Who uses Mechanical Broadheads For Elk?

[roadrunner]

The biggest hurdle is the blade angle. More swept back designs fair better than more broad or "flatter" designs. Granted, there are tens of thousands of elk killed with them, but this is where the conversation is about mechanicals using up too much energy to open the blades. That is a false statment.

Mechanicals use very little energy to open, in fact, most have to be held closed by a retaining ring of some sort so the blades don't self deploy under a "free fall" scenario. The issue is the blunt force obstructuon with blade angles nearing the 90 deg mark instead of a swept back 30 deg or so design (similar profile to COC heads). Blade angle is the largest contributing factor, soaking up "energy" as it tries to slice past rib bones.

 

[TimberHunter]

The biggest hurdle is the blade angle. More swept back designs fair better than more broad or "flatter" designs. Granted, there are tens of thousands of elk killed with them, but this is where the conversation is about mechanicals using up too much energy to open the blades. That is a false statment.

Mechanicals use very little energy to open, in fact, most have to be held closed by a retaining ring of some sort so the blades don't self deploy under a "free fall" scenario. The issue is the blunt force obstructuon with blade angles nearing the 90 deg mark instead of a swept back 30 deg or so design (similar profile to COC heads). Blade angle is the largest contributing factor, soaking up "energy" as it tries to slice past rib bones.

Good point... so what are your thoughts on a broadhead like swhacker that only has to push the 1” blades through the ribs and then the 1.75” blades open up after the ribs insides the rib cavity?


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[Beendare]

....
Personally I’ll be having a 455 grain arrow going near 270 FPS and I’m considering using a grim reaper 1 3/8” razorcut or a head like sevr (new mechanical that came out last year) to minimize the chance for a deflection.

Bottom line.....you won't have an issue killing elk with that setup if you assemble your arrows perfectly.... BH tune your bow...and stay away from the shoulder....and you already know i'm a fixed head guy!

 

[roadrunner]

Good point... so what are your thoughts on a broadhead like swhacker that only has to push the 1” blades through the ribs and then the 1.75” blades open up after the ribs insides the rib cavity?


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Well, the design of the Swacker is such that the blades deploy only after they pass through the initial outer barrier of the hide. How much of the blade deploys in the wound channel before entering the chest cavity I'm not sure. If in the shoulder, there is more tissue. If behind, not as much and may actually fully deploy once inside the chest cavity.

For elk, my choice of mechanical is Rocket Steelheads. May not be swept back as much, but the blade profile is smaller making bone contact less of an issue relative to surface area of contact.

I agree with the above statement that at your speed and arrow weight, any well tuned arrow and broadhead will punch through an elk. But I too prefer a fixed low profile broadhead over mechanical for elk.

 

[TheCougar]

Give me a fixed blade that leaves blood trails and kills as fast as a mechanical, and I’ll switch. Yes, mechanicals are weaker and can have issues, but I’ve had a lot of success with them. All the data below shows a trend, in my mind. (The QAD is a fixed blade that I shoot when I can’t shoot a mechanical.)

#1: Rage Hypodermic in a bull that I, to this day, still don’t know how it hit it directly in the shoulder blade. Only got 4-6” of penetration, bull walked off. 420gr, 295fps. Not sure a fixed blade would have penetrated either, given my arrow weight on that hunt. A single bevel with a 500gr arrow may have gotten into the near side lung, but that is conjecture.

#2: Gravedigger hybrid into a 6x6. Hit ribs and broke half of a curved blade off, got enough penetration to kill within 15 seconds. Lots of blood and he dropped within 60 yards. Same specs as above.

#3: QAD exodus on a cow. Double lung pass through, she ran 300 yards and it took over an hour on hands and knees to follow the blood. We knew she was dead, and thought we lost her.

#4: QAD exodus on a cow. Lung and liver shot, entry only due to angle. Decent blood for only an entry hole. She took an hour and another arrow to die. It sucked and I felt dirty. No question that a mechanical on that same shot would have killed much faster.

#5: Rage Hypodermic into a bull. Pass through double lung, bull died within 100 yards. It was my buddy, and I don’t have his specs. Lots of blood again.

#6: Rage chisel two blade into a cow. Pass through, cow died within 30 yards. Lots of blood. 420/295fps.

#7: Rage chisel three blade into a yuuuge cow, nicknamed Ol’ LeatherBoobs. Hard quartering away, entered aft of ribs, hit heart and lodged in sternum. Insta-kill, medium blood, died within 100 yards. Don’t have specs, but I think my buddy is around 415gr/300fps.

