Wind, caliber, bullet weight, and ballistic coefficient

PLhunter

WKR
Joined
Nov 14, 2018
Messages
700
Location
OR
I had a shoot last spring that got me thinking. After mulling it over I think that ballistic coefficiency is weighted too heavily in ballistic apps and by hunters when selecting a bullet for windy work.

The example was from shooting multiple rifles and bullets in an extremely windy day. Wind force 6-7. I ended up shooting a fairly large sample size out of each rifle too. When BC’s are calculated they of course take into account the sectional density of the projectile. However, the force vector from wind has a different functional sectional density in that path of travel. The cross sectional density matters more and a larger diameter projectile will have greater cross sectional density. Basically a larger caliber even if a shorter bullet has a higher sectional density in that vector (sideways). Long bullets have greater surface area in that (sideways) vector as well. That’s not saying that those bullets can’t have less wind drift but the long sleek bullet isn’t really much sleeker in that direction of travel (from the side). Higher bc does create lower pressure wake to be acted on my wind.

My observations were that lower bc and lighter .224 bullets had less wind drift UNTIL the higher bc bullets caught up on velocity. Then the higher bc bullets had less wind drift. But it wasn’t the higher bc less wind drift for all ranges. For mine the lighter bullet had less wind drift until out past 550 yards and the higher bc bullet overtook it in wind drift very solidly at 700 yards. 69.5 hammer hbc at 2900 fps mz vs 75 eldm 2675 fps mz.

I was also shooting a 30-06 with 168 Barnes bullets with a modest bc of .47 g1 bc. Muzzle velocity was around 2780 fps. Which is around the same bc as the .224 75 eldm but with a much lower form factor. The 30-06 had about 1/5 the amount of wind drift at 500 yards as the 75 eldm in .224. More mass for the wind to move but possibly it’s more a function of cross sectional, sectional density than mass.

The .308 to .223 results weren’t surprising but the lighter .223 vs heavier higher bc was.

Basically, when determining wind drift performance when selecting a projectile I think taking into account the distance where one similar projectile vs the other reaches the same velocity is worth considering even if at the expense of bc. Kind of like how we are adopting bullets and cartridges based on impact velocity of a bullet to suitable range. Maybe add wind performance to that pre check too but consider what threshold bullet starts slower as an indicator of when that wind break even point is.

This could all be bs from a one off shooting experience. But I’ve been trying to figure out some interesting real world wind results for years. Where one bullet that SHOULD buck wind better doesn’t in back to back shooting. Who wants to finance a 1000 yard controlled wind tunnel?
 
I can't say why it happens but a heavier bullet from a bigger caliber seems to move less in the wind even if the smaller bullet has a higher bc (up to a point). On paper it doesn't show that but in the real world it happens.
 
I can't say why it happens but a heavier bullet from a bigger caliber seems to move less in the wind even if the smaller bullet has a higher bc (up to a point). On paper it doesn't show that but in the real world it happens.
It would require an accurate volume measurement and an accurate cross sectional density measurement/calc of a non uniform object but the sideways “BC” of a bullet could be calculated as its own BC and would be most useful. My guess is the relative cross sectional, sectional density is more predictive than simply mass and caliber. The sideways cross sectional density across the whole bullet is just a lot harder to calculate as bullet length and shape matter whereas frontal sectional density has a fixed to caliber diameter.
 
I had a shoot last spring that got me thinking. After mulling it over I think that ballistic coefficiency is weighted too heavily in ballistic apps and by hunters when selecting a bullet for windy work.

The example was from shooting multiple rifles and bullets in an extremely windy day. Wind force 6-7. I ended up shooting a fairly large sample size out of each rifle too. When BC’s are calculated they of course take into account the sectional density of the projectile. However, the force vector from wind has a different functional sectional density in that path of travel. The cross sectional density matters more and a larger diameter projectile will have greater cross sectional density. Basically a larger caliber even if a shorter bullet has a higher sectional density in that vector (sideways). Long bullets have greater surface area in that (sideways) vector as well. That’s not saying that those bullets can’t have less wind drift but the long sleek bullet isn’t really much sleeker in that direction of travel (from the side). Higher bc does create lower pressure wake to be acted on my wind.

My observations were that lower bc and lighter .224 bullets had less wind drift UNTIL the higher bc bullets caught up on velocity. Then the higher bc bullets had less wind drift. But it wasn’t the higher bc less wind drift for all ranges. For mine the lighter bullet had less wind drift until out past 550 yards and the higher bc bullet overtook it in wind drift very solidly at 700 yards. 69.5 hammer hbc at 2900 fps mz vs 75 eldm 2675 fps mz.

I was also shooting a 30-06 with 168 Barnes bullets with a modest bc of .47 g1 bc. Muzzle velocity was around 2780 fps. Which is around the same bc as the .224 75 eldm but with a much lower form factor. The 30-06 had about 1/5 the amount of wind drift at 500 yards as the 75 eldm in .224. More mass for the wind to move but possibly it’s more a function of cross sectional, sectional density than mass.

The .308 to .223 results weren’t surprising but the lighter .223 vs heavier higher bc was.

Basically, when determining wind drift performance when selecting a projectile I think taking into account the distance where one similar projectile vs the other reaches the same velocity is worth considering even if at the expense of bc. Kind of like how we are adopting bullets and cartridges based on impact velocity of a bullet to suitable range. Maybe add wind performance to that pre check too but consider what threshold bullet starts slower as an indicator of when that wind break even point is.

