Wilderness First Responder Class

[Marbles]

CPR is one of the less valuable skills in wilderness medicine. Tourniquets only address a subset of life threatening traumatic injuries, and an even smaller subset of life or limb threatening emergencies that can occure and be successfully treated (which even in the case of tourniquets is just keeping someone alive long enough to get to definitive care and not doing more harm) in the back country.

 

[tuffcity]

I have to keep up a regular advanced wilderness FA certification or work purposes and while the components may differ between countries (I don't know the US standard) the biggest one with AWFA is prepping someone properly for transport and evac... as well as stabilizing (if possible) in case medevac is a day or 2 out or you have to transport- such as getting some one out by snow machine and skimmer.

Well worth doing the advanced, especially if you already have a good grasp of basic FA.

 

[GHOSTofWENDELL]

A WFR course will go into everything from Patient Assessment (scene safety, taking vitals, etc..) to Basic Life Support (CPR, OPA/NPA, etc...) to Traumatic Injuries (bleeding, shock, fractures, spine injuries, etc...) to Backcountry Medical Problems (Diabetic emergencies, allergies/anaphylaxis, respiratory & cardiac emergencies, etc...) to Environmental Medicine (dehydration, heat illnesses, hypothermia, frostbite, altitude illnesses, bites & stings, lightning injuries, etc...) to Micromedics (dental, eye, ear, skin, sun-related problems, etc...). Very little of this will require daily practice if you learn it right the first go around, and it will come into play in way more situations outside of the woods than in for most people.

Telling people that CPR and a TQ is all they will need is pretty ignorant when there are more things than trauma that can kill you out there. I always encourage people to get as much medical training as they can, knowledge doesn't weigh anything in your pack and it may not be your own emergency that you have to dea

A WFR course will go into everything from Patient Assessment (scene safety, taking vitals, etc..) to Basic Life Support (CPR, OPA/NPA, etc...) to Traumatic Injuries (bleeding, shock, fractures, spine injuries, etc...) to Backcountry Medical Problems (Diabetic emergencies, allergies/anaphylaxis, respiratory & cardiac emergencies, etc...) to Environmental Medicine (dehydration, heat illnesses, hypothermia, frostbite, altitude illnesses, bites & stings, lightning injuries, etc...) to Micromedics (dental, eye, ear, skin, sun-related problems, etc...). Very little of this will require daily practice if you learn it right the first go around, and it will come into play in way more situations outside of the woods than in for most people.

Telling people that CPR and a TQ is all they will need is pretty ignorant when there are more things than trauma that can kill you out there. I always encourage people to get as much medical training as they can, knowledge doesn't weigh anything in your pack and it may not be your own emergency that you have to deal with.

I work with medics/FFs that get rusty on medical runs we don't see often. We train constantly a do a couple years of certs. So IMO a couple day class you don't practice often will be of little use.

As I said if he had the time/means then knock your socks off. Knowing your medical emergency ABCs is infinitely more practical and has a significantly higher chance of happening.

The only thing ignorant is thinking you learn something once(in a controlled classroom setting, and not train) you'll be good to nail it IRL.

 

[WTFJohn]

I work with medics/FFs that get rusty on medical runs we don't see often. We train constantly a do a couple years of certs. So IMO a couple day class you don't practice often will be of little use.

As I said if he had the time/means then knock your socks off. Knowing your medical emergency ABCs is infinitely more practical and has a significantly higher chance of happening.

The only thing ignorant is thinking you learn something once(in a controlled classroom setting, and not train) you'll be good to nail it IRL.

EMTs and Paramedics have much larger scopes of practice than someone with a WFR cert from an 80 hour course, that doesn't surprise me. A WFR isn't going to be doing anything very advanced exactly because they aren't definitive care, they are going to triage and pass along the patient to higher levels of care if needed. It's the knowledge of when to take it to that next level, and make the call quick enough to matter so that they can get to a paramedic/helo/hospital.

You're advocating less knowledge because people forget things. That's ignorant. Maintaining proficiency is always up to the end user, no matter the undertaking. If I needed help, I'd rather have a WFR that had forgotten half the shit they learned but knew a red flag when they saw one (and maybe could even help get SAR rolling, look for a landing site, etc...), vs Joe hiker with a CPR course and a TQ that says 'nah man you're good, just tough that shit out" and goes on with their day while I die of a ruptured appendix.

Less knowledge is never the answer.

 

[GHOSTofWENDELL]

EMTs and Paramedics have much larger scopes of practice than someone with a WFR cert from an 80 hour course, that doesn't surprise me. A WFR isn't going to be doing anything very advanced exactly because they aren't definitive care, they are going to triage and pass along the patient to higher levels of care if needed. It's the knowledge of when to take it to that next level, and make the call quick enough to matter so that they can get to a paramedic/helo/hospital.

You're advocating less knowledge because people forget things. That's ignorant. Maintaining proficiency is always up to the end user, no matter the undertaking. If I needed help, I'd rather have a WFR that had forgotten half the shit they learned but knew a red flag when they saw one (and maybe could even help get SAR rolling, look for a landing site, etc...), vs Joe hiker with a CPR course and a TQ that says 'nah man you're good, just tough that shit out" and goes on with their day while I die of a ruptured appendix.

