Wyoming Elk General Tag vs LQ Tag

[Newk]

I think you are missing my primary point. Which, in all fairness, I didn't really make clear.

Point averaging is allowing fictitious point holders to displace actual humans that want to hunt.

This really isn't about Grandpa Joe with his 12 preference points allowing his grandson with 0 to average into a 6 point draw together and enjoy one last hooorah before Joe is pushing flowers......

This is about the guys who are doing the following:
Wife-10 points.
Kid 1- 10 points.
Kid 2 10 points.
Aunt-10 points.
Uncle Ron - 10 points.
Uncle Bob - 10 points
Dad- 10 points points.

Year 1 Dad hunts and burned his points on a nice LE hunt.

(GREAT. He got a nice bull and Wyoming will see him again in 10 years????)

NOPE!

Year 2 dad applies as a group (General season Elk 5 point average) with wife and wife doesn't hunt.
Year 3 dad applies as a group (General season Elk 5 point average) with Kid 1 and Kid 1 doesnt hunt.
Year 4 dad applies as a group (General season Elk 5 point average) with Kid 2 and Kid 2 doesn't hunt.
Year 5 dad applies as a group (General season Elk 5 point average) with Aunt and Aunt doesn't hunt.
Year 6 dad applies as a group (General season Elk 5 point average) with Uncle and Uncle doesn't hunt.
Year 7 dad applies as a group (General season Elk 5 point average) with wife and wife doesn't hunt.

This is the scenario that is playing out.

There is now 6 people being displaced in the draw who ACTUALLY want to hunt. This pushed point creep higher and higher.

Point averaging is a JOKE and people with money are gaming the system like a MF. If I had a ton of application money I would 100% could have been doing this for the last 15 years and been living the dream, hunting Wyoming yearly. Just pay for my groups general tag, and when I get it, toss it in the trash if they don't want it and go hunting.

How do you think people are able to hunt G every year as a NR? Think that's fair?

Maybe. Maybe not. I guess it really and truly depends on what end of the point spectrum you are sitting on.

young hunter here. didn't realize this was going on. makes me wonder about buying points every year (considering I will never catch up) when I personally could afford to just pay for landowner fees. although that would seem to take the adventure out of it.

 

[wapitibob]

young hunter here. didn't realize this was going on. makes me wonder about buying points every year (considering I will never catch up) when I personally could afford to just pay for landowner fees. although that would seem to take the adventure out of it.

If you're trying to "catch up", you'll be disappointed. Change your hunt expectations, apply for what you can draw, and go hunt. If you're set on a "high end" hunt only, that LO tag is probably the way.

 

[MallardSX2]

If you're trying to "catch up", you'll be disappointed. Change your hunt expectations, apply for what you can draw, and go hunt. If you're set on a "high end" hunt only, that LO tag is probably the way.

Well said and this is solid advice to anyone looking to start hunting out west.

 

[Newk]

If you're trying to "catch up", you'll be disappointed. Change your hunt expectations, apply for what you can draw, and go hunt. If you're set on a "high end" hunt only, that LO tag is probably the way.

Well said and this is solid advice to anyone looking to start hunting out west.

appreciate it. truthfully don’t care much about trophy quality. for me the “trophy” is the unique experience of hunting a new species and studying its way of life. in this way I would consider myself a “collector”.

though, I personally choose not to subscribe to the idea that there are “too many” new hunters or that western hunting is being “ruined”. What I care about most is conservation, and the more people who care about our wild places, the better. Even if that means I don’t get to harvest as often in certain places, if at all.

I’d rather be able to go explore the public land with no tag, than have it be sold off by the government. In a way the growing popularity of western hunting has worsened this issue (due to increase profitability of running private or leased land outfitting operations), however I believe it will be a net positive 50 years from now.

In a roundabout way, what I mean to say is that it is ok if I never catch up, so long as the resource is protected, I know I’ll have my fair share of opportunities as I age.

Blessed am I with this youthful and healthy body.

 

[Laramie]

appreciate it. truthfully don’t care much about trophy quality. for me the “trophy” is the unique experience of hunting a new species and studying its way of life. in this way I would consider myself a “collector”.

though, I personally choose not to subscribe to the idea that there are “too many” new hunters or that western hunting is being “ruined”. What I care about most is conservation, and the more people who care about our wild places, the better. Even if that means I don’t get to harvest as often in certain places, if at all.

