Who here doesn’t shoot beyond 300yrds ?

[Plague]

This right here with a proviso:

smacking anywhere on steel at 600+ is not the same as being capable of ethically killing an animal at 600+. Which means "confidence" could be unfounded.

EC's Ethical Hunter challenge proves how few are capable of this. I will, however, concede that a deer's vital area is larger than 1moa @500. But it does highlight the massive gap between a 1MOA rifle at 100 and a 1MOA rifle/shooter at 500+.

Go through every one of those videos and add up how many of those misses were still well within the vitals. Of those that hit outside of true vital area, do you think most of them would have done much better at 300 yards? Likely not. How many of the folks missing the vitals also have issue with operating the rifle smoothly? Most of them.

 

[bnewt3]

Go through every one of those videos and add up how many of those misses were still well within the vitals. Of those that hit outside of true vital area, do you think most of them would have done much better at 300 yards? Likely not. How many of the folks missing the vitals also have issue with operating the rifle smoothly? Most of them.

The point, though, is that most.....maybe all, of the people that do that challenge *think* they can hit 1MOA @500 and few can. Which highlights the unfounded confidence in many hunters. They may make an ethical shot in the challenge, but still dont shoot as well as they think they can. Which likely means they, when presented with the right(wrong) opportunity, will attempt a shot they shouldnt.

 

[Poser]

Longest shot I've taken is 260 yards and the angle was rather steep. I do practice longer shots out to 400,500,600 yards, but, where I am hunting, the chances of taking a flat shot are very low so its always going to be an angle, often steep, to account for and beyond 300, there is going to be a complex wind factor. I'd be willing to stretch it out to 350 under the right conditions, however.

 

[Plague]

The point, though, is that most.....maybe all, of the people that do that challenge *think* they can hit 1MOA @500 and few can. Which highlights the unfounded confidence in many hunters. They may make an ethical shot in the challenge, but still dont shoot as well as they think they can. Which likely means they, when presented with the right(wrong) opportunity, will attempt a shot they shouldnt.

Can we both agree that 1 moa at 500 yards is not what is required to make an ethical kill? If so, the show doesn’t tell us anything about ethical hunting. I does show us that a lot of folks don’t shoot their guns at all or outside of a controlled flat range environment. The folks who make hits that would have resulted in an ethical kill can usually be picked out before they have pulled the trigger. The point I was trying to make is this. Having a 500 yard shot be ethical is up to the environmental conditions and shooter skill with the equipment. If you spend the time to learn a few things and practice, this is not a very difficult shot to make or know if it should be made. My 11 year old shoots smaller than deer vital sized steel from field positions to set his max range from each position. I would have no problem letting him take a 500 yard shot at a perfectly broadside deer with a consistent and known wind speed/direction. It’s simply not that hard when the variables are known and accounted for.

 

[KenLee]

Never because I set a personal MER of 350. But if you're shooting at a Pronghorn at 800 yards, even the edge of MOA could cause a shot that is bad enough to keep you from recovering.

Need more wallop

 

[JGRaider]

If you spend the time to learn a few things and practice, this is not a very difficult shot to make or know if it should be made. My 11 year old shoots smaller than deer vital sized steel from field positions to set his max range from each position. I would have no problem letting him take a 500 yard shot at a perfectly broadside deer with a consistent and known wind speed/direction. It’s simply not that hard when the variables are known and accounted for.

Herein lies the problem........when a guy "thinks" he knows but in reality does not. That's why cold bore, 1st round hits are not a guarantee, by anybody, anywhere.

 

[Plague]

Herein lies the problem........when a guy "thinks" he knows but in reality does not. That's why cold bore, 1st round hits are not a guarantee, by anybody, anywhere.

See the first sentence in my post you quoted. It is possible to know if a shot should be taken.

 

[BagsandBullets]

Never taken a shot past 300 but I wouldn’t be concerned with the right equipment and good training.

 

[Hnthrdr]

Farthest shot on an animal was 500 on a MD a few years ago, dropped him. But generally I prefer to close the distance, I do a fair amount of archery and muzzle loader hunting so most of my kills are sub 100 yards, last kill being about 40 yards on a bull, always fun to be in tight

 

[bnewt3]

Can we both agree that 1 moa at 500 yards is not what is required to make an ethical kill? If so, the show doesn’t tell us anything about ethical hunting. I does show us that a lot of folks don’t shoot their guns at all or outside of a controlled flat range environment. The folks who make hits that would have resulted in an ethical kill can usually be picked out before they have pulled the trigger. The point I was trying to make is this. Having a 500 yard shot be ethical is up to the environmental conditions and shooter skill with the equipment. If you spend the time to learn a few things and practice, this is not a very difficult shot to make or know if it should be made. My 11 year old shoots smaller than deer vital sized steel from field positions to set his max range from each position. I would have no problem letting him take a 500 yard shot at a perfectly broadside deer with a consistent and known wind speed/direction. It’s simply not that hard when the variables are known and accounted for.