Less knowledge is never the answer.

I'm not advocating less knowledge. I'm giving a realistic perspective from experience. Not looking to argue, my stance is the same. Those courses don't provide a ton of benefit to someone who won't use the information regularly.

You seem to be twisting what I said quite a bit, my wording could of been better when I said "about all you need". I should of said what you will be able to do in the moment realistically. I don't know why your so defensive over a wilderness course lol.

 

[Rob5589]

I would suggest this; take a look at various courses and decide what you can manage in the field. Also consider what is most commonly going to potentially happen. Then decide if a specific course is right for you.

 

[bisblue]

I got a WFR as a climbing guide. It's a really great course. People who think CPR is gonna have them covered are gonna have a rude awakening in the backcountry.
I've since worked years as a climbing ranger and done lots of climbing fall and non climbing SAR events. If nothing else having a decent understanding and a patient assessment cheat sheet will take you a long way. I currently have a laminated patient assessment cheat sheet in all my work packs (now a wilderness and trails ranger) as well as my personal pack and on my big med kit I pack with my llamas.

Some people thrive in stress, but most resort to their base knowledge, rather than excel... boosting that knowledge feels really worth it when you show up and someone is using a roll of toilet paper to hold someone's lacerated scalp on.

I took my first course from Wilderness Medicine of Utah https://wmutah.org/ and all the instructors were final year medical students. It was a great course and they were so stoked to be teaching others rather than the opposite. One instructor was in the air force researching tourniquet use, and had some amazing things to say.

 

[def90]

Take a "Stop The Bleed" Tactical Combat Casualty Care class, will be more useful for what you might encounter on a hunting trip.

 

[dlee56]

Sounds like its definitely worth it if you can afford it. High mountain hunting is more than a bleed risk its cliff fall, heat stroke, lightning, hypothermia, altitude sickness, head trauma, etc.

It would be good to have a better understanding of what symptoms mean what and most of all a knowledge of what we can handle ourselves and when it's time to hit the emergency beacon.

 

[Marbles]

Take a "Stop The Bleed" Tactical Combat Casualty Care class, will be more useful for what you might encounter on a hunting trip.

Stop the bleed is a good course, but hardly covers the majority of injuries seen while hunting.

The only decent data I could find in a cursory search. https://www.wemjournal.org/article/S1080-6032(07)70198-9/fulltext

Stop the bleed will not teach you that the person with a broken forearm should be walked out (even if that is 2 or 3 days), but the person with a deformed elbow (broken or dislocated) probably warrants a medevac. Just one example.

Sounds like its definitely worth it if you can afford it. High mountain hunting is more than a bleed risk its cliff fall, heat stroke, lightning, hypothermia, altitude sickness, head trauma, etc.

It would be good to have a better understanding of what symptoms mean what and most of all a knowledge of what we can handle ourselves and when it's time to hit the emergency beacon.

You nailed it before I could reply.

 

[Razz]

If you have interest, take the class. I took WFA eons ago, then upped to WFR. I added Stop The Bleed and Basic Life Support thru our SAR team. Will you ever use all they teach you, unless you are a backcountry ranger or first responder type, probably not. Will the things you learn come in handy, probably yes. As others have noted, even a cheat sheet like a patient assessment format is helpful. Or the confidence to keep your shit together if something happens is beneficial. Go for it! My WFR was through NOLS. The instructors were great, we spent little time sitting at tables and way more with hands on activities and scenarios. Keep your workbook handy afterwards, skim thru a chapter every now and then.

 

[bisblue]

If anyone is interested this is the cheat sheet I use. This came from a full time well funded SAR organization.

 

[mtnkid85]

I did a WFR with NOLS several years ago and I can't recommend it enough! I just did it for personal knowledge and feel like I got alot out of it.

Because of that course I got a compliment from the Dr. on my tidy bandage when I brought in a friend after a mixup with a bear.

 

[Dented]

I've since worked years as a climbing ranger and done lots of climbing fall and non climbing SAR events. If nothing else having a decent understanding and a patient assessment cheat sheet will take you a long way. I currently have a laminated patient assessment cheat sheet in all my work packs (now a wilderness and trails ranger) as well as my personal pack and....

Bis,
Could you post a pdf of your patient assessment chest sheet, or point to someplace to get a copy?

 

[Dented]

I took my kids to a NOLS WFA course. Within 3 months of completion they used thier knowledge on 3 people, including me. They did such a stellar job bandaging an axe wound on me that the trauma surgeon was impressed.

The point is, even the basic WFA course is a stellar starting point. And it was a helluva lot if fun.

Start with that and see if it covers your basic requirements, get some decent first aid gear together, and then take the WFR as a continuing education and extension of your knowledge base.

 

[bisblue]

Bis,
Could you post a pdf of your patient assessment chest sheet, or point to someplace to get a copy?

Patient Assessment 101 • CWS | Center For Wilderness Safety

Their are a couple of ground rules when it comes to first aid and emergency situations:

wildsafe.org

This is a good one, however I think you end up needing one that's tailored to the training you get