I’d rather be able to go explore the public land with no tag, than have it be sold off by the government. In a way the growing popularity of western hunting has worsened this issue (due to increase profitability of running private or leased land outfitting operations), however I believe it will be a net positive 50 years from now.

In a roundabout way, what I mean to say is that it is ok if I never catch up, so long as the resource is protected, I know I’ll have my fair share of opportunities as I age.

Blessed am I with this youthful and healthy body.

I can understand and appreciate your perspective. I just think anyone who enjoys the outdoors, and specifically elk hunting, should experience a great limited quota hunt at least once in their life. It is a different experience on so many levels. I think guys can get the general tag experience by getting cow tags while building points for their once (or maybe twice) in a lifetime LQ experience.

 

[Newk]

I can understand and appreciate your perspective. I just think anyone who enjoys the outdoors, and specifically elk hunting, should experience a great limited quota hunt at least once in their life. It is a different experience on so many levels. I think guys can get the general tag experience by getting cow tags while building points for their once (or maybe twice) in a lifetime LQ experience.

yeah totally makes sense - and i definitely hope I am blessed with those opportunities at some point! I will keep putting in those lottery tickets and building bp/pref points where applicable. Let us pray to keep our legislators ethical and honest in making sure that revenue goes towards PROTECTING our lands!!!! God Bless brother.

 

[Fetty Wapiti]

So non residents have become their own worst enemies. Let's just move residents and non residents to a bonus point draw system. No true points system, no points sharing, etc.

 

[PredatoronthePrairie]

Honestly I think the way things were had been the best.

A mix of random, bonus and pure preference. Some level predictability mixed in with some luck.

Unless all states could come up with an agreement and spread out the draws evenly than random across the board would be ideal. But that would never fly.

There is more opportunity out there that a guy can hunt in a lifetime.

 

[HOT ROD]

I think you are missing my primary point. Which, in all fairness, I didn't really make clear.

Point averaging is allowing fictitious point holders to displace actual humans that want to hunt.

This really isn't about Grandpa Joe with his 12 preference points allowing his grandson with 0 to average into a 6 point draw together and enjoy one last hooorah before Joe is pushing flowers......

This is about the guys who are doing the following:
Wife-10 points.
Kid 1- 10 points.
Kid 2 10 points.
Aunt-10 points.
Uncle Ron - 10 points.
Uncle Bob - 10 points
Dad- 10 points points.

Year 1 Dad hunts and burned his points on a nice LE hunt.

(GREAT. He got a nice bull and Wyoming will see him again in 10 years????)

NOPE!

Year 2 dad applies as a group (General season Elk 5 point average) with wife and wife doesn't hunt.
Year 3 dad applies as a group (General season Elk 5 point average) with Kid 1 and Kid 1 doesnt hunt.
Year 4 dad applies as a group (General season Elk 5 point average) with Kid 2 and Kid 2 doesn't hunt.
Year 5 dad applies as a group (General season Elk 5 point average) with Aunt and Aunt doesn't hunt.
Year 6 dad applies as a group (General season Elk 5 point average) with Uncle and Uncle doesn't hunt.
Year 7 dad applies as a group (General season Elk 5 point average) with wife and wife doesn't hunt.

This is the scenario that is playing out.

There is now 6 people being displaced in the draw who ACTUALLY want to hunt. This pushed point creep higher and higher.

Point averaging is a JOKE and people with money are gaming the system like a MF. If I had a ton of application $$ I 100% could have been doing this for the last 15 years and been living the dream, hunting Wyoming yearly. Just pay for my groups general tag, and when I get it, toss it in the trash if they don't want it and go hunting.

How do you think people are able to hunt G every year as a NR? Think that's fair?

Maybe. Maybe not. I guess it really and truly depends on what end of the point spectrum you are sitting on.

This isn't illegal and I know several people doing it and have been doing it for a long time now.. I think theirs quite a few NR claiming to be residents to...

 

[HiMtnHntr]

Honestly I think the way things were had been the best.

A mix of random, bonus and pure preference. Some level predictability mixed in with some luck.

