Why are NR still applying in North Dakota for deer?

[MallardSX2]

With the odds being so terribly poor why are people even applying and building points here?
With the gratis deduction there is nothing left for the NR to even apply for.

1705 people applying for 2 NR mule deer buck tags last season? People have lost their damn minds and at this point its actually quite funny.

The even funnier/sad/ridiculous part is that they are still issued 18,000 doe tags in the state when their population is at a decades low number.

https://www.kxnet.com/north-dakota-news/ndgf-tough-season-deer-hunters/

Terrible management of a resource.

 

[robby denning]

Good question, I'd say because we've been conditioned to apply apply apply. Which for a long time was good advice, but many places it makes almost no sense.

A friend and I LOL this year when were talking about applying for some of NVs best units. All under 1%, even with 7 plus points, even going with outfitters.

Plenty of other places/weapons where guys can find way better odds than that.

 

[4cMuley]

With the odds being so terribly poor why are people even applying and building points here?
With the gratis deduction there is nothing left for the NR to even apply for.

1483 people applying for 2 NR mule deer buck tags last season? People have lost their damn minds and at this point its actually quite funny.

The even funnier/sad/ridiculous part is that they are still issued 18,000 doe tags in the state when their population is at a decades low number.

https://www.kxnet.com/north-dakota-news/ndgf-tough-season-deer-hunters/

Terrible management of a resource.

Probably people that grew up and hunted in ND but moved away. Hoping to maybe do it again no matter how small the chance is. Like myself

 

[MallardSX2]

After speaking with the Department about the current deer population, I gathered several thoughts listed below.

1. The new Governor is pushing a CRP program. The Governor is a hunter and he is sympathetic of the current situation for deer. Hopefully that program will take off soon.

2. They don't really know why or have a good answer for why they are still issuing 18,000 doe tags.

3. They don't even know how many deer they have in the state and there are no population trend tables available to the public. Their understanding of the deer population in the state is almost purely based on harvest survey data.

4. Expect the deer tags (or lack there of) to be the same or less than what is was last season. The deer population is not recovering.

5. (And most importantly) When asked what I can do as a NR hunter to help increase the deer population, they didn't know what to say. There was no mention of any specific program that we as NR hunters could donate to to be able to support the CRP program or other habitat restoration efforts. I would have thought that they could have at least hinted around to some form of foundation that provides them support in specific projects.

Mule Deer Foundation North Dakota | Bismarck ND

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[Weldor]

Is it that bad? The population.

 

[robby denning]

Good question, I'd say because we've been conditioned to apply apply apply. Which for a long time was good advice, but many places it makes almost no sense.

A friend and I LOL this year when were talking about applying for some of NVs best units. All under 1%, even going with outfitters.

Plenty of other places/weapons where guys can find way better odds than that.

After speaking with the Department about the current deer population, I gathered several thoughts listed below.

1. The new Governor is pushing a CRP program. The Governor is a hunter and he is sympathetic of the current situation for deer. Hopefully that program will take off soon.

2. They don't really know why or have a good answer for why they are still issuing 18,000 doe tags.

3. They don't even know how many deer they have in the state and there are no population trend tables available to the public. Their understanding of the deer population in the state is almost purely based on harvest survey data.

4. Expect the deer tags (or lack there of) to be the same or less than what is was last season. The deer population is not recovering.

5. (And most importantly) When asked what I can do as a NR hunter to help increase the deer population, they didn't know what to say. There was no mention of any specific program that we as NR hunters could donate to to be able to support the CRP program or other habitat restoration efforts. I would have thought that they could have at least hinted around to some form of foundation that provides them support in specific projects.

View attachment 1049767

Mule Deer Foundation North Dakota | Bismarck ND

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that's sad answers indeed.

thanks for posting the MDF. I see stuff in their mag about ND, just don't remember the specifics. I'll try & remember to look and post up.

 

[bigsky2]

I grew up in Eastern MT and used to be pretty envious of the mule deer hunting in ND. I bought points for a while and then finally realized the odds were against me and quit. I sure don't hear about or see pictures of big bucks coming out of western ND like I used to. When you consider how quickly pictures and word spreads with social media, I think that says a lot about how things have changed. I kick myself for not taking advantage of the OTC archery opportunities for NR back when that opportunity was available and the hunting was still really good over there.

 

[BBob]

Good question, I'd say because we've been conditioned to apply apply apply. Which for a long time was good advice, but many places it makes almost no sense.

