WY Wildlife Task Force, 90-10, etc.

[BuzzH]

Buzz,
Do you see any traction with an outfitter set aside or further outfitter benefits?

Thanks,

Hasn't been discussed yet, but its going to be a topic.

I will say that I've not talked to single Resident hunter that is in support of outfitter set asides and 100% are opposed...its a sore subject these days after the crap that went on in Montana.

I think it will be an uphill battle for the outfitters to get the task force to put a proposal forward...but who knows for sure, its a bit of a stacked deck.

Also, it will be an even bigger battle getting it through the legislative process.

 

[mj23polaris]

I'll be honest with out doing alot of homework and reading. As a wy resident I'm in favor of the 90/10 across the board for all species and I'd be willing to pay more for my tags as a result because I know if this went through the state would have to make up for the revenue loss somehow. I was happy when I heard some local deer regions had NR tags cut.

Buttt I get it, I understand how a NR could oppose the 90/10 I feel your pain and I understand you want to be able to hunt out here. But dam some areas are just over crowded. We have short seasons and everything is condensed into 9-10 days say for deer and it makes for a almost competitive environment.

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[wysongdog]

I guess my head has been in th sand, I had no idea this was in the works. My next door neighbor introduced the bill this year, which failed as it was written. I like the task force idea getting more people’s input than before. I’m going to make some of these meetings, Or at least try. As a resident I am biased, but understand nonresident’s frustration. It’s the same frustration I have applying for 5-6 other states i do. Hell I’ve got 20 pp for moose here in Wyoming and can’t draw the tag I want…. The one thing I see on their list that I would love to see is making hunters choose their weapon. As a bow hunter, I think it would really make people think if they really want to bow hunt and out the required effort in or not.

 

[LostArra]

The one thing I see on their list that I would love to see is making hunters choose their weapon. As a bow hunter, I think it would really make people think if they really want to bow hunt and out the required effort in or not.

I just asked Buzz if that topic had much discussion. I've wondered how many non-residents hunt with a rifle if they are unsuccessful with a bow. I do it and it's one of the huge advantages of a Wyoming tag but I would assume it's really more of a resident thing. It seems to me that it could increase opportunity, maybe reduce crowding in some areas and boost revenue for the state without sending tag prices into the stratosphere even if they just separated the weapons for non-residents.

 

[Lawnboi]

Is Wyoming going to do a points buyback for all the non residents who keep getting the goal post moved too?

 

[willfrye027]

I just asked Buzz if that topic had much discussion. I've wondered how many non-residents hunt with a rifle if they are unsuccessful with a bow. I do it and it's one of the huge advantages of a Wyoming tag but I would assume it's really more of a resident thing. It seems to me that it could increase opportunity, maybe reduce crowding in some areas and boost revenue for the state without sending tag prices into the stratosphere even if they just separated the weapons for non-residents.

I would like to see it stay the same with the optional archery stamp in general units. Heck I wouldn’t mind paying even more for it. It’s nice to have a long archery season to spread out the little archery pressure that exists. If they went to pick a weapon I think there would a lot more archery hunting pressure from nonres and the quality of rifle hunts would decrease in a lot of places. The deer I’ve hunted in Wyoming wise up to pressure really fast—archery or rifle. I think we would have lots of nonres hunting on archery tags, and lots of res complaining about nonres pushing the deer into private or the timber prior to rifle opener.

 

[Chad E]

I'll be honest with out doing alot of homework and reading. As a wy resident I'm in favor of the 90/10 across the board for all species and I'd be willing to pay more for my tags as a result because I know if this went through the state would have to make up for the revenue loss somehow. I was happy when I heard some local deer regions had NR tags cut.

Buttt I get it, I understand how a NR could oppose the 90/10 I feel your pain and I understand you want to be able to hunt out here. But dam some areas are just over crowded. We have short seasons and everything is condensed into 9-10 days say for deer and it makes for a almost competitive environment.

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I agree with your sentiment and can't fault a resident for feeling the way you do and there's nothing wrong with looking out for your best interest. I just want to point out as a non resident it gets super old to be blamed for the crowding and competitive environment in a general unit where non residents are capped and have been for some time yet residents aren't. There are far fewer non residents hunting general deer areas in Western Wyoming than residents. Non residents can be blamed for plenty of things but sometimes the numbers just don't justify the frustration.

 

[wysongdog]

I agree with your sentiment and can't fault a resident for feeling the way you do and there's nothing wrong with looking out for your best interest. I just want to point out as a non resident it gets super old to be blamed for the crowding and competitive environment in a general unit where non residents are capped and have been for some time yet residents aren't. There are far fewer non residents hunting general deer areas in Western Wyoming than residents. Non residents can be blamed for plenty of things but sometimes the numbers just don't justify the frustration.

