Worthwhile to Upgrade Hunting Optic?

[Veloci_Wrench]

This may be laughable to some, or I may be overthinking things, but I am considering upgrading optics because I'm not sure if my scope isn't holding zero, or if I have an inaccurate rifle. I only have 1 rifle and 1 scope, so I can't move things around without spending money. My gun is a Sig Cross .308, w/ a Burris Fullfield E1 3-9x50 sitting in Talley Modern Sporting Rings. When I take it target shooting, I can't get any better than 1.5moa (could totally be me, or maybe I shouldn't expect better), but this past whitetail season, I had a small buck come out at 120 yards at last light. His small size tricked me into thinking he was farther away at 150+. I aimed a couple inches high above the shoulder line, and totally missed. Went right over him. I hunt suppressed, so he was startled and moved, but came back.

I just assumed I pulled the shot, so aimed in same spot, another miss. This time, he didn't even move, so I aimed dead center of him, and hit his spine. Here's this thing, I had just confirmed zero at 100 yards the day prior, same temps, etc. Thankfully, he's in my freezer. I have not checked the gun since, as I'm in New England, and there is currently 12in of fresh snow on the ground, and my "range" is an old field with targets leaning against a tree.

1) So should I wait until I can test the scope again and do a tracking test, etc? Or should I grab a presumably better scope and test the Burris against that?

2) If I do grab another scope, do most people get along well with FFP in the low magnification setting? I'm considering an SWFA, Meopta, or Sightron.

Thanks in advance!

 

[ResearchinStuff]

JBM - Calculations

www.jbmballistics.com

spend some time familiarizing yourself with the ballistics table for your 308 - holding above the fur at 150 is not necessary, and going hunting with a scope that doesn't really dial and the rifle set up to be dead-on at 100 yards is a strange way to handicap yourself to begin with (read up on max point blank range if you hunt close distance and don't want to dial in the field).

All that being said, sure, it's possible that your scope has problems. tracking/drop tests are good ways to figure that out for sure. It's also a good idea to go over your stuff and figure out if there's a crack, loose screw, or oil that is causing the changes, because those things won't get fixed by a new scope.

The SWFA 3-9, 6x, and 3-15 are all really good hunting scopes, owning all 3 my preference goes in the order listed.

 

[Rifles And More]

What yardage was the deer really at?

 

[Shootinsurveyor]

Get Strelok PRO and check out the reticle part of the app. It will give you a idea of what distances will look like in with the reticle you have. I've always heard never hold off hair for normal hunting distances (east coast).

 

[Veloci_Wrench]

What yardage was the deer really at?

At 120. Lots of fog and last light had me believing he was on the other side of 150 at least.

 

[Veloci_Wrench]

JBM - Calculations

www.jbmballistics.com

spend some time familiarizing yourself with the ballistics table for your 308 - holding above the fur at 150 is not necessary, and going hunting with a scope that doesn't really dial and the rifle set up to be dead-on at 100 yards is a strange way to handicap yourself to begin with (read up on max point blank range if you hunt close distance and don't want to dial in the field).

All that being said, sure, it's possible that your scope has problems. tracking/drop tests are good ways to figure that out for sure. It's also a good idea to go over your stuff and figure out if there's a crack, loose screw, or oil that is causing the changes, because those things won't get fixed by a new scope.

The SWFA 3-9, 6x, and 3-15 are all really good hunting scopes, owning all 3 my preference goes in the order listed.

Thanks for the input. I mis-typed, and I can't edit OP, but I had my crosshair 2" above where I would normally aim on a deer (centered vertically on torso, just behind shoulder blade) Yeah, I should have just aimed there for a double-lung like always, but even aiming 2 inches above that, the bullet was still roughly 4-6" off my crosshairs. I do a mix of still hunting and field hunting. Everything inside of 350 yards so far.

Mechanically speaking, everything looks fine. I worked a trade for years that required specialty tools and exact torque values, so not much gets by me in terms of installation error, damage, etc. Picatinny base, rings, scope, all look good. I appreciate the feedback for SWFA.

 

[triglet40]

I would shoot again at 100 to confirm zero first. You will know if it was you or the rifle at that point.

