Who to go with for Grizzly & Dall combo?

[TalusHunterCA]

Do you recommend a combo for Grizzly (as defined by B&C) and Dall? I have a short list of outfitters in both Alaska and Canada that I've been researching- so I know it's something that they offer, but might be better to do two separate hunts? No guarantees in hunting; I am just trying to understand what I might be missing from below pros/cons? Again, I know that there are no guarantees, but I'd like to be in a place where this might work out and put the chances in my favor.

Pros: Combos are less expensive, flights same, and can use extra days if you tag out early on Grizzly to hunt Sheep.
Cons: Whenever you combo, you are likely not optimizing on trophy potential for each species, unless there is an area/outfitter that has awesome quality for both? Also, there might be pressure to shoot the first legal animal of either, and if looking for quality animals (age class and size) that pressure goes against looking for the larger animals and passing on some smaller legal ones.

If you do recommend a combo, which outfitters might you recommend? Please feel free to PM me if you would prefer.

 

[DoubleBroomedMountainRifles]

Aaron Bloomquist of Alaska Outfitters Unlimited or Joey Klutsch Jr both in the North Eastern portion of the Brooks Range. Both are on Federal Concessions. Which no matter who you hunt with should be an ABSOLUTE minimum requirement. Just so you know unless you hunt on a Federal Concession or with an Outfitter hunting limited draw tags any other outfittter in Alaska can sell an unlimited number sheep tags and there can be an UNLIMITED number of outfitters on that piece of land in Alaska.

One of the things the Canadians do right in their sheep hunts is similar to our states Federal Concession program which pushes their quiality up just as these Alaska Federal Concessions do as well. PM if you have questions about this little unknown rule in Alaska.

 

[Tanner]

I’ve guided a few sheep and grizzly Combination hunts in a 10 day stint, it’s a great mixed bag deal and there’s an extremely good chance of running into more than one bear on your way into sheep country.

also.... I wouldn’t get too caught up on the Federal Concession thing. Hundreds of big rams and big bears are killed every single season on regular old public Alaskan ground. You’re not going to see an outfitter or resident hunter behind every bush and rock.

 

[19hunt92]

I hunted sheep with Alaskan Hunting Adventures (Matt Snyder) and have zero complaints. They get big into grizzly hunting as well. On my dall hunt we saw 8 different bears, some closer than I felt comfortable with. check out adventures907 on here as he is the only other guide than Matt himself

 

[Aoudadshooter1975]

Jake Jefferson in Alaska...

 

[Dexter Grayson]

I’d personally go with Jonah Stewart. Great area and bonafide killer!

 

[Bambistew]

I would for sure do some research. Some areas up north have bears the size of big labradors... Something to consider. They just don't grow that big up north on average.

Some areas don't have a lot of bears in sheep country, some do... adding it on may just be pissing your money away. In one of the spots I sheep hunt, I've seen 1 bear in 7 years. The outfitter in the area killed it, and it was only the second bear they'd killed in sheep season in 20+ years. Other areas, I've seen as many as 3-5 in a day. That said you never know when you'll run into a bear. My wife and I ran into a sow and 2 cubs on glacier ice.

I would stick to the Western AK Range, Wrangells and Talkeetnas in Alaska for better (i.e. bigger) bear opportunity.

Good luck!

 

[Tanner]

There are some really good bears in the Chugach, unit 13 stuff too....

 

[4everOntheMtn]

I’ve guided a few sheep and grizzly Combination hunts in a 10 day stint, it’s a great mixed bag deal and there’s an extremely good chance of running into more than one bear on your way into sheep country.

also.... I wouldn’t get too caught up on the Federal Concession thing. Hundreds of big rams and big bears are killed every single season on regular old public Alaskan ground. You’re not going to see an outfitter or resident hunter behind every bush and rock.

Have you personally spent money on a guided hunt in Alaska or Canada or are you just a guide? I am assuming you are a guide in a non federal concession hunting state land in Alaska or in drawing areas limiting the number of hunters. To say this is not something to get caught up with is not being honest. It is a big deal! And most non residents don't know to ask these questions as I didn't.

The guides I talked with/ to (a lot) while researching for sheep hunts in Alaska completely gloss over this "soul use commercial" concession deal. Like its not a big deal. For me (and Im sure others) to know the truth behind the guiding laws in Alaska was a huge eye opener. When spending the amount of money for a sheep hunt I for one want ZERO other commercial operations in the area I am paying to be guided in. And when outfitters omit this fact prior to booking (lying) it brings their credibility to about zero.