I’m probably the minority here but there’s a lot of the time I’d rather hunt with or around non residents than residents. I know the amount of money and energy it takes to hunt out of state. Nr don’t travel that far to play grab ass and drink and be lazy, they come to hunt. Quite a few residents take their time in the forest for granted or just a get away from the wife and kids and don’t focus as much on hunting as having a good time.. this is a very generalized statement and definitely doesn’t mean everyone is that way. Hell I’ve been one of the ones who took my time for granted and really didn’t get much good hard hunting in. I had a good time but could’ve played grab ass in august lol.

 

[Squincher]

You can contact the task force if you want, but there is zero reason for them to listen to anything a NR has to say. They are going to sell all of their NR tags and a bunch of points regardless. The only two options are to move there, or for every NR to keep their money in their pocket. The latter won't happen because no matter how bad it gets, people will still buy tags no matter how shitty and buy points for tags they and the state know they will never draw. But before you move there consider how many NR access threads there are on here where residents simply say move here like I did or shut up, oppossed to how many threads where western residents are bitching about people moving to their state. Are those the neighbors you want?

There is a whole wide world of hunting opportunities out there, and you'd be surprised how much of it you could pay for with what you already spend on NR tags and points.

(Que Buzz to post a laugh emoji as if he had an original thought.)

 

[sneaky]

I'll be honest with out doing alot of homework and reading. As a wy resident I'm in favor of the 90/10 across the board for all species and I'd be willing to pay more for my tags as a result because I know if this went through the state would have to make up for the revenue loss somehow. I was happy when I heard some local deer regions had NR tags cut.

Buttt I get it, I understand how a NR could oppose the 90/10 I feel your pain and I understand you want to be able to hunt out here. But dam some areas are just over crowded. We have short seasons and everything is condensed into 9-10 days say for deer and it makes for a almost competitive environment.

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Start making residents draw units instead of all piling into one region for general deer. Until Wyoming gets rid of the wilderness rule for hunting it's a non- starter to support anything they do from a NR perspective.

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[RyanT26]

Thanks for keeping us updated.

 

[Jimss]

I thought I'd offer another update! Here's a link to the update.

Wildlife Task Force Set to Recommend 90/10 for Sheep, Goat, Moose, Grizzly, Bison — 307Hunter.com

Finally, a Win! (Maybe ...) I attended Day 1 and part of Day 2 of the 18-Member Wyoming Wildlife Taskforce initial meeting in Casper this week. Big news coming out of the Taskforce is it currently intends to forward a recommendation to the Legislature for the 2022 Session to implement 90/10 tag a

www.307hunter.com

Turns out more members of the Taskforce are in position to benefit financially from Wyoming's Wildlife than we originally thought. G&F Commissioner Brian Nesvik, for example, said his land qualified for landowner tags - though he's never applied for them. Pete Dube, current G&F Commission Chairman, appointed himself to the Taskforce and admitted he was a former outfitter.

As expected, the "Sportsmen" representatives on the Taskforce - Adam Teten, Josh Coursey, and Joe Schaffer, aren't strong and got steamrolled. On Wednesday, Day 1, they incredibly went along with the rest of the group to decide that any issue which receives the minimum 51% of the groups' approval would be forwarded to the Legislature as an "official" Taskforce recommendation. Given that at least 9 of the current 18-member Taskforce are either outfitters, landowners or both, why Teten, Coursey and Schaffer agreed to this is beyond me.

 

[Wags]

You can contact the task force if you want, but there is zero reason for them to listen to anything a NR has to say. They are going to sell all of their NR tags and a bunch of points regardless. The only two options are to move there, or for every NR to keep their money in their pocket. The latter won't happen because no matter how bad it gets, people will still buy tags no matter how shitty and buy points for tags they and the state know they will never draw. But before you move there consider how many NR access threads there are on here where residents simply say move here like I did or shut up, oppossed to how many threads where western residents are bitching about people moving to their state. Are those the neighbors you want?

There is a whole wide world of hunting opportunities out there, and you'd be surprised how much of it you could pay for with what you already spend on NR tags and points.

I couldn't agree more with this....

My family has owned property in Wyoming for 30 + years. I grew up spending my spring/summer/fall breaks as a kid there working around the place, hunting & fishing. My grandfather had been hunting Wyoming since the late 50's and through a lot of hard work had set enough aside to buy a piece of land (when the market was reasonable). Even after years of owning land, leasing grazing to locals, being a good neighbor & having resident status they were still treated as outsiders because they weren't from Wyoming. Doesn't sound like much but in a small community it mattered. Now, as that generation is passing on and more new residents are moving in I believe it's changing the outlook. My grandfather is passed on now and I lost my Dad unexpectedly last year which left the property to me. I do qualify for Non Resident Landowner Tags and take advantage of that draw process for my Son & I. If it weren't for that we couldn't hunt the area we're in.

