’s probably not quite dead even though he’s been hanging up since 2020.

All joking aside, how many animals have you killed/seen killed with the 6.5 creedmoor and all its adjacent brothers/predecessors (6creed, 243, 25-06, 257 Robert’s, 260 Remington, 270 Winchester, etc.)? Animals die ONLY through 1 of 2 ways: oxygen deprivation, or central nervous system interruption. And if a guy can put a properly constructed KILLING bullet through either the heart, lungs, or the central nervous system (high shoulder/spine/head/neck) through his 6.5 creedmoor, the animal won’t know the difference. Foot pounds of energy don’t matter if you “dump all the energy” into the grass bag or into the spinous process, there’s no “margin of error” that will make up for poor shot placement. There’s not a person on this planet, again contrary to popular belief, who shoots a 300 RUM or Win or 7 rem mag or [insert magnum cartridge here] as well as they’ll shoot a lower recoiling round. A guy may shoot them well, but they’ll ALWAYS shoot less recoil better. On top of that, the vast majority of hunters don’t shoot enough to be anywhere near as proficient as they think they are every year, which further exacerbates the issue.

I don't know, roughly 10-15 between myself and friends through the years sprinkled between .243win, 25-06 and a 270. Been hunting since late 80's and most were shot with those calibers when I was younger. Can't remember exactly how many with each caliber, but I do remember that most of them were boiler room shoots that took out the lungs. A couple were shot high shoulder/spine and were done right there. A couple were bad shots that we probably shouldn't have shot. Some we probably took shots to far back then as we didn't have range finders. We did a lot of cow hunting then, and we chased most of them for a while as they would get back into the herd and run. Problem was those bullets didn't go all the way through and we would lose the blood trail. Never lost any, but without some long nights and sometimes miles of tracking, and some luck we would never of found a few of them. A few took second shots to finish them off after we caught them. In the early 90's after high school, shot some elk with 7mm mag shooting 175 partitions in a Ruger mk 77. Shot 4-5 with that gun, with again most boiler room double lung and I would get a mix bag of some taking off and then some dropping in their tracks. In 2003 was when I got my 338 RUM in a Remington LSS, shooting 210 grain barnes triple shocks going 3150 fps. I probably averaged 1 elk killed per year with that rifle. Never had one go any further than 10 yards, and couple of them shot at the limit of that bullet at 600 yards. There was a couple bad shots in there where I hit lower liver and those bulls still dropped in their tracks. Now I mainly use a custom 300prc with 215 Bergers (smaller caliber for less recoil. Killed couple bulls with it, and will say that 338 just seems to hit them harder on average!
Last couple years a couple cow elk with a 6.5 creed moor that family friends got shot. Both were shot with 143 eld-x. One I believe was around 200 yards. It was a high shoulder shot and dropped right there. The cow last year with the 6.5 creed moor was double lunged behind the front shoulder, roughly 325 yards. The bullet didn't go all the way through and the elk got in with the herd after the shot and started running. Was getting flash backs to the early years. Elk ran 1/2 mile and over the side into a deep and steep timbered canyon. It wasn't a perfect high shoulder shot but this was a good boiler room double lung hit with all the bullets energy dumped in her with the bullet on the off side of the hide. Went down after her and she was still standing, so my friend put another in the head neck juncture to finish her off. Lungs were jelly coming out and was amazed by how that cow ran that far!
I agree with your statement above to a point! A smaller caliber will increase your odds of an accurate placement. You're not going to shoot a perfect shot every time, even with a smaller caliber. Good shooters miss every now and then, and think how often it happens more with the general hunter as you stated. Animals are tough and they want to live also, and sometimes they will just take lead like a stud, as your example below. If you can shoot a larger caliber just as good ( and I agree most can't, but some can) and you can practice to be close to as good as with a smaller caliber you should use the larger caliber. Use the better tool for the job. I do believe in a bigger hole with more weight is better than a smaller hole with less weight for those times that you are going to be off. There's no replacement for displacement!

So, no, more gun isn’t more better. It doesn’t kill them better, it doesn’t give you “the ability to punch through the dreaded elk shoulder” any better, and it doesn’t allow you better “margin of error” for bad shots. In fact, the single worst kill I’ve ever witnessed was my dad’s moose in 2003, which soaked up 9 rounds of 165 grain partitions from his 7 mag at 250 yards. Dad was digging through his backpack looking for any more ammo after round 9 because the bull just wouldn’t drop, and about a minute after the last shot (and about 5 after the shooting commenced), the bull finally tipped over. It’s only an example of 1, but to me it shows that magnums are not the “end-all be-all” that Elmer Keith wanted everyone to believe. They’ll kill for sure, but they kill stuff the same way that any other cartridge does: by putting holes in the front half of animals.

To the OP, I’ve seen multiple elk and mule deer killed in 2 different states over several years from 25 to 500-ish yards with a 6.5 creedmoor and its adjacent brother, the 270 Winchester, all with 140-143 grain projectiles from both Hornady and Berger. Only 1 required a follow up shot, none of them traveled further than 25 yards or so, and one of the mule deer (shot at 225 yards with a 143 grain ELDX) exhibited the single most impressive exit wound I’ve every seen, a 5 inch diameter hole with daylight visible all the way through as he ran 25 yards from left to right in the snow on Colorado 3rd season in 2022 before dying. Left a blood trail so impressive that Ray Charles could’ve followed it. I would happily carry a 6.5 creedmoor for everything until the day I die, and don’t regret dumping my own 7 mag to do so.