I do agree

But my point still stands. If a hunter is unduly confident in their abilities(like many, if not most of the EC contestants show), they may attempt a shot on an animal they shouldnt.

If a hunter doesnt know they dont possess the experience and/or skill to *insert shooting parameters here* on a flat, low pressure range, how is it reasonable to think they will recognize the limits of their abilities in a much higher pressure hunting scenario?

Its not about how difficult the shot is or is not, the distance, the size of the animal, its about knowing oneself enough to know your own limits. That, IMO, is where many hunters get messed up.

 

[Chase4566]

At the range, yes I will shoot longer than 300. Where I hunt, the furthest shot we have been able to come up with is a shade over 300yds and that’s not at a place we hunt. At our stands, the furthest shot we have is about 225. So, we practice out to 200 just in case the opportunity arises and a nice buck comes out. Vast majority of the deer shot are 120yds or less. I shot one the other year at 180.

We do have one stand that offers about 290yds. But that deer would be right up against the neighbors fence, so we don’t have a safe shot. They would have to work toward us to about 175yds before we had a safe shot where the bullet doesn’t have an opportunity to cross a fence line. I have watched a decent buck walk down that fence line and disappear behind some brush to never be seen again.

 

[Plague]

I do agree

But my point still stands. If a hunter is unduly confident in their abilities(like many, if not most of the EC contestants show), they may attempt a shot on an animal they shouldnt.

If a hunter doesnt know they dont possess the experience and/or skill to *insert shooting parameters here* on a flat, low pressure range, how is it reasonable to think they will recognize the limits of their abilities in a much higher pressure hunting scenario?

Its not about how difficult the shot is or is not, the distance, the size of the animal, its about knowing oneself enough to know your own limits. That, IMO, is where many hunters get messed up.

You have moved the goalpost my friend. You don’t seem to be trying to reinforce your statement that cold bore shots aren’t a guarantee for anyone anywhere. Now we’re talking about the problem being hunters don’t train or actually know what they are capable of in the field. Which is literally the point I was making.

 

[bnewt3]

This right here with a proviso:

smacking anywhere on steel at 600+ is not the same as being capable of ethically killing an animal at 600+. Which means "confidence" could be unfounded.

EC's Ethical Hunter challenge proves how few are capable of this. I will, however, concede that a deer's vital area is larger than 1moa @500. But it does highlight the massive gap between a 1MOA rifle at 100 and a 1MOA rifle/shooter at 500+.

You have moved the goalpost my friend. You don’t seem to be trying to reinforce your statement that cold bore shots aren’t a guarantee for anyone anywhere. Now we’re talking about the problem being hunters don’t train or actually know what they are capable of in the field. Which is literally the point I was making.

I think you are confusing me with someone else.

I think my comments have stayed consistent. I havent mentioned cold bore.

 

[Plague]

I think you are confusing me with someone else.

I think my comments have stayed consistent. I havent mentioned cold bore.

Ah shoot. You are right. I was looking at another persons post that quoted me and didn’t notice the user name is different. Apologies sir.

 

[Broomd]

I will hit 73 later this month and have never killed a big game animal beyond 300 yards.

Yep, will be 63 this Fall, and neither have I. Killed freezers (and walls) full of goats, sheep, moose, caribou, deer and elk.
The longest shot was 285 yards on an Idaho California Bighorn ram, and only because I had no choice, could stalk no further.

If I can't shoot it within 300, it will walk.

 

[DugLyfe]

300yds is a good distance. I'm mainly in the woods.

 

[Kyguy]

Almost every single one of those guys in the ethical hunter challenge also says that with the wind conditions they're shooting in (it's usually a good wind out there), that they WOULD NOT take a shot at an actual game animal in those conditions at 500 yards... even with their 25lb PRS rifles.

 

[rstriteq]

Until I started hunting out west, I never even practice out past 200 here in VA where I hunt mostly mountains and some farm lands. Killed 2 deer at 200 yds or so in 35 years of hunting in VA. Most are 100 yds and in. Once I went out west, I got a scope with a turret and got good out to 550 yds or so. Furthest elk kill has been 409 yds to date.