#8: QAD exodus into an even older cow, named Ol’ LeatherVag. Pass through single lung and liver, decent blood, then stopped. Recovered her on a grid search. She only went 300 yards or so, but we got lucky. 482gr/278fps.

#9: First bull I ever shot: Muzzy 3 blade. Double lung pass through, 2/3 of the way up the lung. He never ran, just walked and bedded 70 yards away and took 10 minutes to die. Very little blood. The same shot with a mechanical would have killed him much faster.

I’ve just had crappy tracking experiences with fixed blades. Yes, they all killed the animal, but the blood trails were tough and the animals ran farther. If you do your part and don’t hit a shoulder, I think mechanicals are perfectly fine. If you hit something hard, they probably won’t put the animal down. Lately, I like hybrid heads a lot. They have some of the benefits of a fixed blade, mitigate some traditional mechanical weaknesses, and fly better than a pure fixed blade. Some guys will tell you to tune your bow so that fixed blades hit in the same place as your field points, but under pressure your form is seldom perfect and a mechanical is much more forgiving to adrenaline-induced shooting errors. That forgiveness, combined with the blood trails and massive damage they cause, lead me to favor a mechanical, even on a large critter like and elk. If I could find a fixed blade that left a large entry/exit wound and could mitigate the fact that I forget my form when shooting at elk, then yeah, I’d use that! I’m all ears if someone has a suggestion!



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[Backpack Hunter]

Current set up is 1.5" Grim Reaper Fatal Steel with a 420gr arrow going somewhere around 260ish. Have taken 3 with this setup. Previous setup was 1-3/8" Grim Reaper Razortips with a 400gr arrow shot out of the same bow so a touch faster than 260ish. Well in the double digits with this setup, would have to look at my notes to be exact.
Majority of the shots have been pass thru's, the ones that haven't all stopped in the offside shoulder. Never have lost one due to lack of penetration. Broadside aiming point is straight up the leg in the V.

 

[TimberHunter]

Well, the design of the Swacker is such that the blades deploy only after they pass through the initial outer barrier of the hide. How much of the blade deploys in the wound channel before entering the chest cavity I'm not sure. If in the shoulder, there is more tissue. If behind, not as much and may actually fully deploy once inside the chest cavity.

For elk, my choice of mechanical is Rocket Steelheads. May not be swept back as much, but the blade profile is smaller making bone contact less of an issue relative to surface area of contact.

I agree with the above statement that at your speed and arrow weight, any well tuned arrow and broadhead will punch through an elk. But I too prefer a fixed low profile broadhead over mechanical for elk.

Are the concerns with the potential for deflection valid concerns with the rocket steel head?


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[TheCougar]

Current set up is 1.5" Grim Reaper Fatal Steel with a 420gr arrow going somewhere around 260ish. Have taken 3 with this setup. Previous setup was 1-3/8" Grim Reaper Razortips with a 400gr arrow shot out of the same bow so a touch faster than 260ish. Well in the double digits with this setup, would have to look at my notes to be exact.
Majority of the shots have been pass thru's, the ones that haven't all stopped in the offside shoulder. Never have lost one due to lack of penetration. Broadside aiming point is straight up the leg in the V.

Have you ever hit any frontals or hard quartering to or away? I’ve never used an “over the top” and wondered if they might deflect on those hard quartering shots.


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[roadrunner]

Are the concerns with the potential for deflection valid concerns with the rocket steel head?


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Any broadhead has the potential to deflect based on the angle of the shot and whether or not the first contact is with hide and flesh or hide and rib. The chisel point is no different than other design such as Muzzy or Slick Trick. Could the folded blade prior to deployment be enough of an obstacle to cause deflection? Maybe. Again, depends on the shot angle. Almost facing away shouldn't be considered as a shot opportunity...

 

[Backpack Hunter]

Have you ever hit any frontals or hard quartering to or away? I’ve never used an “over the top” and wondered if they might deflect on those hard quartering shots.


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Frontals and hard quartering away have been no problem. Never tried more than slightly quartering to.

Esse quam videri

 

[TheCougar]

Frontals and hard quartering away have been no problem. Never tried more than slightly quartering to.

Esse quam videri

Thanks. I’ve heard good things about those grim reapers, but never tried them.


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[Kilboars]

What are your bow specs?


