Would you buy this scope?

[Castle Rock]

True.
There are several variations of what Form described.

But in general, if you shoot your laser a few times, you'll find a landmark/cutoff line for AIM LONG and sometimes also AIM SHORT.

It is perhaps one of the most/more valuable tools in the reticle.

Once you start shooting, you can just eyeball how far/close they are tonthe landmarks and hold a corresponding "eyeball measure" towards AIM LONG/SHORT.

Very good for the chaos where the target will stand for a few seconds only before it rejoins the herd. You can really snatch the opportunities presented and get well into the second magazine.

But you need to be disciplined, observe impact, hear the smack to asses the shot or track it until you're certain. Count the deer, have an idea of area and respect the cutoff line however deep you are in the red mist.

Plenty of time to regret the success; you do not need to add "tracking" to the list...

This is exactly what we do when culling, make a mental range card before the action begins, often there are two of us and we each cover a sector

 

[prm]

I see the math and the application of the shoot long and short, but without quite a bit of practice I doubt I would pull it off in a real situation.

 

[IrkedCitizen]

I am well aware they built THEIR scope. I will own a few. I like how it turned out. But part of the derailment has been MIL/MOA related.

The burrito conversation was funny. The manufacturer representative even indulged and furthered it.

 

[Castle Rock]

I see the math and the application of the shoot long and short, but without quite a bit of practice I doubt I would pull it off in a real situation.

It’s not intended for the masses

 

[Formidilosus]

I see the math and the application of the shoot long and short, but without quite a bit of practice I doubt I would pull it off in a real situation.

No one can. Killing optimally is quite different than “ima take my rifel and find me a baar”.

 

[Formidilosus]

Two dead already, two more dropping, one of the two runners gets killed just off screen. Three shooters, working simultaneously, and in a specific fashion.




6 came in, and 6 should have been left in the field.

 

[prm]

It’s not intended for the masses

Nooo, really?! That is obvious. (Just kidding around!)

What I like about this reticle is the intuitive point and shoot of the German #1, or the fundamental dial and hold, is there, but it has other elements, that IF PRACTICED, could genuinely improve field shooting. It would give me something to work at (along with 100 other things I need to improve upon…)

 

[Formidilosus]

Nooo, really?! That is obvious. (Just kidding around!)

What I like about this reticle is the intuitive point and shoot of the German #1, or the fundamental dial and hold, is there, but it has other elements, that IF PRACTICED, could genuinely improve field shooting. It would give me something to work at (along with 100 other things I need to improve upon…)

Yes sir. There is quite a few hidden capabilities inside of the reticle. When those capabilities are known, practiced, and used appropriately- killing gets simpler.

 

[streamerfish]

Besides the obvious, waiting for a more firmed up timeline, I am looking forward to seeing more reticle pics in the field at different variable settings.

 

[huntnful]

Besides the obvious, waiting for a more firmed up timeline, I am looking forward to seeing more reticle pics in the field at different variable settings.

Definitely more field reticle pics.

@Formidilosus can we get more reticle pics against deer in the field with the given yardages for reference whenever you think about it. Even afterwards when they’re just laying there dead is good.

 

[Formidilosus]

Definitely more field reticle pics.

@Formidilosus can we get more reticle pics against deer in the field with the given yardages for reference whenever you think about it. Even afterwards when they’re just laying there dead is good.

Haha. Sure. I will try to get some in the next couple of days.

 

[streamerfish]

Haha. Sure. I will try to get some in the next couple of days.

Thank you sir....

 

[omicron1792]

Haha. Sure. I will try to get some in the next couple of days.

What I want is before the first round of scopes are delivered, I want a video of you explaining the best uses of the reticle.

I got a lot of metric learning to do before I get my scope.

 

[Formidilosus]

What I want is before the first round of scopes are delivered, I want a video of you explaining the best uses of the reticle.

I got a lot of metric learning to do before I get my scope.

No problem.

