Wind Breakers & Ultra Breathable Raingear

[PathFinder]

There's been quite a bit of interest lately in the backpacking community and here on Rokslide in Alpha Direct type insulation layers combined with windbreakers. It took a while for me to listen but the weight savings finally caught my attention. Transitioning to an Alpha Direct 120 fleece layer and windbreaker should cut about 6 oz out of my pack while providing more adaptability for high exertion in the cold and for windy conditions. The new system would also take up about 1/4 of the volume of a typical fleece.
I'm hoping to get some input from others on windbreakers others have used with similar setups. There is also a class of extremely breathable rain jacket that may be able to fill both the role of a rain layer and windbreaker. In reasonable western hunting conditions, that could cut an additional 12+ ounces. If anyone has experience with those it would be very welcome here as well. This thread will be used to compile user experience about both types.

Windbreakers;

• Patagonia Houdini
• Kifaru Windriver
• Zpacks
• EE Copperfield
• Various others to be added

Highly Breathable Raingear:

• Zpacks
• EE Visp

 

[fngTony]

Houdini is pretty good for what a wind shell should be. It does lean towards weather resistance vs breathing but I think that is more ideal for hunting as we aren’t active for as long of a period of time as a runner would be. It’s not quite and doesn’t stretch which are my only complaints. Durability is better than expected for what it is.

Took it out a few times with an alpha 90 over an OR sun hoodie (nearly identical fabric to the Sitka core lwh). Well the alpha hoodie got sold, maybe the heavier 120 would have met my expectations. Cool to cold conditions of 25-45 with some wind gusting 20mph. I never got warm enough after a mix of jogging and speed walking for two miles. Now running the entire time might have done it but that’s not an exertion level I do while hunting.

The alpha direct material doesn’t stretch and the cuts aren’t ideal for layering. Also I didn’t find it any warmer than a standard fleece, just half the weight. I found my current midlayer (OR Deviator hoodie) to do everything better except for the weight. I do like having the Houdini for specific applications. For hunting and saving weight I would recommend the Kuiu peloton 97 over an alpha direct hoodie with only a 1.5oz weight penalty.

Edit to add, I read that the EE visp is on its last run, material no longer available. Maybe they will find an alternative.

 

[fngTony]

To answer your question on an ultra breathable rain jacket to double as a wind breaker, no. I haven’t found one that I thought would withstand the friction from a hunting pack. The new SG X1 jacket might be that but I’ll wait for a while to see what people put it through. It’s certainly light and packable enough.

I would risk rubbing through my Houdini jacket as it’s relatively cheap and wouldn’t be my only shell.

 

[Maverick1]

Maybe consider adding the First Spear Wind Cheater or the HPG Wind Cheater. Do not own one but have read they are highly regarded.

 

[n816kc]

good info from @mtwarden

in praise of the windshirt

if you do a search of "windshirt" on this site- I guarantee you my name will pop up dozens of times- I'm a huge fan of windshirts and without a shadow of a doubt they are my most used piece of clothing as the name would imply- they do block wind, but unlike a hardshell (rain jacket) that also...

bushcraftusa.com

 

[Poser]

My preferred windbreaker is the Black Diamond Alpine Start which is a shoeller fabric. The versatility on these is pretty astounding. I use one all summer in the high country, crisp morning when turley hunting, always have one when hunting in the Fall, also serves as my shell 90% of the time when backcountry skiing and perfect over a sun hoody for Spring skiing at the resort.

 

[mtwarden]

Big fan of the Alpine Start as well. It's heavier than the Houdini, but for hunting I think that's a plus—more durable. The Houdini is pretty fragile, fine for hiking/backpacking trails, but off trail you'd have to be very, very careful.

 

[fngTony]

Big fan of the Alpine Start as well. It's heavier than the Houdini, but for hunting I think that's a plus—more durable. The Houdini is pretty fragile, fine for hiking/backpacking trails, but off trail you'd have to be very, very careful.

What’s your thoughts on the Alpine start vs Sitka flash? They look close on weight, the AS is full zip, the flash I’m guessing is more waterproof?

 

[mtwarden]

What’s your thoughts on the Alpine start vs Sitka flash? They look close on weight, the AS is full zip, the flash I’m guessing is more waterproof?

The Flash is more wind resistant and more waterproof, but less breathable.

When the forecast is for low chance of precip I'll bring my Flash as a rain jacket, but often pack the Alpine Start as well to wear on the move.

 

[woods89]

I've used a BD Alpine Start quite a bit over the last few years. If I'm hiking hard in fairly cold weather I wear it over an OR Echo and I'm good to go, unless it's really cold. Then I wear a Kuiu Peleton 97 under it as a baselayer. The Alpine Start is a fantastic windshirt, but it will wet out fairly quickly in any sort of rain.

