Wyoming draft regulations 2024

[Travis Hobbs]

Lots of changes, some of the highlights or lowlights in Western Wyoming-
More Non-Resident Tag Reductions
9 day Rifle Seasons
4 point APR’s

Public Meetings | Wyoming Game & Fish Department

The Department welcomes comments regarding proposed changes to regulations. Questions about proposed regulation changes should be directed to Department Regional Offices. No individual Department response will be generated from questions submitted through this commenting forum. To ensure the...

wgfd.wyo.gov

Does any of it really address the problem of a reduced population of deer?

I personally don’t think so. Sucks to see.

 

[bdan68]

Well yes, it does, because with the extra restrictions along with a reduction in the non resident quotas for G and H, less deer will be taken.

 

[wytx]

Yep, I agree. Shorter seasons for all and less licenses for NRs certainly will help, Mother Nature will also have to lend a hand.
4 pt restrictions should be good for about a couple of years, then lift them.

Curious as to why you think it will not help?

Personally happy to see no late season mule deer licenses for our areas, they threatened them for CWD measures.

 

[Mtnman84]

Rough for non residents waiting to draw a tag. Will save a few deer

 

[idelkslayer]

Curious as to why you think it will not help?

Bucks don't give birth.

 

[LostArra]

Bucks don't give birth.

You don't watch the news. They might in Colorado.

 

[jbelz]

APR's serve no purpose other than discouraging certain types of hunters from hunting certain areas. It might reduce a little bit of hunting pressure in an area (which is good), but it does nothing to improve the quality of deer that live there. After 2-3 years, APR's actually have a fairly negative impact on deer populations.

If reduction in pressure was truly a goal, and WGFD really wanted to try something that'd help, they'd do away with statewide Gen tags for residents and make folks pick between archery and rifle seasons. This is coming from a resident who usually puts in for a "once in a lifetime" type of tag because falling back on a Gen tag isn't a bad thing. I can hunt from Sept. 1 to early Nov. across the state on a Gen tag.

Make folks pick an area and a season, see how it works. If nothing else, it'll at least improve the quality of the hunt.

Ultimately, weather and habitat are the biggest factors. And, you've got an explosion of elk, which mule deer lose to in the competition of resources (mule deer lose to every animal in the competition of resources, including whitetail), and probably 15 other factors that play into it.

 

[MuleyFever]

The 4pt restriction is going to hammer the young 4pts right off the bat and reduce the pool of mature 4pts in a few years. That sucks.

 

[sneaky]

Well yes, it does, because with the extra restrictions along with a reduction in the non resident quotas for G and H, less deer will be taken.

APRs have never worked in any state they've been implemented in. It leads to guys leaving 3 points to rot because they killed a buck that isn't legal. They keep hunting at that point. How exactly does that help? It doesn't

Sent from my SM-S918U using Tapatalk

 

[Schoolhousegrizz]

Hmmmm, the cutting tags mentality is not the answer. I was all for it but it's obvious it's not the answer. If you feel it is, do some more research, you might change your mind.

 

[Archer86]

I thought there was a study that showed that the 4 pt restrictions works in a limited capacity after 3 years it starts to go the other way so obviously you wouldn't want to go past what the data shows.

If someone walks away from a deer they shot that wasn't legal who knows what else they are doing thats illegal and hopefully they get caught but that's a lame excuse to not have a apr.

 

[jbelz]

I thought there was a study that showed that the 4 pt restrictions works in a limited capacity after 3 years it starts to go the other way so obviously you wouldn't want to go past what the data shows.

If someone walks away from a deer they shot that wasn't legal who knows what else they are doing thats illegal and hopefully they get caught but that's a lame excuse to not have an apr.

The desired benefit is to shift hunting pressure (strictly for hunt satisfaction) and that only works for a max of 3 years before the herd starts to be negatively impacted

 

[Archer86]

The desired benefit is to shift hunting pressure (strictly for hunt satisfaction) and that only works for a max of 3 years before the herd starts to be negatively impacted

Yeah so it helps for 3 years so why not use the tool you have then change it back when the data shows its going the other way.