 

[mlevimadden]

What I want is before the first round of scopes are delivered, I want a video of you explaining the best uses of the reticle.

I got a lot of metric learning to do before I get my scope.

@THLR's playlist on Youtube
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLVQyfTUUezJjsVBhvmBZSQFrNN42PGvB6

And @Formidilosus' notes in post #3 of the Minox drop thread have been helpful for me.
https://rokslide.com/forums/threads/minox-zp5-5-25x56mm-thlr-field-evaluation.253283/post-2475568

But agreed, I feel like I still have a ton to learn to understand all the reticle features and a video would be helpful.

 

[Speaks]

The market share question is not always straight forward.

My business is totally unrelated and not that interesting. I often have customers ask for a variation of services we offer yhat I dont think will be good so I dont. It would be easy, high margin, not a distraction, and increase market share and revenue. But part of my brand is only delivering the absolute best and if its not that I wont do it.

Their decision not to do MOA strikes me as a bit like that.

 

[Unknown Munitions]

Hello Roksliders,

I don't spend enough time on here with you guys, but here is some additional info regarding the new S2H scope.

If this scope spec sheet has already been posted (see bottom of post), I apologize cause I'm posting it again. Eventually it will be typed in to the product description as specs are verified on the scope.

As you know Form is deep into testing and by all accounts things are looking very positive. It's unusual for me to see him so excited about something with relatively nothing negative to say about it. When he first picked it up on the table at our SHOT show meeting, he was smiles ear to ear without even knowing how it would test yet.

I only caught the latest couple pages of comments so I will address a couple things with my 2 cents.

RETICLES:

We have to invest a large chunk of money in to every reticle we request for tooling. As most of Rokslide is on the MIL wagon, of course we started there. Form's THLR reticle may not be for everyone, so there is another MIL reticle option that is very basic offered by ZT. I personally brought up the lack of MOA reticle as an issue, but we agreed after the first couple runs of scopes with everything on the up and up, we will add one quickly.

SCOPE CAPS:

We are carrying the scope bumper caps on S2H and if not already offered in the correct sizes we will request them from the manufacturer. No other plans have been solidified for offering any other options, if there are any other highly desirable/doable contenders we would consider them. If there are quite a few, then maybe another poll would be a good idea: https://www.shoot2hunt.com/product/the-scope-bumper/

SHOOT2HUNT LOGO ON OBJECTIVE:

This will be discussed next week at the Hunt Expo. I think we should figure out a way to make it black or somehow more subdued. This will all depend on cost and options. Right now LOW simply laser engraves into the anodized aluminum and that's why its white looking and bright. We are of course proud of the scope and wanted our logo on it with ZT, but not at the expense of customer satisfaction and sexiness. Update will come soon.

ORDERING/ LEAD TIME/ ETC:

No decisions have been made for this process just yet. Those that are S2H podcast listeners have heard some details about what S2H is on the hook for when it comes to ordering. We expect to place our first order with ZT in just a few weeks. ZT has a long track record of data for the ordering and lead time process with Light Optical Works in Japan. It is a very straight forward 6 month lead from order acceptance to scopes ready to ship from LOW. There are minimum order quantities as well but we should be well above those. We are well aware of previous pre order, back order, deposit, and lead time issues of the past and want nothing more than to never make those same mistakes again and offer you guys the best customer service and products that we can.

That being said, we have no idea how many to order, how many of each reticle, and so on. When our order is ready to ship from Japan we are required to pay in full. Due to capital limitations, I don't have a million dollars in the bank to order 1000 scopes which I think we could probably sell rather quickly but cannot commit to 6 months ahead of time.

We could do it the very slow way and order 50 scopes at a time and have no problem paying up front, but you guys would become way too hungry to get one of these highly affordable, way to much value for the money, drop tested, sexy AF scopes. ZT and S2H did everything we could to keep this scope at the $999 retail price while still passing the drop test and not removing features.

My current plan is to.........