Unless all states could come up with an agreement and spread out the draws evenly than random across the board would be ideal. But that would never fly.

There is more opportunity out there that a guy can hunt in a lifetime.

Wyoming nonresident draw IS a mix of preference points and random.

 

[Dexter Grayson]

My plan is to try to draw a LQ in the next 2-4 years (currently 11 points), then I will draw a general tag every chance I have after that. I might be chasing a dream.

I have a 6 year old son and when he is of age I will burn my antelope points (only 4 as of now) just to get him a tag.

I have absolutely zero plan for mule deer .

 

[Maverick1]

Honestly if you are a non resident and add up dollars and years spent building preference points you are probably better off buying a landowner tag in another state. If its going to take 10 years to draw a bull tag save the money instead of buying points. If you go the point route you could likely end up just losing that money if you have a life changing event, or just change your mind. Or go low odds success otc and enjoy the process but know you are not as likely to tag out every time you go. Or you can do what many are doing and move to a state with elk if its that important. But beware, the only thing western state hunters dislike more than non residents, is new residents that move there to hunt.

If you are a NR and want to go the cheapest route, just poach - is that what you are saying - that be the cheapest option? Not advocating for it. One could add up the cost and time to accumulate preference points and a tag and compare to the lower probability of being caught. How much is the fine?

 

[PredatoronthePrairie]

Wyoming nonresident draw IS a mix of preference points and random.

My bad, the way I had read some of last replys I thought they were talking about draws across the west in general.

 

[wapitibob]

My bad, the way I had read some of last replys I thought they were talking about draws across the west in general.

Every state is a bit different which is nice.

 

[Laramie]

A lot of people say they want random but the math says people would wait longer to draw, if ever, if they don't get lucky. I think wyoming has done it very well imo. A mix gives guys the best of both worlds.

 

[wapitibob]

A lot of people say they want random but the math says people would wait longer to draw, if ever, if they don't get lucky. I think wyoming has done it very well imo. A mix gives guys the best of both worlds.

I prefer Bonus Points (UT/AZ) because of the weighted advantage on the random side, but that's just me. I'd like to see AZ go to a 50/50 split bonus pass/1-2 pass, maybe help the mid to lower point guys thru the system.

As for total random NM style, I drew 1 tag in 20 years, and that was 20 years ago.

 

[Indian Summer]

I do like the system in Wyoming. But I think it’s becoming outdated because of the massive increase in hunters chasing big game in western states. The line has just gotten too long. Especially for hunters 60+ years old.

For that reason I think Montana might have a better system right now. Preference for point holders applying for their general licenses. No banking a bunch of points… use them or lose them with a random for those with zero points. And bonus points for limited quota units. Pretty well rounded. But that line will surely get longer too.

In the meantime I’ll throw money at Idaho’s random draw. Early draw results gives me a chance to spin that wheel before other applications are due. And once Colorado goes to the new system I’ll probably throw a Hail Mary pass at some great units that I previously stood no chance of drawing. But only for deer.

I buy my Wyoming antelope point every year too. No complaints. I don’t care how often I hunt them. But elk is a different story. Skipping a year of that sucks!

 

[sasquatch]

I prefer Bonus Points (UT/AZ) because of the weighted advantage on the random side, but that's just me. I'd like to see AZ go to a 50/50 split bonus pass/1-2 pass, maybe help the mid to lower point guys thru the system.

As for total random NM style, I drew 1 tag in 20 years, and that was 20 years ago.

That’s not because NM is random, it’s because of how few tags are given out to NR


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[cnelk]

I’ll draw my 2nd Choice in a LQ Area this year just like I did last year.

If you want to hunt elk every year in Wyoming, you can

 

[rookieforever33]

If you are a NR and want to go the cheapest route, just poach - is that what you are saying - that be the cheapest option? Not advocating for it. One could add up the cost and time to accumulate preference points and a tag and compare to the lower probability of being caught. How much is the fine?

Absolutely not what I am saying. I did not even say it was the cheapest route. I said if your time has value "which it does" 10-15 years of $100 a year you may be better off with a landowner tag right now. There is more to my statement you did not quote. Please do not imply that any of the words I wrote imply poaching. That is not what I wrote.