Most DIY residents I've talked with (including DoubleBroomed) have strong feelings on federal concessions. That they wish the entire state of Alaska would get on board with it. Yes there are some areas that may not have the pressure and perhaps your area you guide in is this way. But just looking at the statistical numbers in GMU's 19 and 20 the commercial guiding inundates people into areas. And the statement DoubleBroomed said about an UNLIMITED NUMBER OF commercial guide can sell an unlimited numbers of sheep permits to non resident hunters is something every non resident hunter should be concerned with.

 

[Tanner]

I am a guide, and have guided a lot of hunts on non sole-use permit land. My reason for stating that it isn’t something I would get caught up in was stated: a ton of big bears and big sheep get killed on standard ol’ Alaskan ground every single season. My last season guiding in AK (2018) I guided 4 rams, 3 of which were 39.5” or better, and they were all in OTC areas with more than one outfitter permitted. I will also say that in 5 seasons guiding in Unit 19, I have only ever had one run-in with another guide/client. I’ve seen plenty of residents in the other area I guide in, and have still been able to guide clients to high quality rams.

I understand your reasons for advising to focus on sole use areas, but it’s not something that would steer me away from an outfitter that I liked and wanted to hunt with. Obviously, it is up to the person booking the hunt to determine their priorities before booking a hunt.

 

[idahohikker]

Have you personally spent money on a guided hunt in Alaska or Canada or are you just a guide? I am assuming you are a guide in a non federal concession hunting state land in Alaska or in drawing areas limiting the number of hunters. To say this is not something to get caught up with is not being honest. It is a big deal! And most non residents don't know to ask these questions as I didn't.

The guides I talked with/ to (a lot) while researching for sheep hunts in Alaska completely gloss over this "soul use commercial" concession deal. Like its not a big deal. For me (and Im sure others) to know the truth behind the guiding laws in Alaska was a huge eye opener. When spending the amount of money for a sheep hunt I for one want ZERO other commercial operations in the area I am paying to be guided in. And when outfitters omit this fact prior to booking (lying) it brings their credibility to about zero.

Most DIY residents I've talked with (including DoubleBroomed) have strong feelings on federal concessions. That they wish the entire state of Alaska would get on board with it. Yes there are some areas that may not have the pressure and perhaps your area you guide in is this way. But just looking at the statistical numbers in GMU's 19 and 20 the commercial guiding inundates people into areas. And the statement DoubleBroomed said about an UNLIMITED NUMBER OF commercial guide can sell an unlimited numbers of sheep permits to non resident hunters is something every non resident hunter should be concerned with.

Yeah all of the hunts I’ve read about and watched are just looks packed. Haha

 

[Dexter Grayson]

I definitely wouldn’t pay extra to hunt with a guide that had a concession.

 

[DoubleBroomedMountainRifles]

I definitely wouldn’t pay extra to hunt with a guide that had a concession.

There are plenty of sheep hunters that would. If you are going to hunt Canada for Dalls or Stones with an outfitter you don’t have an option. That is one of the main reasons the Canadian Outfitters are doing so well because of their structured Concessions.

The Alaskans that do have Federal Concessions are normally $2500 on avg more than non Concessions. They are also normally booked out two years plus.

But to each their own I guess. If you don’t mind having the potential problems of multiple commercial operations trying for the same limited resources good on you for saving that extra cost.

Buy nice or buy twice.

 

[Tanner]

Or just go with a reputable outfitter and hunt hard, and worry less about concessions and private land, seems to work pretty well for thousands of sheep hunters every year.

 

[DoubleBroomedMountainRifles]

Or just go with a reputable outfitter and hunt hard, and worry less about concessions and private land, seems to work pretty well for thousands of sheep hunters every year.

Your message spelled it out. “Thousands of sheep hunters every year” ....your figure is a touch off, not quite that many in Alaska but a non resident hunter in lots of Alaska’s non concessioned guiding areas (19 and 20 GMU’s especially) will certainly feel like that with the over a 100 plus guides registered to operate in those areas. Then multiply that by a factor of 5 for the amount of assistant guides working for these outfitters and you can see how this is a crowed mess!

I get it, you are a non resident guide or non resident assistant guide that wants to see the status quo with zero changes to our states crowded guiding areas. I am a resident assistant guide wanting to better educate the non resident public of the issues Alaska has concerning overcrowded areas and provide a much better overall hunt to my clients.