 

[HingleMcCringleberry]

Yeah so it helps for 3 years so why not use the tool you have then change it back when the data shows its going the other way.

Because a 3pt restriction has been in place for a long time. Now a 4pt restriction. It's not going to achieve anything except shift all the pressure to the very age class people demanding point restrictions want more of. It makes zero sense.

The correct thing to do would be unpopular to the point of outrage (why they've kept tge 3pt restriction for so long).

 

[Archer86]

Because a 3pt restriction has been in place for a long time. Now a 4pt restriction. It's not going to achieve anything except shift all the pressure to the very age class people demanding point restrictions want more of. It makes zero sense.

The correct thing to do would be unpopular to the point of outrage (why they've kept tge 3pt restriction for so long).

Only some units have had a 3 point restriction not everything in western wyoming had a apr until last year. After a winter that killed a very large number of deer these are the years where the DATA shows the short term benefits of apr that should be utilized. Use the tool then switch it back not really that big of a deal.

More people should be worried about the cut to nr tags then apr. Apr won't matter if they can't get a tag. And whens the last time nr tags got cut then deer numbers recover I bet they don't add the tags back

 

[HingleMcCringleberry]

. And whens the last time nr tags got cut then deer numbers recover I bet they don't add the tags back

Same could be said for point restrictions. Once they're put in place people don't want them to be removed.

Antler Point Restrictions with Wyo Bio Jeff Short

https://www.rokslide.com/antler-point-restrictions-with-wyo-bio-jeff-short/ Jeff’s not only a good biologist, he’s a buck hunter too.

rokslide.com

Fantastic podcasts concerning mule deer management.

 

[Archer86]

Same could be said for point restrictions. Once they're put in place people don't want them to be removed.

Antler Point Restrictions with Wyo Bio Jeff Short

https://www.rokslide.com/antler-point-restrictions-with-wyo-bio-jeff-short/ Jeff’s not only a good biologist, he’s a buck hunter too.

rokslide.com

Fantastic podcasts concerning mule deer management.

Having listen to both of those podcast in the past I will have to go back and listen again but if I rember correctly the wyoming biologist states in that rokcast podcast that the years following a hard winter like we had are the best times to use a apr. Typically not the first year. but the few years following is when you get the best results from a apr restriction. I am not sold on long term apr but short term they have there uses.

 

[HvyBeams]

I'd rather see G&H go to muzzleloaders only (open sites), and stay general, then make them LQ for residents. At least in a few years we could go back to rifles and have general areas. History has showed us that when an area goes LQ they never go back to general, i.e. Platte Valley.

 

[Travis Hobbs]

Yep, I agree. Shorter seasons for all and less licenses for NRs certainly will help, Mother Nature will also have to lend a hand.
4 pt restrictions should be good for about a couple of years, then lift them.

Curious as to why you think it will not help?

Personally happy to see no late season mule deer licenses for our areas, they threatened them for CWD measures.

Attempting to restrict buck harvest will do nothing to rebound the deer population quicker.

In fact a lot of data shows, the higher the buck to doe ratio, the less productive the herd or slower it is to rebound.

After the rough winters in the early 80’s, the buck to doe ratio hit some of its lowest numbers ever estimated, in 1985 specifically, The Wyoming range had a buck to doe ratio of 17 bucks per 100 does, significantly less than where it sits now at around 25 bucks per 100 does.

Yet in the following years after these low buck to doe ratios from 85 to 1990 the fawn to doe ratio was estimated at an amazing 80-90 fawns per 100 does and the Wyoming Range witnessed incredible rebounds, building to a herd of nearly 60k animals. For reference WY Range hasn’t hit 80 fawns per 100 does in over 20 years, in fact I think it has only hit 70 fawns per 100 does once in 20 years.

What Wyoming is doing with these recommendations is similar to a rancher losing 80% of all his cattle, and only selling a portion of his “bull calves” at the auction for 3-4 years to “build his herd”. Sure, he’s got “more animals”, but at what cost? A pasture full of bulls, consuming resources when it could be mother cows isn’t good practice.