Every year we have a high ish number of NR’s applying for desert sheep tags that they simply cannot draw (ineligible due to NR quotas) despite repeatedly being told by many sources to stop doing it.

 

[SuperDUECE22]

With the odds being so terribly poor why are people even applying and building points here?

Its Cheap, Giant Deer, Lots of public land in western side of the state

With the gratis deduction there is nothing left for the NR to even apply for.

Very True, I think the NR gratis shouldn't exist and they should be in the same lottery as the rest of us

1705 people applying for 2 NR mule deer buck tags last season? People have lost their damn minds and at this point its actually quite funny.

True but not completely accurate. There are some decent #'s of mule deer found outside of the well known units that fall under the ANY ANTLERED DEER. Access is tougher in these units but there are slightly better odds & a few more tags available.

The even funnier/sad/ridiculous part is that they are still issued 18,000 doe tags in the state when their population is at a decades low number.

so true, & i think because of the pressure they receive from residents that still want some sort of opportunity beings Rifle tags are still hard to draw for residents

Terrible management of a resource.

G&F did take way too long to start reducing tags after the horrible drought in 20/21 which was then followed up by some horrible winters

The new Governor is pushing a CRP program. The Governor is a hunter and he is sympathetic of the current situation for deer. Hopefully that program will take off soon.

While this would be huge for the whitetail population they are really going to need to increase $$ for farmers to take that marginal land out of production. There are just too many other subsidized programs right now that it doesn't financially make sense for them to enroll in CRP or the new Legacy Soil Health Program. I personally know farmers who want to enroll in CRP but they would loose money, they can make more through other insurances or programs.

Lifetime Member of MDF and have went to many MDF banquets in western ND back when i lived there. I also purchase a couple hundred dollars of MDF North dakota raffle tickets every year. Top prize is statewide MD tag (odds better than actual lottery) with proceeds going to PLOTs program

 

[SuperDUECE22]

I grew up in Eastern MT and used to be pretty envious of the mule deer hunting in ND. I bought points for a while and then finally realized the odds were against me and quit. I sure don't hear about or see pictures of big bucks coming out of western ND like I used to. When you consider how quickly pictures and word spreads with social media, I think that says a lot about how things have changed. I kick myself for not taking advantage of the OTC archery opportunities for NR back when that opportunity was available and the hunting was still really good over there.

Quality is still much better than eastern MT. Still have a lot of friends out there that send pictures every fall of deer harvested over 200. Not as abundant as they used to be as the age class has fallen off some since 2020 but plenty of big deer to be found

 

[Legend]

After speaking with the Department about the current deer population, I gathered several thoughts listed below.

1. The new Governor is pushing a CRP program. The Governor is a hunter and he is sympathetic of the current situation for deer. Hopefully that program will take off soon.

2. They don't really know why or have a good answer for why they are still issuing 18,000 doe tags.

3. They don't even know how many deer they have in the state and there are no population trend tables available to the public. Their understanding of the deer population in the state is almost purely based on harvest survey data.

4. Expect the deer tags (or lack there of) to be the same or less than what is was last season. The deer population is not recovering.

5. (And most importantly) When asked what I can do as a NR hunter to help increase the deer population, they didn't know what to say. There was no mention of any specific program that we as NR hunters could donate to to be able to support the CRP program or other habitat restoration efforts. I would have thought that they could have at least hinted around to some form of foundation that provides them support in specific projects.

View attachment 1049767

Mule Deer Foundation North Dakota | Bismarck ND

Mule Deer Foundation North Dakota, Bismarck. 4,329 likes · 10 talking about this. The Mule Deer Foundation is the only conservation organization dedicated to ensuring the conservation of Mule Deer,...

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CRP at the surface sounds like a great idea. Here is my experience. Under CRP landowners can pull a government check until they are old/dead. That means the next generation has no land to buy/lease to farm. This has in turn led to fewer individuals in the farming career. Which has played a large role in the death of small towns in Montana.

When small farmers are gone they are replaced with larger and larger corporate farms. So to bring this back to hunting. Do you think you will have a better chance at access with Bob the farmer or Goldman Sachs?

CRP has some pros but the cons are dangerous also.

 

[wind gypsy]

Every year we have a high ish number of NR’s applying for desert sheep tags that they simply cannot draw (ineligible due to NR quotas) despite repeatedly being told by many sources to stop doing it.

I put about 30 seconds into picking AZ sheep apps but do it anyway because it's basically free when you're applying for elk and deer already. Got any hot tips so i dont apply in the zones where there wont be a NR tag at all?

