Yet Another Magnum vs. Small Bore Cartridge Conundrum

[Nick4050]

I know that this topic has been beaten to death many times over, but there's one side of the "magnum vs. .223/6mm" conversation that I haven't seen discussed much.

To start, I'm a magnum cartridge shooter (primarily 300 win and 7 Rem mag with monolithics) that has fallen into the smaller is better rabbit hole on this forum. While I would consider myself very proficient with my current setups and probably shoot more magnum rounds every year than most, I absolutely see and agree with the appeal of making a substantial step down in cartridge size for hunting. I've all but committed to building a new Tikka in one of the smaller wonder cartridges, except for one thought that's stuck in my head.

I live in Alaska, and 99% of my hunting is for moose, black bear, and caribou. While I agree that a .243" bullet would be more than adequate for taking controlled shots on all of these, my hesitation lies in the fact that where we hunt, there is always a significant chance of running into a pissed off and/or wounded moose or brown bear. If such situation arises I would really appreciate the ability to break/punch through skeletal parts and find vitals, regardless of shot angle. I feel like the majority of those on the "smaller is better" side of these discussions are primarily hunting in the lower 48 or areas with low chance of such encounters.

My question is, if you were in my position and needed to account for the possibility of using your rifle to quickly stop an adrenaline filled moose or bear. would you still be confident in bringing a 6mm rifle along on all of your hunts? I don't ask this to be argumentative, I would really love to try out a rifle setup that is cheaper and inherently easier to shoot. I just can't wrap my head around being comfortable in the field without that extra "horsepower" in my back pocket for when things get western.

 

[jmyers]

No go big not worth taking a chance. I don’t agree at at all with all this small cartridge nonsense. 6mms are great for what they were designed for

 

[One300wsm]

I have both and when it’s big I always find myself grabbing the magnum. The 300 WM just hammers plan and simple. With that said I’ve carried smaller calibers in grizzly territory without hesitation sheep and goat hunting.

 

[Sadie]

But you will miss the adrenaline rush of hunting brown bears in a willow thicket if you don't use a 223.

 

[Blake C]

Hell no. What's your life worth. I love my 6.5prc. But when I'm in alaska its an easy choice to take my 300 win mag

 

[jaw944]

Although there is some real merit to the small bore "wonder cartridges" debate, I myself will always reach for the magnum or larger bore cartridge when im headed off into the woods or mountains and theres the possibility of large and or aggressive game. Id pick the 308 over the 243/6mm or my 300prc over any smaller bore cartridges or even something like 6.5prc. To me diameter, energy, weight, inertia is king in those situations. To me Its like the 9mm vs 10mm debate, for a bear defense side arm, will the right load and shot placement in a 9mm put down a bear...probably, however a 10mm will absolutely do it and punch a bigger hole with more energy and break through bone etc. I tend to err on the side of id rather overkill than just enough to get the job done.

 

[wesfromky]

Worth a listen/watch.

 

[Speaks]

If you are using the same style of bullet in the 300 that you would use in the 6mm then sure it will do crazy damage. If you are using a real tough bullet to avoid catastrophic meat loss on game out of the 300 it might not have so much advantage on the bear.

That said I shoot my 300 pretty well, even though I rarely shoot it. If you are not trying to solve a problem and it makes you uncomfortable then dont.

Personally a 6.5 cm throwing 153 peak+ tmks over 2800 fps might make a pretty compelling bear stopper compared to a 300wm throwing monos...... Not speaking from experience on that though.

 

[Forkasauras]

If you don't think a 6mm rifle will stop a brown bear, take a 9mm hand gun like everybody else. Or even a 10mm or 45 acp, those are even bigger!!!!

 

[KHntr]

I just can't wrap my head around being comfortable in the field without that extra "horsepower" in my back pocket for when things get western.

This is the part that is giving you problems.

For context, I live in NE BC. My when I’m mowing my lawn, I’m in grizzly country. Grizzlies have pried open the door to my tack shed to lick up spilled grain. I have bumped grizzlies at last light walking back to my house after an evening of chasing bulls. There is currently a breeding pair hanging out on the walking trails by the college, IN town.
They are simply a fact of life living where I do, 45 minutes out of town.

Every season for the last 7 or 8 years I have bumped grizzlies while calling elk that were actively hunting the cow calls. We’ve bumped grizzlies running in to gut piles after we’ve had moose and elk loaded up and are on the way out.

Some people are comfortable in bear country with whatever they have in their hands, and some people will never be comfortable no matter what they are carrying.
I’ve had a ridiculous amount of bear exposure as a forester over the last few decades and my personal bear tolerance is pretty high.

If you have doubts about the effectiveness of what you are carrying, then you will be nervous.
Carry what lets you feel the most comfortable, but pay attention to what you are seeing when you start killing stuff with a smaller cartridge. Wound channel. Time to get on target. How quickly you can get on target for the subsequent rounds.

I am much more comfortable in the thought of having the best chance I can get with having one round land on target with the bullet that makes a maximum amount of damage over a rifle that makes a loud noise and stuffs a controlled expansion round into the dirt behind something thats big and angry.

I am ALWAYS going to choose the bullet that sets off a quarter stick of dynamite under the hide over the one that looks like you ran a stick of rebar through it when it comes to taking the fight out of an animal. But that is just me, and that is what makes me feel comfortable.

 

[B_Reynolds_AK]

Some people are comfortable in bear country with whatever they have in their hands, and some people will never be comfortable no matter what they are carrying.

This is 100 percent true.

@Nick4050 Re read what KHntr wrote several times.
Guys that are so adamant about the ineffectiveness of a 6 or 6.5mm cartridge are stating this
from a place of either fear or ignorance.

 

[B_Reynolds_AK]

To me diameter, energy, weight, inertia is king in those situations. To me Its like the 9mm vs 10mm debate, for a bear defense side arm, will the right load and shot placement in a 9mm put down a bear...probably, however a 10mm will absolutely do it and punch a bigger hole with more energy and break through bone etc.

This is just nonsensical gibberish.

 

[SloppyJ]

You lost me at magnum with monolithic bullet.

If you're not going to be comfortable, which it sounds like you're not, then why bother? There's an argument to made about quicker followup shots and more accurate shot placement in general but it's not going to matter to you. If you don't think a 6mm bullet can take down a bear (spoiler: it can), then it's not worth the effort to try to convince yourself.

You need some first hand experience with one on large game, with the right bullet selection, to get your confidence up. That's where I would start. If that means you carry a glock 20 and a backup 44mag, so be it. You owe it to yourself to try a smaller caliber on an animal to look at the damage. I bet you'd be surprised at the wound channel. I'm not talking about stuffing a LRX or TTSX in a 6 creed either, to be clear. That is the way forward if you really want to try it.

 

[Forkasauras]

This is just nonsensical gibberish.

But it is bigger!!!! It must kill better, have a wider margin of error, penetrate deeper, have moar energy!!!!! Physics!!!!!