Wyoming is nuts !!!

[Laramie]

Forum white noise.
I'm still waiting for the lawsuit over the WY wilderness law, going to 90/10....

90/10 creates no legal problems. Call it what you will.

 

[HairyScandinavian]

Apply for a region, take a week to hunt, stay in a motel, and shoot it from the county road. No need for an outfitter.

This thread has gotten off track, I want to hear more about this!!!! lol

 

[wapitibob]

90/10 creates no legal problems. Call it what you will.

Neither does changing a point system or even eliminating them. The state can do what they want with regards to nr hunting. You should know that.

 

[Buglebrush]

Well they need some sort of fix. If I was a top points guy I would want it to stay, but I'm not.
Where I live, they kept most units on the point creep regime but changed 2 high quality units to random draw, not squared points though, complete random and thats not great, no benefit to increase your odds. The zones that stayed on points give 2 tags out per year, and the top pool with 24 points has about 125 people in it.

Point Creep is much worse in a Bonus Points system than a Preference Point one. Ask anyone in Washington. Preference Points are the best kind of points, and the only other viable option is Idaho's method.

 

[Laramie]

Neither does changing a point system or even eliminating them. The state can do what they want with regards to nr hunting. You should know that.

They can do as they please but they will face legal issues if the system is changed or cancelled. They entered a legal agreement when they sold points under the original system. The director of WG&F, and their website at the time, made statements and advertised the system as a guarantee to their customers that they would be able to eventually draw. Changing to a squared or bonus system, would cancel that guarantee. You know that.

They researched and had all the options from the beginning in 1995. They revisited everything again in 1997 and failed to address it even though they had very good information. They made their choice to continue marketing the points as a way to eventually draw a license. https://wyoleg.gov/progeval/reports/1997/license/license.htm

I have video saved, original brochures, etc. The WG&F is very aware of their situation and that is why it hasn't been changed yet. Maybe the rewards will eventually outweigh the negative effects and they will push forward. The higher priced moose and sheep permits have pushed many out so again, their legal responsibility seems to be continually lowering but it won't be eliminated until every person who bought points under the original language has had a chance to use their points.

 

[NRA4LIFE]

Point Creep is much worse in a Bonus Points system than a Preference Point one. Ask anyone in Washington. Preference Points are the best kind of points, and the only other viable option is Idaho's method.

That's not quite an accurate statement. In WA, drawing a tag is random, it is the reduction in tags that is the problem. If you want to compare bonus vs preference, all you have to do is look at the history of drawing certain elk tags in CO. Where once you needed 8, now you need 35-40.

 

[Buglebrush]

Most people don't understand the math, but Bonus Point Systems are terrible. Point creep is ubiquitous across the West, but Bonus Point Systems exacerbate the problem. I am not going to take the time to show you the math, but it's real. Here's a brief summary from AI.

 

[realunlucky]

Most people don't understand the math, but Bonus Point Systems are terrible. Point creep is ubiquitous across the West, but Bonus Point Systems exacerbate the problem. I am not going to take the time to show you the math, but it's real. Here's a brief summary from AI. View attachment 1069948

Preference points are out of fashion because those on the bottom tier are paying for the management costs for decades while having zero opportunity at drawing a tag.

Sent from my SM-S926U using Tapatalk

 

[NRA4LIFE]

I have given up on all states except CO and WA here, as I am getting very close in CO to getting the elk tag I want. Most WA hunters don't realize that the vast majority of us will never draw the elite tags, OIL anything, Quality elk, etc, no matter how long you apply, just because there are just too many people applying for a couple tags. I'm sitting at 20+ points for numerous categories and still have less than a 1% chance of drawing. Yee Ha.

 

[Steve O]

Gotchya, thanks. I’m still hoping they move it to a lottery squared points draw.

Worst idea ever. Study Nevada and see what it’s like drawing a tag there. Or Montana sheep. Terrible idea.

 

[NRA4LIFE]

Worst idea ever. Study Nevada and see what it’s like drawing a tag there. Or Montana sheep. Terrible idea.

Or drawing WA anything. I prefer preference points. At least you have hope of drawing a tag sometime in your life, maybe.

 

[FullCurlEarl]

Most people don't understand the math, but Bonus Point Systems are terrible. Point creep is ubiquitous across the West, but Bonus Point Systems exacerbate the problem. I am not going to take the time to show you the math, but it's real. Here's a brief summary from AI. View attachment 1069948

chatGPT is the source?

 

[BRTreedogs]

chatGPT is the source?

You are convinced you are rite and won’t listen.
He used ChatGPT because he knows you won’t listen and typing a lengthy reply is a waste of time.

 

[FullCurlEarl]

You are convinced you are rite and won’t listen.
He used ChatGPT because he knows you won’t listen and typing a lengthy reply is a waste of time.

Listen, you don’t insult a guy you don’t know anything about, that’s ignorant. Your math isn’t mathing up, and you’re both missing the point. The goal is to attract application dollars to fund resource management. If your sales pitch is “You have a zero chance of ever drawing a moose permit, but please give us your $150 point fee” is failure. But! “The more points you buy the greater your chance above zero is” has the ability to attract new money to keep this operation going. It’s such a successful rudimentary process I’m not sure why you’re struggling with it. I apply in all Western States and know the variations, some are better that others.

 

[Maverick1]

Listen, you don’t insult a guy you don’t know anything about, that’s ignorant.

Then, only a few sentences later…..

It’s such a successful rudimentary process I’m not sure why you’re struggling with it.

Pot meets kettle…..

 

[BRTreedogs]

Listen, you don’t insult a guy you don’t know anything about, that’s ignorant. Your math isn’t mathing up, and you’re both missing the point. The goal is to attract application dollars to fund resource management. If your sales pitch is “You have a zero chance of ever drawing a moose permit, but please give us your $150 point fee” is failure. But! “The more points you buy the greater your chance above zero is” has the ability to attract new money to keep this operation going. It’s such a successful rudimentary process I’m not sure why you’re struggling with it. I apply in all Western States and know the variations, some are better that others.

The math says you won’t draw on bonus points ether.
What’s the math on drawing a Nevada Bull elk tag?

Are you a woman?
Because being wrong, but not listening to reason is your jam.

But absolutely nothing good comes from talking to a know it all.

So I’m out.

 

[rookieforever33]

Western states have multiple systems for applications. Preference, bonus, random, and hybrids. If you do not like one states process for nr tags then don't apply there. Some prefer the somewhat predictability, some prefer the random. Vote with you application dollars, if enough others agree and do the same you will get your way. If not dont apply there. Arguing and insulting other sportsman on the internet does not help anything.

 

[Laramie]

When demand exceeds supply by the margins we are looking at, there is no way to keep everyone happy. Wyoming should have started with a weighted point system from the start. No, the odds aren't good but it would continue to attract point buyers which help fund the state. They can't go there now without some negative repercussions because they were so short sighted. In their defense, the old guys running things at the time likely had no idea the effects of outdoor forms, the overall internet, and YouTube would have on western hunting demand. Everyone should remember, few people even had bag cell phones at the time the PP system was started. It's a different world.