Most non resident have not a clue about this unrestricted/unlimited guides and most outfitters hunting and providing commercial services in these state land areas would rather me just keep silent. Because it does not lend well to selling hunts when non residents know the truth.

If after these non residents know the truth and are happy saving a couple thousand for a potential crowed mess of a hunting area I guess that is their choice. But when they don’t know and show up to camp with several other commercial camps well that would really be too bad. Happens countless times a year up here. And just because an outfitter can say honestly that their area has no other commercial hunting service near by does not mean one can’t show up the following year. There is nothing they can do about it except an apology to the paying client.

Guide use concessions on Alaska Stare land would greatly increase the quality of hunts in Alaska. And with our genetics of Alaska Dalls will eventually put Alaska back to number one for Dall sheep hunting. And with the absence of state land concessions the non resident public is left with using outfitters on Federal concessions or limited AK drawing areas for top quality uncrowned hunting conditions bottom line.

Which BTW this initiative for creating state land concessions (which will drastically cut the number of outfitters/guides from our state) is supported overwhelmingly by the members of the Alaska Professional Hunters Association and more importantly by the general public residents of Alaska.

 

[Nick Muche]

No disrespect to you Steve, but Tanner has been around the block and has guided some very lucky hunters to great rams in an area that many, even you, would consider to be one of the hardest places in the state to take a legal ram, let alone a giant.

 

[Dexter Grayson]

I’m calling shenanigans Nick, no way to kill a ram let alone a giant without hunting a concession.

 

[Tanner]

it seems that most resident hunters would support anything that would cause there to be less competition in the field, and I can’t really say I blame you for that, as I feel the same when I’m hunting at home in Colorado. However, I believe that with a sole use concession, there is often the side effect of outfitters getting lazy, price gouging, and not providing a quality hunt, once they’re the only ones able to guide in an area. We’ve seen it in Colorado with bighorn guides in single permit areas, and it makes it really tough on guys that wait a long time to pull their tag. I’m simply a supporter of competition amongst business people to create a market where a person has options.


personally I have no agenda either way because I make a daily wage as a guide and I will make that same daily wage whether I worked in a concession area or the same areas I’ve always worked in. But I’ve seen first hand the bullshit that ensues once an outfitter is granted sole use of an area, and I’m not into it.

 

[DoubleBroomedMountainRifles]

I’m calling shenanigans Nick, no way to kill a ram let alone a giant without hunting a concession.

I’ve never said a thing about rams can’t be harvested or big rams aren’t taken in non concessioned areas.

This thread started out asking about grizzlies and Dall sheep combo hunts. I said make sure you know about Alaska’s concession program before booking a hunt. 99 percent of the non residents have no clue what our states guide rules are and I was simply informing him of that. That we have two different hunts in our state.

To say that the quality in a non concession areas and the overall hunt experience with potential crowding issues is the same as in federal concessioned areas is not being truthful.

There is a reason that in the last 10 years Alaska has lost a lot of sheep hunters to the Yukon and the NWT even though their prices on avg will be $10K more when the entire hunt is finished and your trophy is back with you headed to the taxidermist.

It is 100 percent due to our decreased resource and crowed conditions. Alaska has way too many commercial operations for sheep hunting of course as a resident sheep hunter I want those numbers to decrease. But as a guide I also want our state to have a quality sheep reputation again. And sadly with the non concessioned vacuum cleaner mentality of some outfitters I don’t see that taking place anytime soon.

And Tanner this is not personal. Your reputation as a sheep guide is not in question. You work for one of the few outfits that I would even consider booking with on non concessioned/non permit areas. Steve Johnson is one that has his outfits wired tight.

Most of the time I personally would like to see the must be guided laws done away with in this state all together and our non resident permits cut in half down to 250 permits available in a drawing for non residents . The few good outfitters and guides will survive and the majority left will fade away.

 

[Tanner]

No slight taken on my end, it’s a good conversation to have. All I have to base my opinions off of is seeing how a few single-permit areas have been affected in Colorado and I hope that if Federal Concessions become the Alaskan way, that there is some accountability measures taken to ensure that the sole-use guide is providing a quality hunt at reasonable prices.

i do think one other reason Alaska has lost a lot of business to Canada is that some folks prefer a less of a ball-kicker hunt and for that I can’t blame them either.