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484g 5mm Black Eagle Rampage arrows

 

[wapitibob]

you are just trying to make me tick off my buddies that like mech heads aren't you? /grin

You will never tick us off.

 

[OR Archer]

Anyone have experience with the G5 Deadmeat on elk? Considering this head due to its availability in Deep Six. Also considering the Grim Reaper Fatal Steels but the cut on those are only 1.25" so not much advantage over my fixed blade heads.

 

[Beendare]

You will never tick us off.

Well my friend...you are a perfect example of how a mech head can be very effective on a big critter. You are one heck of a good shot....AND you have the discipline not to take iffy shots.

.....but then you could probably screw any head on and be effective with that skill set.

...

 

[5MilesBack]

Also considering the Grim Reaper Fatal Steels but the cut on those are only 1.25" so not much advantage over my fixed blade heads.

The 125gr Fatal Steels is 1.5", but not sure if they make those in Deep 6.

 

[El Gavilan]

Two cows with the Ulmer Edge 100 gr. First was 50 yards broadside, shattered the near side humerus,cut the top of the heart and stuck in the offside joint. She went 70 yards. Second was at 59 yards broadside, centered the lungs and she went 60 yards, blood everywhere. Bow was a 70# Hoyt Matrix shooting 400 grain arrows at 298 FPS.


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[Beendare]

Any broadhead has the potential to deflect based on the angle of the shot and whether or not the first contact is with hide and flesh or hide and rib. ......

Agreed, ^ good observation.

i've seen this happen a few times on a hard quartering shot....where the arro doesn't follow a direct path but essentially wags its tail kicking out. I have one shot on video from a buddy testing a rear opening mech head, hard qtr away shot on a fallow deer and the back of the arrow kicked forward losing almost all of its penetration.
I've seen similar cases with other mech heads...in fact a buddy lost a nice 160 class buck this way....we didn't find out until a rifle hunter shot it the next week and my rancher buddy told us about the weird wound channel that appeared to make a 90 deg turn and out the bottom only clipping a lung.

i've seen the tail wag a couple times with the wide/short fixed heads- ST Mag too.

IME, i've never seen this tail wagging with a fixed tapered design true COC head 2 or 3 blade. I have no doubt any head will follow the path of least resistance...but this design tends to follow a more direct path in my observations.

Is that a factor worth considering? It is to me...but my other mech head buddies don't agree and prefer a bigger hole.


..
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[Billy Goat]

This is a conversation I try to avoid. Everyone likes something until they don't. I don't want to get into a pissing match here. I have never killed an elk with a fixed blade broadhead. Every elk has been with a spitfire bh. I have spent a lot of time bh tuning. No, I can promise you a mechanical will not fly with your field point. There are suttle differences that will show up. I tune through a shooting machine. I have my bow shooting most fixed blades and mechanical to field points at the same impact to 65 yards. Same impact to me is under 1.5" @ that distance. I shoot a light arrow. Sub 400. I have killed multiple elk at 60+ yards with complete pass through in the vitals, no bone. I don't think 250 more grains will make a difference on bone and it certainly won't help on the +- of 5 yards. I hunt with guys shooting way less poundage with mechanical and still kill elk. Biggest thing is hitting where you aim.

I'm not saying mechanical is perfect because it isn't. But I know of animals that were recovered because of big cutting diameter that otherwise would not have been retrieved. Shoot what you are tuned for. This means shooting a few broadhead for practice. Make sure your fp's fly with bh's or sight in with bh's.

Currently I'm shooting 72# bear Kuma with 411 grain arrow at 310 fps on a 29" draw. Previous bows have all been a Hoyt something(newest at the time) at sub 380 grain arrow. Never have I had a penetration issue. I just wanted to put this out there as another perspective to those guys reading this. In my experience, it's not the weight of the arrow, or the poundage, it's hitting the right spot.

 

[Zac]

I would imagine that someone would want to stay away from an over the top deploying head in general. I think these types of heads zap a lot more energy due to the jack knife opening system. I would imagine a rear deploying head would probably retain much more energy. I listened to a podcast from a guy, I believe the CEO of Feradyne. He said the Rage Hypodermic +P will actually out penetrate most fixed blades. He said he demonstrated this test for one of the states that just began to allow mech heads. Oregon I think, anyway John Dudley has a fairly impressive video of a +P that broke a humerus on an elk on the exit side. Aron Snyder has also had some incredible performance with mech heads on elk, however he was pulling 30 inches at 85lbs with a 580 gr arrow.