As far as transferable tags go, I believe that's the back door agenda. If you look at it from a revenue stream perspective the State and local communities are giving up a TON of money by cutting NR tags. The license itself & all of the money that get's injected to the local communities from Gas, food, restaurants, hotels, meat processing, etc.... for a lot of those small towns it's a HUGE amount of the income for the year. To make up some of that lost income allowing landowners to sell tags/vouchers is an olive branch to make up some of the lost income. The Outfitters will DEFINTELY gain here. Use CO for example, a 3rd Rifle Deer Tag Voucher in the 3/301 Area is going for 2500-3K.... Imagine what tags in WY would be going for? It's absolutely about money....

I don't knock WY residents for supporting this. I know that it's frustrating not being able to get a tag where you live. It takes at least 5 points as a resident where I apply as a resident. It sucks! I just hope those who are pushing this in hopes for getting an Elk tag more often realize the chain of resident businesses this will Impact.

 

[RyanT26]

The task force does not have to listen to non-residents. Applications for western states have been increasing substantially the last couple years. For every one person that says the hell with it and quits applying 10-20 people will take his place. Western hunting is the “it” thing right now. The states hold all the cards and if your non-resident your only real hope is to adjust your application strategy and do the best you can with the resources you have. I hope one day soon the boom in hunting interest starts to diminish. You can stick 3Rs where the sun don’t shine. More hunters does not equate more tags, better tags, or more conservation.

 

[wytx]

Wags, what makes you think residents won't spend that same money on their hunts ?
We travel across the state as well, stay in hotels, buy gas and food too.

 

[Wags]

Wags, what makes you think residents won't spend that same money on their hunts ?
We travel across the state as well, stay in hotels, buy gas and food too.

Residents absolutely do spend money and travel. That said, Do you think the same number of resident tagholders that increase will make up that difference in lost income from NR hunters? Let's say 50% of those new resident tag holders travel. That's still a 50% loss from the 100% of NR hunters who do. In the end the small towns that benefit from hunter money will lose income. I'm not saying I blame the resident hunters from wanting this change. I just worry about how many ancillary small businesses will be effected by this reduction of NR Tags. I hope I'm wrong.....

 

[John pettimore]

Seems there is a common belief that the number of tags is going to be reduced... they might, for species other than elk, but I don’t think that is a foregone conclusion. As I understand it 90/10 is for LQ units and (specifically for elk) the number of region tags will be increased to ensure NR’s continue to get 16% of the total tag allocation.

Maybe Buzz can correct me if this is incorrect or add some more insight.

 

[wytx]

Pretty close John but it's the general licenses that will get an increase if LQ go 90/10. That is set by statute I believe.

Wags I don't think you understand how rural most of Wyoming is. Residents have to travel for most of our hunts, not all by any means but a great number. I don't think 50% reduction in hunter revenue to small towns will happen. Heck we just made a scouting trip for a moose tag. How many NR get to make 2 or even more trips out for a license? We have a trip planned in Sept for the moose and then again in Oct if needed. We have pronghorn tags in another area and will travel to a close town to stay for that as well. Might make 2 trips for pronghorn if we don't find suitable bucks on first one, again with lodging and food etc.
Plenty of NR bring their food with them and camp. Fuel may be their only expense once here.

 

[LostArra]

If 90-10 is the "going rate' then I can see a push by residents to move to that number. The awakening will come when residents realize that difficult-to-draw LE resident tags are still difficult to draw after the change.

The "local economy" input by non-resident hunters just based on my own experience is not that important. We leave home fully prepared to hunt. Yes, we buy some fuel but with 7-10 days of hunting time we don't spend it strolling a local Wyoming grocery store.

Just looking at other states, the huge question will be what influence the outfitters have in the Task Force final recommendations.

 

[Wags]

Pretty close John but it's the general licenses that will get an increase if LQ go 90/10. That is set by statute I believe.

Wags I don't think you understand how rural most of Wyoming is. Residents have to travel for most of our hunts, not all by any means but a great number. I don't think 50% reduction in hunter revenue to small towns will happen. Heck we just made a scouting trip for a moose tag. How many NR get to make 2 or even more trips out for a license? We have a trip planned in Sept for the moose and then again in Oct if needed. We have pronghorn tags in another area and will travel to a close town to stay for that as well. Might make 2 trips for pronghorn if we don't find suitable bucks on first one, again with lodging and food etc.
Plenty of NR bring their food with them and camp. Fuel may be their only expense once here.

I may not have the same perspective as a resident & I do understand that a lot of Residents do travel for hunts there.
My property is outside of a “town” that doesn’t even have a gas station. I’ve gone over most of Wyoming the last 30 years. It’s as rual as it gets. Hell most city’s have populations that exceed the states population. Which is exactly why I’ll be moving there in a few years. I may not be a full time resident but I’m watching this planning on my future.

However if you residents don’t think loosing NR money will hurt you then good on you & press on with limiting tags.

I still think it’s opening Pandora’s box but who knows, it may benefit the residents. If they go to transferable tags your access will decrease as landowners who don’t hunt or use all their allocated tag apps start pulling vouchers and making money off them. Nobody can blame them. I’ve sold one of mine in Colorado when I got transferred and couldn’t make the hunt. It’s a slippery slope, time will tell ....