Wyoming long range hunting debate

[fatlander]

Managing game based off emotions and feels is even more worthless.

I agree. Emotion and feelings have to be what’s driving the train for management when data is incomplete, at best.


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[Jordan Smith]

In western WY country, long range has completely changed how big deer use to be able and survive, along with the bigger bulls in the remote open high country. With people lobbing shots over 1k yards, no deer is safe. I know of some so called "hunters" who just sit on a high point, shoot into trees, jump bucks out, then proceed to take long range shots. I know of some specific Utards, that along with those tactics, go sit on high points in the dark with high dollar thermal binos to find every buck in a drainage. The obsession with "likes" and notoriety from social media in the hunting industry, has created a breed of hunters who could care less about the ethical decision, and will take shots at game nobody ever would consider before. But never will you hear the stories of wounded animals, missed shots, or shooting over other hunters heads.

Last year while elk hunting, I witnessed a group of guys, shooting at well over 900 yards at some bulls way above them. 2 days in a row, 1st day they wounded 1, next day we were so pissed at what we witnessed, we started screaming every name in the book at them in the canyon below. After they hit the bull the day before, they never hiked up to even go look for him. Over the 2 days, they shot well over 20 rounds. Long range hunting, is for lazy asses who cant put themselves into a better position, and are obsessed with getting that "trophy" photo to post, and will take shots they shouldnt. I will never have respect for a hunter who tells me they shoot an animal at those distances, no matter how much they practice and shoot.

No matter what happens, no law or authority will ever be able to change the obsession people now have with being social media famous in the hunting industry. And ethics will take a backseat when they see a huge animal at a distance far beyond what they "should" be shooting at.

That's not a distance issue, it's a responsibility and ethics issue. Give those same guys an iron-sighted .30-30, and they'll still be lobbing shots at 300+ yards and shooting at deer on a flat-out run that they lack the skills to reliably kill. Or give them a bow, and they'll be shooting at deer at over 100 yards, at poor shot angles, etc.

 

[wind gypsy]

That's not a distance issue, it's a responsibility and ethics issue. Give those same guys an iron-sighted .30-30, and they'll still be lobbing shots at 300+ yards and shooting at deer on a flat-out run that they lack the skills to reliably kill. Or give them a bow, and they'll be shooting at deer at over 100 yards, at poor shot angles, etc.

Sure but they can get to within a 1000 yards of a lot more animals than they can 100 or 300.

1000 yard radius = 649 acres
300 yard radius = 58 acres
100 yard radius = 6.5 acres

 

[Jordan Smith]

That might matter for all six of the people here who care about deep woods, Whitetail hunting.

Nah. I would bet that it matters for most of the guys here, if they're honest. Most game is found where the shot opportunity is less than 400 m. Regardless of what a hunter cares about, you've got to go find the animals where they are, unless you can magically will them to appear where you'd like to shoot them. WT, elk, moose, bears, etc., like to be in mixed terrain.

Ultimately, a guy has to intentionally try to find and wait for shots at 500+ yards for all the LR shooting tech to really make a big difference in his hunting success. For the all-around hunter with a LR-capable rifle, the gear helps on occasion, but most shots are at less than 500.

 

[SDHNTR]

Nah. I would bet that it matters for most of the guys here, if they're honest. Most game is found where the shot opportunity is less than 400 m. Regardless of what a hunter cares about, you've got to go find the animals where they are, unless you can magically will them to appear where you'd like to shoot them. WT, elk, moose, bears, etc., like to be in mixed terrain.

Ultimately, a guy has to intentionally try to find and wait for shots at 500+ yards for all the LR shooting tech to really make a big difference in his hunting success. For the all-around hunter with a LR-capable rifle, the gear helps on occasion, but most shots are at less than 500.

Your last paragraph I certainly agree with.

 

[BrownTroutGuy]

It’s an issue in general with hunting. Haven’t read the entire thread, but just wanted to state an extremely high percentage of shots result in a wounded animal. Archery is no different.

To throw out a broad statement with no proof to back it up, I think far more animals get shot at than harvested in the West. A lot of the time guys have no idea if they wounded it or not, so whatever data there is on wounded animals is probably way too low of a %.

 

[Jordan Smith]

Sure but they can get to within a 1000 yards of a lot more animals than they can 100 or 300.

1000 yard radius = 649 acres
300 yard radius = 58 acres
100 yard radius = 6.5 acres

True, but if we go back to a scoped bolt-action rifle without electronics, we're still talking about 400-yard capability, easy. And I would suggest that the distance where it seems to get much more difficult to get closer to an animal seems to be about 300-400 yards. With few exceptions, getting to within 300-400 is usually fairly easy.

Other than the wide open prairie or the high mountains, the total acreage is not all that relevant when most of the time the ability to gain a 1000-yard LOS is pretty limited.

But I get your point.

 

[SDHNTR]

So I’m sure you voluntarily hunt with restricted weapons correct?

Your common sense tells you to be at the tip of the spear and lead by example?

I do. Regularly. I spent all winter and Spring hunting with a Lyman Great Plains rifle loaded with a round ball. And if it weren’t for a bum shoulder, one of my Stalker recurves would be getting the action. And I just loaded up some rounds for my Savage 99 to take on a cow elk hunt this fall. I enjoy all kinds of hunting.

