Would you buy this scope?

[z987k]

Specifically not the BS "xx% light transmission" numbers companies throw out, but functional in terms of what I can expect it to do in low, dim shadows and twilight. As in, "Allows for complete visibility of both reticle and antler tines at 200 yards in the open 23 minutes after sunset", along with usability comparisons, like "Matches NF/Maven/Leupold by the minute after sunset."

The problem with a statement like that is it depends what your latitude is. 23mins after sunset here might as well be noon.
In Southern Florida, it gets dark real quick. Norther MN, sunset to civil twilight end is a lot longer.

 

[alpine_troop]

Yes, I’d buy one

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

The problem with a statement like that is it depends what your latitude is. 23mins after sunset here might as well be noon.
In Southern Florida, it gets dark real quick. Norther MN, sunset to civil twilight end is a lot longer.

I’ve had literally thousands of sight pictures on coyotes, wolves, and deer in Northern Minnesota WELL before and after legal shooting light.

Leupold, Meopta, Vortex, Minox, SWFA, and Maven have all been able to easily make killing shots whether in woods, swamps, or open farm fields.

What currently available scopes “glass” would not suffice for this is my question.

 

[z987k]

I’ve had literally thousands of sight pictures on coyotes, wolves, and deer in Northern Minnesota WELL before and after legal shooting light.

Leupold, Meopta, Vortex, Minox, SWFA, and Maven have all been able to easily make killing shots whether in woods, swamps, or open farm fields.

What currently available scopes “glass” would not suffice for this is my question.

Right, that's because the legislatures that passed the legal shooting light laws are either dumbing it way down because they don't think people could figure out what civil/nautical/astro twilight is or don't realize themselves X hour / mins before/after sunset is not the same amount of light depending on latitude and date.
23mins after sunset in August in MN is a lot brighter than 23mins after sunset in FL. Even northern MN to southern MN there's going to be a noticeable difference.
So some blanket statement from a scope manufacturer that X mins after sunset you can see X, they'd have to qualify that with the latitude and the date. It'd be entirely meaningless outside that date and location.

 

[Ralphie]

Revamp the Bushnell lrhs 3-12 with a better reticle and sleeker turrets. I'd buy at least one. Keep some decent tube length for mounting flexibility.

Something by nightforce is a no for me as long as the whiny poacher is on their payroll.

 

[ZackP]

I made it to page 5. I’ll re read the rest of the thread when I get to work, may as well get paid to read it!

On another note, I would be in especially around the $1200-$1300 mark. That’s all I am really comfortable spending on a scope and the SHV F1 is where it would fall in line with but lighter!

 

[seand]

Probably- im not a penny pincher but it depends on price and what’s available at the time.

Assuming SWFA releases their updated scopes by the time this would be completed and released to market, and assuming the 3-9 is still half the price of the proposed new RS scope it’s going a hard sell for me over the 3-9 as it won’t do anything better for my purposes on a pure hunting rig.

A crossover type match/varmint rifle, sure I guess. I got a maven RS1.2 for this purpose and it’s been great. The proposed new 3-12 doesn’t offer much to like over the maven for this role IMO. it would if it was 4-16 or 5-20x.

It’s so funny to me reading opinions- you can’t make everyone happy. Some are good with 6x on the low end (or just fixed 6x), some absolutely need 2-3x min.

 

[RockAndSage]

The problem with a statement like that is it depends what your latitude is. 23mins after sunset here might as well be noon.
In Southern Florida, it gets dark real quick. Norther MN, sunset to civil twilight end is a lot longer.

Yes, most people know and understand this. The point is the need for functional, real-world benchmarking and performance that doesn't hide behind "light transmission" "data" and other jargon that itself is often deliberately used by optics companies to obfuscate functional realities. A good example of this is how some companies give that data for a specific lens, others do it for the whole system.

Do side-by-side comparisons if nothing else, including lowlight comparisons, similar to some of the optics reviews @robby denning has published here.

 

[RockAndSage]

I’ve had literally thousands of sight pictures on coyotes, wolves, and deer in Northern Minnesota WELL before and after legal shooting light.

Leupold, Meopta, Vortex, Minox, SWFA, and Maven have all been able to easily make killing shots whether in woods, swamps, or open farm fields.