APR’s have been in place past the point of helping. The truth is, a great many of the young 1.5 year old bucks die of natural causes anyway, letting hunters take them means little in the population.

Shortening season dates have been shown at times to do very little but restrict opportunity. And in many cases, actually have increased buck harvest and even make hunters spend more days afield than when they had longer dates. I think this is like cutting off your nose to spite your face.

The truth is, I’d bet anyone a 1k dollars, you will never see season dates increase in Western Wyoming once they are limited, history tells me all I need to know.

At the end of the day, I really don’t care what Wyoming does, as my ship has probably sailed in Western Wyoming. I don’t have a dog in the fight. I’m a nonresident and I’ll probably not be able to return unless I get shit house lucky and pull a random tag.

The residents should come first, and if this is what they desire, less opportunity, more restrictions, then so be it.

I think there are way more important places to focus the energy people are putting into restricting buck hunting.

 

[willfrye027]

Attempting to restrict buck harvest will do nothing to rebound the deer population quicker.

In fact a lot of data shows, the higher the buck to doe ratio, the less productive the herd or slower it is to rebound.

After the rough winters in the early 80’s, the buck to doe ratio hit some of its lowest numbers ever estimated, in 1985 specifically, The Wyoming range had a buck to doe ratio of 17 bucks per 100 does, significantly less than where it sits now at around 25 bucks per 100 does.

Yet in the following years after these low buck to doe ratios from 85 to 1990 the fawn to doe ratio was estimated at an amazing 80-90 fawns per 100 does and the Wyoming Range witnessed incredible rebounds, building to a herd of nearly 60k animals. For reference WY Range hasn’t hit 80 fawns per 100 does in over 20 years, in fact I think it has only hit 70 fawns per 100 does once in 20 years.

What Wyoming is doing with these recommendations is similar to a rancher losing 80% of all his cattle, and only selling a portion of his “bull calves” at the auction for 3-4 years to “build his herd”. Sure, he’s got “more animals”, but at what cost? A pasture full of bulls, consuming resources when it could be mother cows isn’t good practice.

APR’s have been in place past the point of helping. The truth is, a great many of the young 1.5 year old bucks die of natural causes anyway, letting hunters take them means little in the population.

Shortening season dates have been shown at times to do very little but restrict opportunity. And in many cases, actually have increased buck harvest and even make hunters spend more days afield than when they had longer dates. I think this is like cutting off your nose to spite your face.

The truth is, I’d bet anyone a 1k dollars, you will never see season dates increase in Western Wyoming once they are limited, history tells me all I need to know.

At the end of the day, I really don’t care what Wyoming does, as my ship has probably sailed in Western Wyoming. I don’t have a dog in the fight. I’m a nonresident and I’ll probably not be able to return unless I get shit house lucky and pull a random tag.

The residents should come first, and if this is what they desire, less opportunity, more restrictions, then so be it.

I think there are way more important places to focus the energy people are putting into restricting buck hunting.

I don’t have a dog in this fight either..but I am skeptical of the low buck:doe ratio being cause and effect for herd production. That period in the 80s had some ideal weather from what I’ve read (I wasn’t alive to see it).

Right now the absolute number of bucks on the landscape is quite low compared to historic numbers. There should be plenty of good feed to go around..I’m not buying that any less mouths to feed would matter all that much. I think (hope) they’ll rebound regardless.

Once the ball is moving towards rebound and they are closer to carrying capacity, I can see a lower buck:doe helping edge things father along and ensure good production.

I can imagine the Wyomingites are doing whatever they can, to make the hunting suck a little less despite the conditions. Help a few more nice bucks grow on the landscape while waiting for better weather conditions. They can do/try what they want I guess.

100% agree that it’s not helping the herd to have a an APR, but I’m also NOT convinced it’s hurting it production when they are so far below carrying capacity, and have good feed/range conditions out there.