 

[wind gypsy]

CRP at the surface sounds like a great idea. Here is my experience. Under CRP landowners can pull a government check until they are old/dead. That means the next generation has no land to buy/lease to farm. This has in turn led to fewer individuals in the farming career. Which has played a large role in the death of small towns in Montana.

When small farmers are gone they are replaced with larger and larger corporate farms. So to bring this back to hunting. Do you think you will have a better chance at access with Bob the farmer or Goldman Sachs?

CRP has some pros but the cons are dangerous also.

I dont follow. A CRP agreement is usually 10 or 15 years.. The next generation can choose to farm it when the agreement expires if that's what they actually want.

 

[Legend]

I dont follow. A CRP agreement is usually 10 or 15 years.. The next generation can choose to farm it when the agreement expires if that's what they actually want.

Yep and then they are renewed. The government pays as much or more to not allow farming. So the land is not available for the next generation.

 

[wind gypsy]

Yep and then they are renewed. The government pays as much or more to not allow farming. So the land is not available for the next generation.

In most cases I'd venture to guess thats because it's shitty ground to farm in the first place, no? Got a handful of friends from college in ND that farm. Unproductive ground = CRP check, stuff worth farming typically gets farmed. Small sample size of those guys but one of them is a big operation.

I'm sure the economics are constantly changing based on crop/input prices and CRP contract values as well.

 

[Huntin Fool]

CRP at the surface sounds like a great idea. Here is my experience. Under CRP landowners can pull a government check until they are old/dead. That means the next generation has no land to buy/lease to farm. This has in turn led to fewer individuals in the farming career. Which has played a large role in the death of small towns in Montana.

When small farmers are gone they are replaced with larger and larger corporate farms. So to bring this back to hunting. Do you think you will have a better chance at access with Bob the farmer or Goldman Sachs?

CRP has some pros but the cons are dangerous also.

In ND circumstances it’s more about habitat than it is access, if we’re talking strictly deer numbers. As to the original comment, there are ND units that nr and outfitters have better odds at drawing a tag than non land owning residents and applying is basically free

 

[Maverick1]

1705 people applying for 2 NR mule deer buck tags last season

 

[Legend]

In most cases I'd venture to guess thats because it's shitty ground to farm in the first place, no? Got a handful of friends from college in ND that farm. Unproductive ground = CRP check, stuff worth farming typically gets farmed. Small sample size of those guys but one of them is a big operation.

I'm sure the economics are constantly changing based on crop/input prices and CRP contract values as well.

The original concept was to enroll poor land into CRP. The practice expanded and s9me dang good land was enrolled. Now economics have played a role and some land has been removed as it's farming value pulled it out.

I don't have a black and white opinion. I just want people to be aware that CRP does have some significant downsides. Happy to continue the conversation but I am tajing the thread off topic (people who struggle with math and NR tags in ND).

 

[MallardSX2]

Its Cheap, Giant Deer, Lots of public land in western side of the state

Very True, I think the NR gratis shouldn't exist and they should be in the same lottery as the rest of us

True but not completely accurate. There are some decent #'s of mule deer found outside of the well known units that fall under the ANY ANTLERED DEER. Access is tougher in these units but there are slightly better odds & a few more tags available.

so true, & i think because of the pressure they receive from residents that still want some sort of opportunity beings Rifle tags are still hard to draw for residents

G&F did take way too long to start reducing tags after the horrible drought in 20/21 which was then followed up by some horrible winters

While this would be huge for the whitetail population they are really going to need to increase $$ for farmers to take that marginal land out of production. There are just too many other subsidized programs right now that it doesn't financially make sense for them to enroll in CRP or the new Legacy Soil Health Program. I personally know farmers who want to enroll in CRP but they would loose money, they can make more through other insurances or programs.

Lifetime Member of MDF and have went to many MDF banquets in western ND back when i lived there. I also purchase a couple hundred dollars of MDF North dakota raffle tickets every year. Top prize is statewide MD tag (odds better than actual lottery) with proceeds going to PLOTs program

I agree and I appreciate your follow-up comments. I was wondering more about the CRP and how that impacted the farmers bottom line to go that route.

Thanks for taking the time to respond.

 

[MallardSX2]

Is it that bad? The population.

They are saying that deer numbers are still down across the state because of the 22/23 winter and EHD outbreak. Parts of the state had an 80% die off.

What I don't understand is why they are still issuing 18,000 doe tags.

Maybe the snarky math wizards can help me understand that.........