Why does anyone lease hunting land

[cuerro viejo]

Around here it’s means an opportunity for 365 days of hunting. No random public shooting, and stricter management decisions on non migratory deer and exotic herds based on Biologist carrying capacity recommendations, which also gives month long whitetail season.

You also get to mentor your kids in a more structured environment, no randoms.

like mentioned before every state is different, just as everyone’s motivations are different.

 

[bobinmi]

Like homes, boats, trucks, anything else......it's supply and demand.

And as for the ROI.....I know more than a couple of guys in GA who maybe shoot 1-2 does per year on a food plot, and they pay at least $1,500. They could use that money to go out west and shoot a cow elk and have 5X the meat, and actually experience something different, but what they are really paying for is 4 months of rent to a fraternity so they can tell Momma "I'm going hunting" this weekend, leave town, and sit in their trailer watching football while crushing 2 cases of Bush Light and a handle of Titos. If they slip out to hunt a couple of times while they are there, that's a bonus.

Sounds like we know the same people. Its canadian mist over tito's up here though.

 

[Rich M]

8 guys on 500 acres is a bit crowded. $1,200 x 8 = $9,600 for the lease. It is probably antler restricted and in an area with decent bucks - if you can squeeze out one of the travel route spots, you'll see a bunch of deer during the rut.

We had 3 guys on 500 acres, about $3,600. Also in Georgia. I'd see upwards of 30-50 deer per weekend hunting. Shot 5 last year. Then the lease holder let his kid loose and I was happy to see and shoot 2 on the last weekend.

Ponzi scheme?

Hunt public much?

 

[Austink47]

With the right guys a lease can be awesome. The one I was on basically paid a nice old mans property tax. We did a lot of work on the property to improve habitat, and to stay in compliance with the CRP. All of us were on the same page about what we killed, staying out of areas we set up as sanctuary, and general hunting practices. We were even able to get a few of the neighbors on board. In 3 years we saw major improvement and had a great place to hunt. I am guessing this is an anomaly, but it can be a good thing.

 

[.223Coyote]

We have a private spot for duck hunting, and some days we would probably kill more on some of the public ground, but being able to just show up, throw out some decoys, and drink coffee without fighting 10 other groups for the good spot only to have them shoot your swing ducks is priceless.

 

[Billy Goat]

Like homes, boats, trucks, anything else......it's supply and demand.

And as for the ROI.....I know more than a couple of guys in GA who maybe shoot 1-2 does per year on a food plot, and they pay at least $1,500. They could use that money to go out west and shoot a cow elk and have 5X the meat, and actually experience something different, but what they are really paying for is 4 months of rent to a fraternity so they can tell Momma "I'm going hunting" this weekend, leave town, and sit in their trailer watching football while crushing 2 cases of Bush Light and a handle of Titos. If they slip out to hunt a couple of times while they are there, that's a bonus.

I know a lot of guys who would be fighting to the top of the line to go kill a cow elk every year and it only cost $1500. It ain't that easy, not that I'm aware of. Definitely places you can be guaranteed a cow essentially, but you need to know people or pay.

And while I enjoy it, I'd much rather spend 3k to have the opportunity to go hunt for months, time my trip with weather and everything else than to spend the same or less for a week that I have no control over.

Just saying, it's a matter of perspective.



I'm also not apposed to just having a drinking camp to get away, but I ain't much on sports.

 

[Roofer1]

In some states (like my home state of WI) most of the areas with standards that let the age class go up are in areas with almost exclusively private property. That leaves someone with those goals to either try to buy or lease land in those areas. I recently purchased a small piece of land in one of the most expensive "deer hunting" areas of the state. Hopefully it will continue to appreciate but while I was running numbers I would have been WAY better off to take the cash and invest it. Even if my returns were modest I could've easily paid for a lease AND been able to take a trip out west every year with those returns. All that said, I like owning land. Guess that means leasing/buying/hunting public is all personal preference?

 

[Wags]

We have a private spot for duck hunting, and some days we would probably kill more on some of the public ground, but being able to just show up, throw out some decoys, and drink coffee without fighting 10 other groups for the good spot only to have them shoot your swing ducks is priceless.

Same here. I lease for Ducks and it's worth every penny. I don't have to deal with the rat race of public lands while I'm teaching my kids how to hunt. I can be more patient on shot selection because I don't have idiots setting up in my back pocket & It's an overall more comfortable and pleasurable experience for them at these ages. Not to mention when I was working nights I could get off work and into the blind in time to get a hunt in.