I also have a OR Ascendant(90 gsm Alpha Direct with a nylon face, sadly discontinued) that I use along with it, but I need to be slowed down quite a bit to not overheat with that on. I'm a huge fan of that jacket, though.

 

[bmart2622]

Hey @mtwarden, does the X1 for SG fit in the discussions with others discussed here?

 

[mtwarden]

Hey @mtwarden, does the X1 for SG fit in the discussions with others discussed here?

It’s a 3 layer Pertex fabric that should provide good rain protection, but it’s not going to offer the same breathability as a wind shirt.

That said, there are probably hunting scenarios where you’re not doing much higher exertion stuff and a person might be able to get away with just a rain jacket. If that’s a likely scenario something like the X1 might fit the ticket.

It definitely fits the bill for a lightweight rain jacket though

 

[mtwarden]

A few words about rain jackets vs windshirts. Rain jackets typically have a hydrostatic head (measurement of a fabric's water resistance) of 10,000+; 20,000+ being more suitable. Windstopper has a HH of ~ 10,000 which technically puts it in the "waterproof" category, but close to the bottom. I've found Windstopper (that is if taped like all of Sitka's offerings) to be of suitable waterproofness for on and off rain conditions. I've found Windstoper to not be suitable for sustained rain. In the mountain west, it's often typical to have just brief showers (usually afternoon) and Windstopper is often enough.

Windshirts will have a much lower HH, the Alpine Start for example has a HH of ~ 500. So it will shed light precipitation (snow or rain), but not nearly as effective as a true rain jacket. That tradeoff however is that a typical windshirt will be much more breathable than rain jacket, important if moving, not important if stationary.

A rain jacket in addition to more water resistance, will typically have better wind resistance as well, but at the cost of breathability. In order of wind resistance rain jacket (20k+ hh)->windstopper->windshirt. In order of breathability windshirt->windstopper->rain jacket. I've found that Windstopper is more breathable than a rain jacket, but only fractionally. The difference isn't nearly as great as when comparing a typical windshirt.


As wind resistance and water resistance go up, typically you're going to see breathability go down and vice versa. The old adage of "having your cake and eating it too" certainly applies.

For my hunting purposes, I almost always bring a windshirt AND a rain jacket. The rain jacket I bring will vary on how much precipitation I expect.

 

[PathFinder]

To answer your question on an ultra breathable rain jacket to double as a wind breaker, no. I haven’t found one that I thought would withstand the friction from a hunting pack. The new SG X1 jacket might be that but I’ll wait for a while to see what people put it through. It’s certainly light and packable enough.

I would risk rubbing through my Houdini jacket as it’s relatively cheap and wouldn’t be my only shell.

I bought what appears to be the Beyond version of the same jacket on their outlet sale for $15. It says 3 layer Pertex. Will report back on how it does.

 

[Poser]

A few words about rain jackets vs windshirts. Rain jackets typically have a hydrostatic head (measurement of a fabric's water resistance) of 10,000+; 20,000+ being more suitable. Windstopper has a HH of ~ 10,000 which technically puts it in the "waterproof" category, but close to the bottom. I've found Windstopper (that is if taped like all of Sitka's offerings) to be of suitable waterproofness for on and off rain conditions. I've found Windstoper to not be suitable for sustained rain. In the mountain west, it's often typical to have just brief showers (usually afternoon) and Windstopper is often enough.

Windshirts will have a much lower HH, the Alpine Start for example has a HH of ~ 500. So it will shed light precipitation (snow or rain), but not nearly as effective as a true rain jacket. That tradeoff however is that a typical windshirt will be much more breathable than rain jacket, important if moving, not important if stationary.

A rain jacket in addition to more water resistance, will typically have better wind resistance as well, but at the cost of breathability. In order of wind resistance rain jacket (20k+ hh)->windstopper->windshirt. In order of breathability windshirt->windstopper->rain jacket. I've found that Windstopper is more breathable than a rain jacket, but only fractionally. The difference isn't nearly as great as when comparing a typical windshirt.


As wind resistance and water resistance go up, typically you're going to see breathability go down and vice versa. The old adage of "having your cake and eating it too" certainly applies.

For my hunting purposes, I almost always bring a windshirt AND a rain jacket. The rain jacket I bring will vary on how much precipitation I expect.

I typically bring both as well. I can't wear rain jackets in almost any condition unless its actually raining/snowing or its really cold and the wind is really blowing. I just find them too hot.

 

[mtwarden]

I typically bring both as well. I can't wear rain jackets in almost any condition unless its actually raining/snowing or its really cold and the wind is really blowing. I just find them too hot.

My experience as well; fine for stationary stuff, but if moving at all they can be hot—which is fine during heavy rain or snow, outside of that not so fine.