 

[Veloci_Wrench]

I would shoot again at 100 to confirm zero first. You will know if it was you or the rifle at that point.

Definitely the most reasonable plan of action. I was sort of wondering if people would lambaste the Burris or me. So far, the Burris is unscathed by comments. Lol

 

[ResearchinStuff]

Some guys like Burris, I've never run one, and there hasn't been a drop test of one here. No clue how they'd do in that.

 

[KenLee]

That's a good scope FOR THE MONEY.
I'd shoot it from the bench and if possible from a stand (if you hunt elevated).
Learn your rifles ballistics and maximum point blank range. Many hunters simply zero at 200 yards and point and shoot to 300 yards. Not a bad strategy. With a 308, you may need to drop back to 260ish on the point and shoot.

 

[Macintosh]

You didnt say what your rest was? If you took a 120 yard shot offhand and hit 4-6" high , that's normal to be off a few inches off, was almost certainly shooter error. If you had a rock-solid rest, well then maybe its time to do a deeper dive. If the rest would cause you to handle recoil differently than when you zeroed the rifle (i.e. sitting agsint a tree instead of at a bench, something along those lines), it will also throw your shot off a bit. Regardless, by all means check those mounts to make sure it isnt loose, confirm zero, and once zeroed practice shooting from field positions to see what you are capable of, and shoot at various ranges to see where you hit. I dont know if you are a longtime hunter, but buck fever is a real thing too, even on little deer. Add in cold fingers, a less than steady rest, uncertain distance, etc and some practice will help a LOT when you are functioning at 50% of your normal ability becasue dinner is walking up the trail toward you.

Also, nothing wrong with a 100 yard zero on a point and shoot gun in new england imo. unless you're hunting over ag fields, 120 yards is a long shot in this neighborhood. Lots of guys I know zero at 50 or 75 yards...I dont think that's necessarily a good idea, but just for the edification of anyone thinking you "need" to use a MPBR zero, even with a 308 a 100 yard zero should still be only about 3" low out to 200 yards or so, which would be an exceptionally long shot for the woods here. Yes, lots of folks zero at 200 yards or so to have a point and shoot gun out to 250+ yards, but it gives you additional built-in error for 95% of your shots that are less than 100 yards, while only giving you an extra 50-60 yards of range that is rarely used. If you hunt around fields where you'd routinely have shots past 200 yards then it might make more sense to do something like this.

 

[Veloci_Wrench]

You didnt say what your rest was? If you took a 120 yard shot offhand and hit 4-6" high , that's normal to be off a few inches off, was almost certainly shooter error. If you had a rock-solid rest, well then maybe its time to do a deeper dive. If the rest would cause you to handle recoil differently than when you zeroed the rifle (i.e. sitting agsint a tree instead of at a bench, something along those lines), it will also throw your shot off a bit. Regardless, by all means check those mounts to make sure it isnt loose, confirm zero, and once zeroed practice shooting from field positions to see what you are capable of, and shoot at various ranges to see where you hit. I dont know if you are a longtime hunter, but buck fever is a real thing too, even on little deer. Add in cold fingers, a less than steady rest, uncertain distance, etc and some practice will help a LOT when you are functioning at 50% of your normal ability becasue dinner is walking up the trail toward you.

Also, nothing wrong with a 100 yard zero on a point and shoot gun in new england imo. unless you're hunting over ag fields, 120 yards is a long shot in this neighborhood. Lots of guys I know zero at 50 or 75 yards...I dont think that's necessarily a good idea, but just for the edification of anyone thinking you "need" to use a MPBR zero, even with a 308 a 100 yard zero should still be only about 3" low out to 200 yards or so, which would be an exceptionally long shot for the woods here. Yes, lots of folks zero at 200 yards or so to have a point and shoot gun out to 250+ yards, but it gives you additional built-in error for 95% of your shots that are less than 100 yards, while only giving you an extra 50-60 yards of range that is rarely used. If you hunt around fields where you'd routinely have shots past 200 yards then it might make more sense to do something like this.