Big Game would be a totally different story.

 

[Molon Labe]

Ok I am trying to rationalize this. Just using numbers for leases around me. 500 acres will have 8 people each paying roughly 1,200. On that 500 acres there are probably 30 deer (estimate around me is 40 deer per 660 acres). If everyone kills( does or bucks) 1st couple of years, then your heard is practically gone...and the leases that join up to your lease is doing the same, there are no future for the herds. What am I missing, the hunting lease is the biggest Ponzi scheme ever...

The simple answer? Leasing is the cheapest way to hunt private ground.
Its not a Ponzi scheme and your premise is broken...I will explain.

Lets make it complicated and run through the numbers to validate.
I'm not going to mess with future value/current value of money or drop inflation into this.
This is just roughed out...

Lets take your 500 acres and make some general assumptions based on average rates in the state of Georgia.
$4,000/acre purchase cost. .87% tax rate. 3% appreciation rate. 4% mortgage interest rate.

So first off you would need a $400K down payment on the property to purchase...but lets pretend you have a magical bank that will loan you at 100%.

Your mortgage interest in a year will be $80,000/year...itemized deduction depends on your tax bracket but lets say $65K out of pocket a year.
Your property tax will be $17,400/year...itemized deduction again...roughly 14K out of pocket a year.

So you will be spending roughly $79K/year that is just gone.

But land appreciates you say! And i will sell it for a profit!

Lets say you hold the property for 10 years the estimated value will be $2.7million.
You sell for $2.7million less realtor fees of roughly 150k and cap gains taxes of 200K.

You net out a tidy profit of 350K. But also paid in $790K that went to the bank and taxes.

An average loss of $44K/year to have "your own land" that you can shoot a deer.

Or you can lease the land for 9600/year and shoot a deer.

OR you can say screw all this and eat a 18oz ribeye every night and wash it down with 3 fingers of 12yr old scotch and 4oz of 10yr aged cheddar....

And just so you know...every single one of us on this forum currently lease hunting land...from the federal government. The amount you pay for your lease depends solely on the amount of hunting crap you buy and the tags/licenses in your pocket. And this might just hit the definition of ponzi scheme you were looking for...

 

[Wags]

The simple answer? Leasing is the cheapest way to hunt private ground.
Its not a Ponzi scheme and your premise is broken...I will explain.

Lets make it complicated and run through the numbers to validate.
I'm not going to mess with future value/current value of money or drop inflation into this.
This is just roughed out...

Lets take your 500 acres and make some general assumptions based on average rates in the state of Georgia.
$4,000/acre purchase cost. .87% tax rate. 3% appreciation rate. 4% mortgage interest rate.

So first off you would need a $400K down payment on the property to purchase...but lets pretend you have a magical bank that will loan you at 100%.

Your mortgage interest in a year will be $80,000/year...itemized deduction depends on your tax bracket but lets say $65K out of pocket a year.
Your property tax will be $17,400/year...itemized deduction again...roughly 14K out of pocket a year.

So you will be spending roughly $79K/year that is just gone.

But land appreciates you say! And i will sell it for a profit!

Lets say you hold the property for 10 years the estimated value will be $2.7million.
You sell for $2.7million less realtor fees of roughly 150k and cap gains taxes of 200K.

You net out a tidy profit of 350K. But also paid in $790K that went to the bank and taxes.

An average loss of $44K/year to have "your own land" that you can shoot a deer.

Or you can lease the land for 9600/year and shoot a deer.

OR you can say screw all this and eat a 18oz ribeye every night and wash it down with 3 fingers of 12yr old scotch and 4oz of 10yr aged cheddar....

And just so you know...every single one of us on this forum currently lease hunting land...from the federal government. The amount you pay for your lease depends solely on the amount of hunting crap you buy and the tags/licenses in your pocket. And this might just hit the definition of ponzi scheme you were looking for...

True… I own land in Wyoming and Colorado. They both cost me thousands every year just to have & that’s without maintenance. I recoup a little back from leasing it for grazing but it’s a drop in the bucket. Not to mention I still kill a majority of my animals on public lands every year.

 

[willidru]

A little different, but I lease a duck blind. Used to shoot the refuges all the time, not so much anymore. Club is more of a good time than a good shooter. But similarities come down to paying to not have hunting pressure or deal with people in general


Benefits - Always have a spot don’t have to sit sweatline and be at the refuge hours before shoot time. No fights in the water or someone screwing up your hunt walking through your decoy spread or having nothing of their own and backing up to your set up.