 

[SDHNTR]

Data in many western states isn’t worth the paper it’s printed on. I’ve been a part of many hunts across the west that the state administering the tags had zero idea of the outcome or effort. Until states implement mandatory harvest reporting, their data is useless.


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This is soooooo true. The “data” that is available now is worthless.

 

[wind gypsy]

True, but if we go back to a scoped bolt-action rifle without electronics, we're still talking about 400-yard capability, easy. And I would suggest that the distance where it seems to get much more difficult to get closer to an animal seems to be about 300-400 yards. With few exceptions, getting to within 300-400 is usually fairly easy.

Other than the wide open prairie or the high mountains, the total acreage is not all that relevant when most of the time the ability to gain a 1000-yard LOS is pretty limited.

But I get your point.

Related to a point you've made numerous times - certain locations and species are obviously much more impacted and others not at all. Which is why a one size fits all if additional restrictions are placed wouldn't make sense to me.

 

[Flyjunky]

Freaking Data. Give me a break. “Data” has become an overused and annoying Rokslike buzzword. No one needs freaking data and a study to prove that a turret, an advanced scope, precision rifles, and a ballistic calculator make it easier to kill animals, one just needs common sense.

So where were these turrets, advanced scopes, precision rifles in the 80’s when the mule deer population really started declining?

Common sense would say the animals are facing a much bigger problem/s than fancy guns. But like you said, common sense is in short supply so let’s just keep adding stupid restrictions that, in the end, will result in no measurable gain.

 

[wind gypsy]

So where were these turrets, advanced scopes, precision rifles in the 80’s when the mule deer population really started declining?

Common sense would say the animals are facing a much bigger problem/s than fancy guns. But like you said, common sense is in short supply so let’s just keep adding stupid restrictions that, in the end, will result in no measurable gain.

Common sense says fixing habitat degradation and fragmentation, invasive encroachment, competition for resources with elk and livestock, and drought/severe winter is a bit more challenging than a hunting reg tweak.

 

[BRTreedogs]

What are ya gonna do when banning shooting over 75 yards doesn’t work?

Ban hunting?

 

[Hnthrdr]

The root issue of that is hunters killing younger animals before they reach maturity, which is better solved with the existing tool of antler point restrictions rather than technology restrictions.

I’ll disagree with the point restrictions I think if all hunts were done with iron sights and straight wall cartridges post October there would be a lot of bigger bucks on the land scape (where genetics & feed allow) in 2-3 years

 

[wyosam]

So, on a site that talks about precise zeroing, minute differences in optics, cutting ounces from pack weight, shifting reticles, etc….the science and measurements, promoting a change to the way we hunt, which will most likely never be reversed if/when found to have no measurable effect, we are going to base it on feels? Yet, aren’t we the same group that condemns ballot box biology because it isn’t based on science/facts?

In that case, I feel spotting scopes, stabilized binos, mapping software, compound bows, trail cams, etc are also contributing factors and should be eliminated.

Spears or no hunting at all, for the long term health of our animals.

About these spears… are full customs allowed or factory only? Is unknown working on the Rokspear? Do the Scandinavians by chance make an ugly but very functional spear for a reasonable price?


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[Hnthrdr]

Common sense says fixing habitat degradation and fragmentation, invasive encroachment, competition for resources with elk and livestock, and drought/severe winter is a bit more challenging than a hunting reg tweak.

This is all hard truth that need to be dealt with, but the elk over MD practice is tough for most hunters or game agencies to swallow… elk are the big western state draw I would imagine more so than MD

 

[Lawnboi]

What are ya gonna do when banning shooting over 75 yards doesn’t work?

Ban hunting?

Easy supply and demand. Auction them tags off!

 

[BRTreedogs]

I’ll disagree with the point restrictions I think if all hunts were done with iron sights and straight wall cartridges post October there would be a lot of bigger bucks on the land scape (where genetics & feed allow) in 2-3 years

Besides very limited tag availability already high preference point units what Nov hunts does Wy offer for deer?

You saying straight wall cartridge is gonna turn a 20 tag unit into a what 25 tag unit?

Not like tag numbers would increase much.

 

[Hnthrdr]

Nah. I would bet that it matters for most of the guys here, if they're honest. Most game is found where the shot opportunity is less than 400 m. Regardless of what a hunter cares about, you've got to go find the animals where they are, unless you can magically will them to appear where you'd like to shoot them. WT, elk, moose, bears, etc., like to be in mixed terrain.

Ultimately, a guy has to intentionally try to find and wait for shots at 500+ yards for all the LR shooting tech to really make a big difference in his hunting success. For the all-around hunter with a LR-capable rifle, the gear helps on occasion, but most shots are at less than 500.

Yes and no… I can’t tell you how many times I’ve been 1000 to 600 with shooter elk and deer that I’ve never had a crack at because I refuse to shoot that far Unintentionally as well. Most of my kills with a rifle have been been sub 300 yards but it’s because I generally stalk in, not because I don’t glass the game at 600-1800 yards

 

[Hnthrdr]

Besides very limited tag availability already high preference point units what Nov hunts does Wy offer for deer?

You saying straight wall cartridge is gonna turn a 20 tag unit into a what 25 tag unit?

Not like tag numbers would increase much.

Not over night, and sorry I’m a greenie from Co so painting with some broad strokes (western hunting vs. strictly wyo) I think after a few years it could take a 20 tag unit to a 30-35 tag unit. I know if I was waiting on line for it I would love that. It also might make some reconsider if they will be limited to a 200 yard or less shot