1- Create an ordering plan with proposed dates and reasonable quantities agreed on by our S2H/ZT team.
2- Build the product on the website with this proposed production chart.
2- Open up a 10% ($100) deposit option to secure your scope and choose your reticle.
3- As orders are being placed, your order number will count down from the max number of let's say 500, or whatever the chart takes us to. You will know when your scope will be delivered based on the chart and your quantity number and then the wait begins.
4- We use your order quantities and reticle options to validate the production chart.
5- Then we can place our sequential orders with ZT. 6 months to produce and 10 days to get from Japan to Post Falls Idaho. This is of course an estimate, but has a ton of ZT data and experience backing it up.
6- We would then test each one individually on the collimator as it arrives to Idaho and ship to you in order.

We want to keep order quantities reasonable for the first few runs to make sure LOW is doing a great job for us. That will allow us to request any changes needed in between shipments. Although we are testing extensively by dropping and field testing, an unforeseen problem could arise that needs fixing which brings us up to warranty. The warranty is everything you'd want it to be with ZT's full backing. The initial policy for a verified scope issue will be to send you a replacement. We will be highly motivated to hear about, troubleshoot, and fix any potential issue that may arise.

We will have the scope at the Hunt Expo in SLC at both Unknown Munitions booth 202 and the Zero Tech booth 7312. Please stop by and see it if you're around!

As always, we very much appreciate all of your support. Projects like this would never be possible without it.

Jake Mushaney

@Ryan Avery @Formidilosus @Salmon River Solutions @ZeroTech Optics @Unknown Suppressors

 

[Mik123]

Will Canadians be allowed to preorder?

 

[Bluumoon]

What this thread and the others have shown is that people do want MOA. Whether MIL is better overall is beside the point. Market share is being lost due to there being no MOA offering.

Would you also like to ask for the Rokstok with the butt stock reversed. You know, not above bore and sloping to the rear?

FFS , we all understand you guys don’t want to change/evolve or even try something that is objectively better. That’s fine.

You are asking people who have fought to convince the industry (with no fiscal benefit to themselves ) to offer the best product possible, failing that they found a way to do it themselves. Now you are asking them to sacrifice intellectual integrity to offer the same shite they’ve been trying to move past.

You are like a supply clerk or CEO telling a heart surgeon he can’t use a heart graft that he perfected with superior outcomes and lower cost that they have to offer a inferior heart graft just because you aren’t familiar with it.

That really is the level of expertise and ego (by this I mean confidence and lack of needing your validation) you are arguing with. Most of us are lucky to be in the room and a few of us try to be helpful.

It’s good to question the how and why, you know learning… but sometimes you need to shut up and watch.

 

[Okie_Poke]

Would you also like to ask for the Rokstok with the butt stock reversed. You know, not above bore and sloping to the rear?

FFS , we all understand you guys don’t want to change/evolve or even try something that is objectively better. That’s fine.

You are asking people who have fought to convince the industry (with no fiscal benefit to themselves ) to offer the best product possible, failing that they found a way to do it themselves. Now you are asking them to sacrifice intellectual integrity to offer the same shite they’ve been trying to move past.

You are like a supply clerk or CEO telling a heart surgeon he can’t use a heart graft that he perfected with superior outcomes and lower cost that they have to offer a inferior heart graft just because you aren’t familiar with it.

That really is the level of expertise and ego (by this I mean confidence and lack of needing your validation) you are arguing with. Most of us are lucky to be in the room and a few of us try to be helpful.

It’s good to question the how and why, you know learning… but sometimes you need to shut up and watch.

I mean, I get it, and I’m surprised, but . . .

RETICLES:

We have to invest a large chunk of money in to every reticle we request for tooling. As most of Rokslide is on the MIL wagon, of course we started there. Form's THLR reticle may not be for everyone, so there is another MIL reticle option that is very basic offered by ZT. I personally brought up the lack of MOA reticle as an issue, but we agreed after the first couple runs of scopes with everything on the up and up, we will add one quickly.

Can we put this to bed and all be friends again?