 

[Jason Snyder]

If an elk runs 1/2 mile after getting shot, the shooter did a terrible job of putting the bullet where it needs to go. End of story.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[t_carlson]

Three in the past year. None went more than 30 yards from initial impact.

571 yards, 130g Sierra TMK.
452 yards, 135g DRT terminal shock.
275 yards, 140g Hornady ELD-M.

How did the TMK compare to the ELD-M?

143 eldx, cow elk @ 450 yards. First shot boiler room hunched her up. Took off with the herd caught up to her about 300 yards later and one more shot put her down. Both shots would have been in the 10 ring. Killed 3 bucks and a bear with the same bullet. All of them required follow up shots. Never had a critter DRT with the 6.5cm

300 yard run with a "boiler room" shot does not inspire confidence. I'll be Creedmooring this fall and was planning to use ELD's of some flavor.

Weird to see so many guys SWEARING by the same cartridge/bullet combo while another group reports bad to mixed results. I don't know what to make of this.

The match bullet phenomena has been an interesting argument ever since Bergers became popular. Field reports are often 180 degrees from one another. One thing is for sure, you didn't really hear such polarity when discussing, say a .30-06 and Nosler Partitions.

Again, I'm not sure what to make of it. I guess I'll find out for myself come October.

 

[t_carlson]

6.5CM are gay.. 6CM is where it's at...

If 6.5's are gay, then 6's are trans.

You heard it here first.

 

[Matt5266]

If 6.5's are gay, then 6's are trans.

You heard it here first.

Thanks, I just spit coffee all over the inside of the work car haha

 

[Ryan Avery]

If 6.5's are gay, then 6's are trans.

You heard it here first.

Indeed!

The real tranny is the 6UM. It's got extra testosterone in its veins...

 

[Hnthrdr]

How did the TMK compare to the ELD-M?



300 yard run with a "boiler room" shot does not inspire confidence. I'll be Creedmooring this fall and was planning to use ELD's of some flavor.

Weird to see so many guys SWEARING by the same cartridge/bullet combo while another group reports bad to mixed results. I don't know what to make of this.

The match bullet phenomena has been an interesting argument ever since Bergers became popular. Field reports are often 180 degrees from one another. One thing is for sure, you didn't really hear such polarity when discussing, say a .30-06 and Nosler Partitions.

Again, I'm not sure what to make of it. I guess I'll find out for myself come October.

Gotta find out for yourself… sometimes I think we as shooters remember things a little differently unless we do autopsies to confirm. I will say on several animals I have experienced or seen death runs. Double lunged a tanker of a bull (archery) who went 200 ish yard and died mid sprint, friend shot several doe antelope with a 7mm rem mag and 2 of the 5 that season took off on death runs 2-300 yards but then tipped , also the p-horn buck he shot he missed low and broke the front leg, that thing went .75 of a mile before he caught up to and killed it, it was hurt bad but figured out how to move on 3 legs real damn quick, so yeah the mighty 7 rem mag doesn’t guarantee squat with a marginal hit, just like most cartridges don’t. I used a 6.5 and .243 on my antelope that year and both were drt… ( not bragging, my doe I used the .243 on I hit a little far back in the liver but dropped her like a sack, she required another shot)

 

[LongWayAround]

"Hunched up" doesn't make me think "boiler room."

 

[Jason Snyder]

Boiler room…

 

[HingleMcCringleberry]

An extremely common trait with "bullet failures" or "cartridge shortcomings" is an un-recovered animal...

 

[IDbrushswimmer]

I don’t know, it was pretty cool actually getting to spot my impacts this year using a 6.5. Sure gonna miss getting my shoulder beat to hell by light magnums, or trading that for getting punched in the face by muzzle blast from a brake.

 

[Sako300]

I’ve witnessed a few bull elk shot in the lungs with 7 rem mags and 300 win mags where it was even hard to spot the hit on the elk thru the boiler with a Swaro spotter at 4-500 yards in broken terrain. The bulls didn’t even flinch with the shot and stood there.
Spotting impacts on hide is way different than on steel! Especially if the elk just stand there taking multiple hits with no reaction.

 

[Wrongside]

Not looking for opinions, just the facts:
IF you have killed elk what where your results with this cartridge?
Helpful would be:
range
bullet

1. small late season bull
300 meters
147ELD (1)

2. Nov 4x5 bull
470 meters
147ELD (1)

3. big late season cow
591 meters
147ELD (2, but shouldn’t have bothered with the second)

Kilt a bull moose and a bunch of other stuff with the 6.5s and it works just fine. Used the 30-06 a bunch before the 6.5, and can’t tell the difference in terminal performance.

 

[ColoradoCarp]

Interesting read. I shoot a 7mm Rem and previous a 30-06,....been considering going smaller to drop some rifle weight. Buddy of mine shot a cow moose with 6.5cm at 200, quick kill. Shot placement king as always. But appreciate hearing these real world examples.