What currently available scopes “glass” would not suffice for this is my question.

A few weeks back @Formidilosus published a review of a pretty expensive March scope that, while they supposedly have some of the best glass on the market, he was very clear was just not good quality. Maybe he can share some info on what made that glass poor compared to others, and add here on what "good glass" should functionally mean.

 

[wirehead]

Scope specs:

FFP 3-12x40 to 3-12x44mm

Consistently holds zero through 3-foot drops and 3,000 rounds of constant use.

The reticle is specially designed for 25 to 600 yards, with bold outer posts and correct center aiming references.

Zero Stop

Low profile top turret.

Capped windage.

Large eye box

Good glass

20oz


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Yes, price being the unstated variable. Got to be better value than Night Force…

 

[sickles107]

Another buyer for 2 or 3.

It seams when I use an swfa 6x, it's the lowest zoom I would ever need even for close timber hunting, and all I need to hold center on an antelope/deer/elk out to ~500. After that gets a bit hard to see/center.

Then prefer swfa 10x for steel and paper just because it's a touch easier to see/center the target, and is the highest zoom I need on 2moa targets out to 1000.

Not sure of the technicalities, but something like a short throw 5-10 or 6-12 is realistically all the zoom needed for practical hunting and shooting In my limited experience.

After that, in a perfect world, capped windage, fixed or low pro parallax, a simple .5 mil hash reticle, and for the love of god NON ILLUMINATED.

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

Yes, price being the unstated variable. Got to be better value than Night Force…

Nightforce reticles suck for hunting, not unusable, but not excellent either.

A “night force” with a better reticle, lighter weight, better eye box, likely better “glass”, and better turret design is what’s being discussed.

 

[MidGAHunter]

I'm very interested in this scope assuming the price is in line with the Maven RS1.2. I'd buy at least one right away for some testing and depending on that I might buy 2-3 (or more) more. I'm a definite yes for one, a possible for 3-4.

 

[wirehead]

Nightforce reticles suck for hunting, not unusable, but not excellent either.

A “night force” with a better reticle, lighter weight, better eye box, likely better “glass”, and better turret design is what’s being discussed.

I get that… and this scope sounds like a NF +$500k. Less interested…

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

I get that… and this scope sounds like a NF +$500k. Less interested…

I used that comparison only because you mentioned nightforce as if they are the be all end all.

The idea here is it will be better than any current night force scope, specifically designed for killing. Across the entire board of whatever spec you want to throw out.

You seem to not be grasping what this project plans to be.

 

[wirehead]

I used that comparison only because you mentioned nightforce as if they are the be all end all.

The idea here is it will be better than any current night force scope, specifically designed for killing. Across the entire board of whatever spec you want to throw out.

You seem to not be grasping what this project plans to be.

Not really sure and I’m not so interested in any further back and forth here. Answered OP question with my opinion, as I’m sure you did, and that’s cool.

I said I’d buy one but suggested NF is a market value pricing standard… nothing else. Let’s move on.

 

[Mike D Texas]

$1500 for 12x on the top end, no illumination? It better have damn good glass, turrets, reticle and be bomb proof reliable.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

 

[Timberline001]

@Formidilosus,
Not trying to be smart here, but several of us gave our answers. We’re very interested, and several have said hands down they would buy it. It’s hard to commit without knowing more. I love my two Tenmile 3-18 FFP Mil scopes, but this concept scope is something I would look at strongly to convert to. Would like to see it at no more than $1200, to compete with the Maven. If it’s more than the Maven, why wouldn’t I just buy the Maven. Again, I mean no smart reply. Genuine points/questions.

I’d take it over the maven if I can get it. Haven’t gotten a maven in 4 attempts.

 

[atmat]

I’d take it over the maven if I can get it. Haven’t gotten a maven in 4 attempts.

I would, too, and I have several Mavens.

They’re awesome scopes. But they’re heavy and the turrets are excessively large.

The SB Klassic 3-12 is what turrets should be like.

 

[Timberline001]

Does getting to 15x or 16x magnification come at that much more of a weight penalty? I would like to see a 3x15 or 4x16 with a simple reticle, I would buy one for sure. Probably two of them

Same. 4-16 is my favorite