Wyoming Mule Deer, what the answer?

[manitou1]

1) Quit livestock grazing of prime habitat
2) Establish mountain mahogany and bitterbush planting programs
3) Supplemental feeding in harsh winters
4) Highway wildlife friendly crossings
5) Quit Over-selling Tags!

 

[Burt_Niel]

1) Quit livestock grazing of prime habitat
2) Establish mountain mahogany and bitterbush planting programs
3) Supplemental feeding in harsh winters
4) Highway wildlife friendly crossings
5) Quit Over-selling Tags!

Coming from completely left field here (Northern BC), I recently skipped over a podcast from Vortex about sage and bitterbrush planting to help Mule deer populations... Now just learning that so many areas in the west are struggling with their Mulie pops I'll have to have a listen to it.

Sent from my Pixel 7 Pro using Tapatalk

 

[blastro87]

Hunting bucks has almost no negative effect on the population. Wyoming's declining mule deer population is a habitat, disease, weather, and predator issue... in that order.

The biggest impact the average hunter can have is supporting foundations that work on habitat. The second would be to predator hunt.

^^^ This...is the proper and accurate answer for every game species in North America.

 

[Rich M]

Habitat helps the critterz. Better habitat = more critterz.

 

[Jimss]

I would agree with a couple posts above. Healthy habitat = healthier critters = more critters = more tags.

I've hunted the past couple years in the North-Central part of Wyoming. There is miles upon miles of dense cheatgrass from Cheyenne north to Gillette. Poor browse is definitely impacting deer in that country. Where we've controlled cheatgrass on our winter range here in Colorado I'm having a tough time telling fawns and yearly does apart. Both the fawns and does are that healthy!

 

[Balderdash]

Problem is likely multifaceted. Certainly seems like more and more hunters on any open ground. More and more ranches are busted up and new houses being built. Effective killing range is going up as years go on. Predators becoming more and more numerous. It all adds up.

However, I do think that it's mostly habitat. I helped my brother with a CO Moose tag about 15 years ago. The area we hunted was severely affected by beatle kill. Entire hillsides of standing dead spruce. But, there were MD all over the place. Locals told us they'd never seen so many. About 5 years later we hadn't drawn any tags and we noticed that there were left over ML deer tags available for that same unit. We went and had some luck, but the hillsides were now covered in small spruces and there were significantly less deer. Small example for a big, complex issue.

 

[Blackcats06]

4x4 minimum restriction

There is a lot of research out there that shows that point restrictions do not help population levels.

 

[manitou1]

There is a lot of research out there that shows that point restrictions do not help population levels.

They do help avg buck size. I have seen it in two states.

 

[S.Clancy]

They do help avg buck size. I have seen it in two states.

I think there is only 1 study out of dozens that shows that. Short term (like 2-4 years) it helps buck size, but long term it creates a genetic bottleneck where the only bucks getting through to breed are those that have 2 and 3 pt genetics (say, for a 4 pt min restriction). It essentially gets rid of the deer with "good" to "excellent" antler genetics before they can pass those traits on via breeding.

 

[Blackcats06]

They do help avg buck size. I have seen it in two states.

You need to look at the research more. Initially it does help but after several years it starts to change the size

 

[WCB]

I hav spent the vast majority of my life in North Western Wyoming. And have harvested a a deer in that corner of the state 11 years in a row, all mature bucks, not monsters. I am fortunate enough to have access to a lease with several thousand acres of river bottom and agricultural land. 5 years ago you would see 200-400 deer any given night mostly mule deer some whitetail. this year after 6-7 days of hunting, out of a 10 day season is saw a total of 30 mule deer total and proudly 40-50 whitetail, with 2 mule deer bucks maybe 2-3 years old. they say that diseases are to blame and I'm sure they play a role, but on top of that ever walk in hunt area or sliver of public ground that has a chance of holding deer has 2-3 trucks parked on it. We are killing to many deer! compiled on this when hunters get frustrated they shoot does and small bucks which only makes the situation worst. I would give up my opportunity to buy a tag and hunt over the counter every year if it meant Wyoming G&F actually started managing our deer population by setting quotas opposed to blaming blue tongue and CWD whilst throwing their hands in the air. The deer population our part of the state is in free fall and I'm not sure the game department is competent enough to turn it around.