You're right I didn't, and another thing I didn't mention, is that this particular hunt was down south in NC over a bean field, so had no depth perception once the fog rolled in. I was in a home-made blind with my gun resting on a vertical wooden pallet, no bag. Now that I think about it, it's highly likely that the pallet was rocking back from recoil. But I definitely had buck fever, I struck out in VT, and took advantage of a late family Thanksgiving trip.

Interestingly enough, I spend more time still-hunting, but have taken all my deer in fields. Usually sitting in the tree line with my gun on my knee. I should give the Burris a solid checking again, and also practice different positions like you mentioned.

 

[OKHunter84]

Definitely the most reasonable plan of action. I was sort of wondering if people would lambaste the Burris or me. So far, the Burris is unscathed by comments. Lol

I only have had experience with one Burris scope. It's the Burris veracity 4-20-50 FFP. I have it on a Browning x bolt and it's been a good scope so far. I even dropped this rig on a hunt once and my zero was still good.

I would bet you got excited and pulled a little. I did the exact same thing once a long time ago. Assumed a deer was further and aimed high and missed. Another thing to check is make sure you're zeroing with the suppressor on. I know that's a no brainer and you most likely know that but it will change your zero.

 

[Veloci_Wrench]

I only have had experience with one Burris scope. It's the Burris veracity 4-20-50 FFP. I have it on a Browning x bolt and it's been a good scope so far. I even dropped this rig on a hunt once and my zero was still good.

I would bet you got excited and pulled a little. I did the exact same thing once a long time ago. Assumed a deer was further and aimed high and missed. Another thing to check is make sure you're zeroing with the suppressor on. I know that's a no brainer and you most likely know that but it will change your zero.

I appreciate the insight. I actually never shoot unsupressed, so all my guns are zeroed with suppressor on.

I very well could have pulled the first shot, but once I realized that the projectiles were going over the deer, I aimed dead center on him, and bullet impacted just under his spine, so I do believe the scope lost zero. I pulled the scope off later during the winter and found that the Tally rings had crushed the scope tube at only 18 in/lbs (I use a torque wrench for everything). I sent the scope back to Burris and they sent back a brand new scope. I have since installed SWFAs on both of my main rifles.

 

[OKHunter84]

I appreciate the insight. I actually never shoot unsupressed, so all my guns are zeroed with suppressor on.

I very well could have pulled the first shot, but once I realized that the projectiles were going over the deer, I aimed dead center on him, and bullet impacted just under his spine, so I do believe the scope lost zero. I pulled the scope off later during the winter and found that the Tally rings had crushed the scope tube at only 18 in/lbs (I use a torque wrench for everything). I sent the scope back to Burris and they sent back a brand new scope. I have since installed SWFAs on both of my main rifles.

Were the rings lapped? That is concerning if it crushed the tube.

The Burris veracity I have and my friend has one as well both seem to be nice. I haven't looked but is the fulfield one of their lower end ones?

I only tried one cause at the time I didn't want to drop a ton of cash.

 

[Veloci_Wrench]

Were the rings lapped? That is concerning if it crushed the tube.

The Burris veracity I have and my friend has one as well both seem to be nice. I haven't looked but is the fulfield one of their lower end ones?

I only tried one cause at the time I didn't want to drop a ton of cash.

No, the rings were never lapped. I used Talley MSR rings mounted to a semi-integral picatinny rail, so found no need to lap them. It’s possible the rings are bad.

Yes, Fullfield E1 is more of a budget scope, but is the Fullfield in the lineup.

After acquiring two SWFA models, I’ll probably never go back to budget optics for a gun that will be filling my freezer. Though, one could argue that SWFA scopes are very affordable given their specs and quality.

 

[OKHunter84]

No, the rings were never lapped. I used Talley MSR rings mounted to a semi-integral picatinny rail, so found no need to lap them. It’s possible the rings are bad.

Yes, Fullfield E1 is more of a budget scope, but is the Fullfield in the lineup.

After acquiring two SWFA models, I’ll probably never go back to budget optics for a gun that will be filling my freezer. Though, one could argue that SWFA scopes are very affordable given their specs and quality.

Yeah I have a 3-15 SWFA that I picked up on black Friday a few years ago. Not a bad scope at all, especially for the money. Fairly easy to rig up the zero stop on them.