This could all be bs from a one off shooting experience. But I’ve been trying to figure out some interesting real world wind results for years. Where one bullet that SHOULD buck wind better doesn’t in back to back shooting. Who wants to finance a 1000 yard controlled wind tunnel?

While having the highest BC is worried about more than it deserves, I do not know why you saw what you did, or concluded what you did from what you saw, however that does not show up in real life. What you are stating is wildly not what happens.

Somewhere more than 9,000 rounds last week from 55gr .224 to 180gr 7mm and 200gr 30cal: all bullets drifted in accordance to their BC and MV.
 
I can't say why it happens but a heavier bullet from a bigger caliber seems to move less in the wind even if the smaller bullet has a higher bc (up to a point). On paper it doesn't show that but in the real world it happens.

Where does it happen? At S2H classes alone there is 50,000+/- rounds being fired in broken terrain and moderate to severe winds (10 to 60+mph) each year, from 50gr .224 to large 30cal and 338’s shot side by side.

What you wrote is not seen. All of them drift as predicted based on BC, MV, and environment.
 
It would require an accurate volume measurement and an accurate cross sectional density measurement/calc of a non uniform object but the sideways “BC” of a bullet could be calculated as its own BC and would be most useful. My guess is the relative cross sectional, sectional density is more predictive than simply mass and caliber. The sideways cross sectional density across the whole bullet is just a lot harder to calculate as bullet length and shape matter whereas frontal sectional density has a fixed to caliber diameter.
You own a TI 30XS graphing Calculator, don’t you…
 
Must've been shooting on a magic mountain or something.

I've shot about 1,000 rounds worth of matches with a .30-06 shooting 180 gr soft points with a .385 G1BC at 2800 fps and I can fully assure you I had to hold way more wind than the guys shooting .6 g1bc 147 gr 6.5's at 2450 fps.
 
While having the highest BC is worried about more than it deserves, I do not know why you saw what you did, or concluded what you did from what you saw, however that does not show up in real life. What you are stating is wildly not what happens.

Somewhere more than 9,000 rounds last week from 55gr .224 to 180gr 7mm and 200gr 30cal: all bullets drifted in accordance to their BC and MV.
The difference between .224 was small enough that bits of changes in wind conditions etc could account for it. But the difference between the .308 and .224 were profound. Granted the .308 caliber had a bit more muzzle velocity but the wind drift difference was very repeatable. The 168 Barnes had significantly less drift than the 75 eldm. Edge of 12 inch plate vs 36+ inches for hits. Advertised BC’s are pretty close. Shots were taken very close in time and condition from one another. I do not have a level on either of those particular rifles so maybe that had an effect.

My observations have generally matched with recreational shooting back to back at long distance rocks etc.. that bc doesn’t seem to always predict relative performance in wind IRL. Obviously not as controlled conditions as I’d like and you have a near infinite sample size with s2h so perfectly valid and as always correct.

But I can definitely at least conceptualize aerodynamic differences in different force vectors making a difference. What’s sleek one direction can be a sail the other. BC takes sectional density into account for the calculation and the bullet is being acted on in a different vector than the one used for that calculation. But the real cross section being acted on is its drag area so bc may still be the only and best predictor. How many of those different caliber bullets shot share a bc or even somewhat close to the same bc and mv for a fair comparison? Im sure no one was shooting a 7mm or 30 cal bullet with the same bc as a 55 grain .224.

How often are we shooting bullets of the same bc, muzzle velocity, and conditions to get a good control? Be interesting to take it to the extreme and find a 30 cal with the same bc as a .224 and match mv. Same BC and same muzzle velocity and put down 50 shots in as near identical strong wind conditions across various ranges with caliber diameter being the only difference and actually measure. I’m sure you’re correct but I’ve seen it done on paper plenty but never in real world conditions.

Wind is just tough one day to the next because you may think you’re seeing the sameish drift that makes sense to preconceived drift notions but you can rationalize the differences as different wind down range or some other variable. If it doesn’t match what is expected just change the wind at some point down range to account.
 
Must've been shooting on a magic mountain or something.

I've shot about 1,000 rounds worth of matches with a .30-06 shooting 180 gr soft points with a .385 G1BC at 2800 fps and I can fully assure you I had to hold way more wind than the guys shooting .6 g1bc 147 gr 6.5's at 2450 fps.
I think there is definitely a point where bc matters more than cross section. Delta between flight in a vacuum vs air. But I think that it still doesn’t mean that all else being equal cross sectional density doesn’t matter. Now if you were shooting a .6 bc .30 cal at 2450 and compared to a 6.5 of the same bc and mv would drift be equal? Mine was very similar bc and similar mv with the difference being caliber diameter. I can’t speak to wildly different BC’s and mv because that’s not what I was observing.
 
Ground effect possibly?

Fast bullets shot at close-mid range didn’t have a high enough max ordinance to get out of the boundary layer, and were in effect “protected” from the full value wind?

Once you had a range where the dialed elevation put the max ordinance above the boundary layer, you saw the BC be fully affected by the wind?

Not saying this is the answer, but it could give the results you saw.
 
You own a TI 30XS graphing Calculator, don’t you…
😂 My calculus is horribly rusty. I remember enough to roughly know how much work a shape or something would require and have forgotten enough to not even want to try it. I have my TI 93 somewhere collecting dust.
 
Now if you were shooting a .6 bc .30 cal at 2450 and compared to a 6.5 of the same bc and mv would drift be equal?

Yeah of course they would that's just math. A .6 is a .6 regardless of diameter, they would just be a different shape. The BC is a number designated to use for calculating drag. It takes diameter and shape into account to even get to that number.

If it weren't the same it would have to defy the laws of physics.
 
Back
Top