I get some of what you are saying and in your area I can't speak to, but I just was elk hunting in the North East corner of WY this Sept. (actually calling for my dad). We have deer hunted the N.F. there a bunch and have two rancher friends in the area my family has known for over 50 years. In the N.F. hunting we would see 40+ deer a day per person (6 or 7 of us) hunting different areas. Drive on our friends ranch and you literally would see hundreds.

We were out there for a week and 3 days in N.F. we saw a total of MAYBE 15 deer. You can not shoot does on public in that area so hunting is not to blame. Also, we hunted 3 days on private where again you see hundreds of deer a day (8500 acres approx) If we saw 50 deer I would be surprised. Maybe a dozen on a 100 acre alfalfa field at night.

As far as Mule Deer in general....I have said it many times on here and other places. There are virtually ZERO reasons to shoot Mule Deer does.

 

[MallardSX2]

Shut doe hunting down completely. Statewide. Once the population objective is back to where they want it open the does season back up every other year to maintain the population.

 

[Buglebrush]

I think there is only 1 study out of dozens that shows that. Short term (like 2-4 years) it helps buck size, but long term it creates a genetic bottleneck where the only bucks getting through to breed are those that have 2 and 3 pt genetics (say, for a 4 pt min restriction). It essentially gets rid of the deer with "good" to "excellent" antler genetics before they can pass those traits on via breeding.

My suggestion was a short term suggestion to go to 4 pt. Restriction for a few years to help the herd rebound. Seems perfect to me.

 

[S.Clancy]

My suggestion was a short term suggestion to go to 4 pt. Restriction for a few years to help the herd rebound. Seems perfect to me.

4pt restriction doesn't do shit for "the herd". It may have a temporary effect on age class, may. I'm incredulous that it would even do that in a region where habitat is so good that you can get 180"+ 3.5 yr old bucks, you'd still be shooting young deer. What you need is good weather, plain and simple. Without it, it won't get better as fast.

 

[wapitibob]

Bucks don't have fawns, you stop shooting Does to increase herd size. On the flip side, game managers like to shoot the crap out of the doe population to show their customers a more favorable buck/doe ratio.

 

[Buglebrush]

4pt restriction doesn't do shit for "the herd". It may have a temporary effect on age class, may. I'm incredulous that it would even do that in a region where habitat is so good that you can get 180"+ 3.5 yr old bucks, you'd still be shooting young deer. What you need is good weather, plain and simple. Without it, it won't get better as fast.

I disagree. Way too many hunters out there with the "Brown it's down" mentality. Also, a fork horn is way more stupid and likely to get shot than a 4x4. I still say that a few years of 4 pt. minimum would be a great way to go. No does. No stupid baby bucks. Let the pop rebound while still giving people the chance to chase a giant.

 

[S.Clancy]

I disagree. Way too many hunters out there with the "Brown it's down" mentality. Also, a fork horn is way more stupid and likely to get shot than a 4x4. I still say that a few years of 4 pt. minimum would be a great way to go. No does. No stupid baby bucks. Let the pop rebound while still giving people the chance to chase a giant.

We can agree to disagree then

 

[Wyo_hntr]

All the data I have observed from multiple studies show antler restrictions do not increase mature buck numbers. In fact it does the opposite long term, it focuses all the hunting pressure on the very type of deer people want more of.

It's an incredibly backward way of thinking and management.

I'd suggest listening to the rokcast podcast episode "Big picture research for mule deer" from August of this year. It covers antler restrictions.

EDIT:7/31/23 episode: Antler Point Restrictions with Wyo Bio Jeff Short is the actual podcast I meant, the Legend set the record straight.

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

I saw over 200 whitetail bucks and over 100 mule deer bucks in just 3 mornings/evenings of watching deer in Wyoming this September. In a year where they said that it was a “down year” for the deer populations in that area.

 

[go_deep]

I hunted region F back in the early 2000's the season after the point restrictions were lifted. There were dumb 3 and 4 points everywhere.