Biggest change for me was when I had kids it’s easy to take them to the blind. Have a year round trailer spot with hookups and they can shoot, ride atvs and have a place to enjoy with their cousins.

Negative - refuge holds birds more shooting and work for the dog, makes you a better hunter because it’s competitive and it’s more cost effective. Way more exciting when it’s on fire.

 

[Rokbar]

We used to lease land in Georgia for years. Stopped around 10 years ago. Wish I hadn't stopped. I was on a good club of 550 acres. Georgia allowed 2 bucks and 10 does. Never killed that many, but knew several that did. There was pretty much all the deer you wanted. Some years were better than others as far as numbers. I didn't lease so much for a place to hunt, but for the ease of not having to climb mountains all day for maybe a glimpse at a deer if that. Georgia equaled lots of deer, easy walking, better eating deer, but it came with a price. At the time I payed around $1000 before stepping in the woods. But I could also hunt turkey, hogs, and small game. Where I live we have plenty of game lands but few deer. I will not knock someone that leases land or leases out their land, it's a free country.
If the deer ever went extinct in Georgia so would the leased land. Most of the state of Georgia has prime whitetail habitat. The big timber (paper) companies used to own the majority of the southeast. They clearcut like no one else for pulp and timber. Little did they know they were creating some of the best whitetail hunting in the US. When the companies got rid of their holdings to private individual land owners, the price of a lease went up.

 

[SDHNTR]

Please let me know of a good lease that $1200 per man. I’d be VERY interested. Sounds like a bargain!

 

[sneaky]

Understand the reproduce, but between road kills, kills by leasers, kills by predators...it takes a toll if everyone kills each year.

When those deer are gone, other deer move in, it's not a hard concept. I've been on several leases, still have one in Ohio. It's small, but every year it's a parade of different deer that come through there looking for does. You're comparing 2000 acres of low fence deer to 2000 acres of high fence deer. Of course on a high fence operation you could theoretically kill all the deer off. You'd have a helluva time trying that on a big property in a lot of places back east. There's a reason middle Tennessee has a 3 does/ day limit.... and there's still plenty of deer running around.

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[sneaky]

How much per acre for the 1800, around here the going price is $20 per acre and seen some as high as $30. That would be 36k for the 1800 yiu have 4 guys, 9k each...nope I will be cheap and For that price I can go on a jam up hunt about anywhere each year.

Not everyone pays $20/ acre. We aren't paying anywhere near that for ours, and we consistently shoot 150"+ whitetails off it every year

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[dtrkyman]

Look at central Illinois if you want to "over pay" for a lease, the guys I managed ground for lease 580 acres for 100$ an acre right before I left, 2 guys paying that bill and they had a couple thousand more acres leased!

 

[cuerro viejo]

Not everyone pays $20/ acre. We aren't paying anywhere near that for ours, and we consistently shoot 150"+ whitetails off it every year

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Yelp, $20 an acre is more then a lot of STX ranches, and down there you are hunting 7-8 year old 160-170 gross with a few gaints mixed in. Also probably on MLD and you are hunting from oct to the end of Feb and sometimes March if you hadn’t filled all your required doe tags. Speaking of tags that STX lease probably comes with 8-10 doe tags (or more) and 3 buck tags per section (or more). Those are all biologist surveyed and biologist mandated tags based off carrying capacity and herd health

 

[Yarak]

I lease because public land hunting in Alabama is dangerous to say the least especially during turkey season
I grew up in the middle of what is now a WMA but before it was all I needed was a permit to hunt and ever saw anyone and now I hardly go there because it’s too crowded
If you figure 100 acres per person a lease can work out pretty well and managed the right way if you have a good group of guys

 

[colersu22]

In wa there are a bunch of timber companies that sell passes which I think is similar to a lease. I bought one for 2 years and it is a ton of land to hunt and I saw plenty of animals but it was only $250 and was good April to April.

Me and 2 buddies get a lease for deer and it is 400 acres and costs us 175 each and is well worth it. No one else can hunt it, we get a key to the gate to drive in and they even post it no access during hunting season so we don’t have e locals walking their dogs chasing deer.

 

[Patton]

500 acres for 8 hunters would be over hunted in all areas I can imagine and for it to maybe work would require everybody to be on a strict and agreed upon mgmt plan and be okay with not shooting something every year. Being able to manage for age class is one of the greatest perks of a well run lease; having too many guns and not enough rules is typically the greatest downfall.