Winter Kill/ Changing Plans

[Mykolaivka887]

And yet, there is always troglodytes arguing against it's utility....

Haven't heard or read that cave-dwelling Neanderthal reference in a while. Perfect context, too. Excellent!

 

[FlareBlitz91]

Guessing*, Guessed*....

But, I read the applicable peer reviewed literature, which was not explicitly followed by our govt.

Nah bro you gotta listen to this YouTube video that DEBUNKS all that. Reading is fake and gay.

 

[WRO]

Well, it recovered game animal populations from extinction track to the populations we have today. It's shown us the importance of habitat fragmentation and migration routes for elk, mule deer, antelope etc.

The problem is people blame biologists for sociological problems. If you've ever participated in season setting, big game commission meetings, legislative meetings etc, you would know that the arguments are based on money, opportunities, what groups get what instead of what's in the best interest of the resource. If we didn't have scientists and stewards for the resource we would have no wildlife left.

And honestly, all science gets shit on, not just wildlife science. Very few people sit back and realize that the scientific process has produced the life they live today. Plumbers, electricians, builders, cars, shipping routes, drugs, medicine, workouts, literally every single good thing has been produced by trained scientists. Sure, a tiny fractional percentage were brilliant enough to do it without formal education, but the teaching of scientific method and statistical inference in universities is critical to everything, including wildlife management. And yet, there is always troglodytes arguing against it's utility....

I wouldn’t argue some of those with you, the science that brought big game populations back is mostly gone.

The science we have now vs the science had are two different schools of thought imho.

We have a pile of bullshit studies that have negatively affected outdoorsmen that were enacted based on a hypothesis that have been a complete failure in reality. It’s agenda based nonsense.

I’m not throwing the baby out with the bath water, but there’s a growing dissent between on the ground results and scientific studies.

 

[FlareBlitz91]

I wouldn’t argue some of those with you, the science that brought big game populations back is mostly gone.

The science we have now vs the science had are two different schools of thought imho.

We have a pile of bullshit studies that have negatively affected outdoorsmen that were enacted based on a hypothesis that have been a complete failure in reality. It’s agenda based nonsense.

I’m not throwing the baby out with the bath water, but there’s a growing dissent between on the ground results and scientific studies.

I’m a biologist and have no idea what the hell you’re talking about? Can you link to some of these “agenda based studies?”

People don’t choose to study fish, wildlife, habitat etc. on a lark. The people conducting these studies generally care about the resource.

 

[WRO]

I’m a biologist and have no idea what the hell you’re talking about? Can you link to some of these “agenda based studies?”

People don’t choose to study fish, wildlife, habitat etc. on a lark. The people conducting these studies generally care about the resource.

Kostow hatchery interbreeding study which hasn’t worked, but neutered every salmon and steelhead hatchery on the west coast directly diminishing opportunities.

We have studies showing that lead bullet fragments lead to all sorts of child hood illnesses, yet when you look at the blood tests from Inuit children, which a large part of their diet comes from animals killed by lead bullets, they’re lead levels are less than the average American child.

There’s many more if you’re willing to look.

Some people are passionate and great at their jobs, I work with several field bios that know their stuff. Most of them to a T will complain about the biologists that set the policies.

Anyways I’ll call everyone I’ve spoken to that’s observed excess dead elk in winter hammered areas and tell them they’re full of shit because there’s no collar studies (even in areas that they don’t do collar studies) because some guy on the internet said so.

 

[S.Clancy]

I wouldn’t argue some of those with you, the science that brought big game populations back is mostly gone.

The science we have now vs the science had are two different schools of thought imho.

We have a pile of bullshit studies that have negatively affected outdoorsmen that were enacted based on a hypothesis that have been a complete failure in reality. It’s agenda based nonsense.

I’m not throwing the baby out with the bath water, but there’s a growing dissent between on the ground results and scientific studies.

I think you are confusing the "application" of science by political entities with true scientific studies. Politicians/whoever cherry pick science to fit agendas, I am speaking to the consensus of the literature. Think the "bacon is as bad as cigarettes", that is cherry picked science that ignores methodological flaws. You (and I) likely agree that people using incomplete or cherry picked science to push agendas is bad, because it is.

And I'm not saying that anecdotal evidence is useless, we just need to treat it for what it is; observational, potentially biased.

 

[WRO]

I think you are confusing the "application" of science by political entities with true scientific studies. Politicians/whoever cherry pick science to fit agendas, I am speaking to the consensus of the literature. Think the "bacon is as bad as cigarettes", that is cherry picked science that ignores methodological flaws. You (and I) likely agree that people using incomplete or cherry picked science to push agendas is bad, because it is.

That’s 95% of what we have anymore it seems.

Peer reviewed used to mean something. Now with the latest scandals about peer review it’s lost allot of its credence.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[S.Clancy]

That’s 95% of what we have anymore it seems.

Unfortunately, I believe you are in the ballpark with that statement.

 

[Deano0686]

Can anyone advise if the far eastern side of Wyoming got hit as bad with winter kill? I’ve never went antelope hunting and I’m nervous that if I don’t go this year I’m gonna have to wait another 3 or 4 years to have a decent hunt seeing how apparently 90-100 percent of the fawns died according to the stuff I’ve read.

 

[FlareBlitz91]

Can anyone advise if the far eastern side of Wyoming got hit as bad with winter kill? I’ve never went antelope hunting and I’m nervous that if I don’t go this year I’m gonna have to wait another 3 or 4 years to have a decent hunt seeing how apparently 90-100 percent of the fawns died according to the stuff I’ve read.

You can look at the units they amended the tag allocations for, some of them they made aggressive cuts.

 

[Deano0686]

You can look at the units they amended the tag allocations for, some of them they made aggressive cuts.

Got it. Thanks.

 

[Deano0686]

You can look at the units they amended the tag allocations for, some of them they made aggressive cuts.

Do you happen to have the link where it specifically shows the changes? I can’t seem to find it on the game and fish website

 

[Donk]

Yes I pulled my Wyoming app. It’s a long story. I was given the choice to go on a long work related trip this fall which would afford me a bunch of leave next September, or possibly get stuck with a shorter trip next September. With the winter kill and changing allocations I took the trip this year.

 

[FlareBlitz91]

Do you happen to have the link where it specifically shows the changes? I can’t seem to find it on the game and fish website

https://wgfd.wyo.gov/WGFD/media/content/PDF/Get%20Involved/2023%20April%20Regulations/CH-5-Draft-04-07-2023-5.pdf

Sorry i did t see this earlier

 

[Minute_of_Antelope]

I think you guys should all definitely cancel your plans. I’ll go scout it out for you guys Sept-Nov and I’ll report back.