Who here doesn’t shoot beyond 300yrds ?

[Q_Sertorius]

I never understood the alure of shooting at animals over a few hundred yards. Honestly, I think its the worst thing that has happened to hunting over the last 50 years....

So many wounded animals from people shooting rifles AND BOWS at long distances. Mostly, because "If I don't shoot now, someone else will kill the animal" mentality. Its disgusting.

It certainly is about outcompeting other hunters in some instances.

I think it is partly the result of crowded western lands due to access issues - land has become both easier to access and harder to access. Lots of places have road access. And lots of other places have been closed off. That pushes the hunters into the same spots.

I hate ATVs, so I also blame it on them. If I am hunting on foot and see an animal 700 yards away, if I start to stalk closer, there’s an excellent chance that someone on an ATV can drive up and shoot at it from the perch. That’s what happened to my friend Ian and his son on their public land hunt in Oregon. They had a spike tag for his son. Spotted it, decided to get closer for a higher percentage shot for the son. Some dudes drove up and fired 11 shots before finally killing the elk. They were actually shooting over my friends’ heads.

That’s the sort of thing I never encounter on private land.

East of the Mississippi and in Texas, long range shooting has been a thing for a long time. Beanfield rifles were a thing for a long time. Hunting meant going out and sitting in a stand with hundreds of yards of open fields in view. Not my style, but some people like that.

 

[Q_Sertorius]

Some people are content to not shoot past 300 yards, that’s fine but I personally would be livid at myself if I spent all the time, money and effort to travel out west and missed out on an opportunity I wanted because I was unprepared and not proficient enough with my rifle to utilize its full capabilities.

Here in PA the vast majority of the deer I kill are 100 and in with the longest being around 220. However our friend who’s property we hunt has a field that is 600 yards long, if a deer steps out into that field during rifle season there is no sneak closer or find it later option. Your choices are make the shot now or watch that deer disappear off the property. It’s not “somebody else will kill my deer”, there’s plenty of deer to go around but I am selective in what deer I shoot and only get so many opportunities in rifle season to take such a deer. Missing one of those opportunities because I didn’t bother to understand what my rifle is capable of just seems like wasted potential.

Completely agree. I want to be proficient to 600 yards, even if my opportunities at that range are uncommon.

 

[7RemMag]

Born and raised a MPBR guy. It’s the way Dad’s always done it and his Dad before. Living in WY, I have a lot of friends that are dial turners. I understand the rationale, but I certainly don’t use it. I’ve killed a handful of critters at over 400 yards(but not over 500). Inside of 400 yards standing and broadside, I’m shocked when the animal isn’t hit in the front shoulder and expired or is expiring.

Throughout my hunting career which is admittedly shorter than plenty here due to my age, I can only think of one instance where “getting closer” just was not an option. That was my Bighorn Sheep. At 373 yards, we were out of cover sitting almost level across the canyon from the sheep. Had we been able, we’d have closed down to 300, but as we sat there by that “last” rock, Dad and I established that this was it. Any further, and we’d risk busting the sheep.

More importantly than any predetermined distance to shoot is that the individual knows what they and their equipment are capable of. That distance is different for each person.

 

[grfox92]

I filled my first seven deer tags here.....

View attachment 1053429

And I did it using this..............

View attachment 1053430



You could also get proficient at understanding how mule deer use their habitat and, more specifically, how the herd you're hunting uses it, but then, you'd know how silly this statement is:


Do you think your mule deer that use the ground in your photo are somehow special compared to the mule deer that use the ground contained in mine?

"There is no catching up to them" when you have no idea how the herd you're hunting uses its range, perhaps.

That's not the case when you know where they came from when you saw them and have some informed opinion over where they're headed.

That's why I could fill another 10 deer tags on the ground you see in my photo with this:
View attachment 1053445

I'm rather obviously NOT convinced that wide open terrain makes long-distance shooting of game an absolute necessity, because it doesn't.

Its clear that your clueless. The mule deer "herd" that I am hunting likely traveled 50 to 100 miles to walk past me. They dont live where I am hunting them, they are passing through. In the drainage I posted a picture of there are between 50 and 100 centuries old migration trails covering a drainage that is thousands of yards wide. Deer migrate heavily on all of them. Come on over and "narrow down" which trail a migrating deer is going to show up on buddy.

You seem to open your mouth alot with a ton of undue arrogance and condacendence. Try being humble sometime, people might like you.

 

[WDR]

I prefer to get as close as possible, but I will take a longer shot if the conditions are good. I've killed several animals, beyond 300 yards, but it was always a one or two shot affair (not a rodeo), calm conditions, calm animals, good rests, and not having options to get closer without spooking the game or risking them moving off before I could get set up. I really hate rushed shots, even at short range.

500 is about my limit, as I am still learning to read wind, and I don't like slinging lead on hopes and prayers. 350 and in is pretty much a chip shot though.

To be clear, I'm a western hunter, and often hunt big wide open country.

 

[MallardSX2]

Easy, the vast majority of people are carrying a rifle that is capable of killing game cleanly out to 500+ yards and have been for decades at this point. The only reason the vast majority consider 300 yards a maximum is because that is right around the range it goes from “point and shoot” to requiring some additional understanding about the rifle’s capabilities to continue to maintain success.

Some people are content to not shoot past 300 yards, that’s fine but I personally would be livid at myself if I spent all the time, money and effort to travel out west and missed out on an opportunity I wanted because I was unprepared and not proficient enough with my rifle to utilize its full capabilities.

Here in PA the vast majority of the deer I kill are 100 and in with the longest being around 220. However our friend who’s property we hunt has a field that is 600 yards long, if a deer steps out into that field during rifle season there is no sneak closer or find it later option. Your choices are make the shot now or watch that deer disappear off the property. It’s not “somebody else will kill my deer”, there’s plenty of deer to go around but I am selective in what deer I shoot and only get so many opportunities in rifle season to take such a deer. Missing one of those opportunities because I didn’t bother to understand what my rifle is capable of just seems like wasted potential.

I'm confident in my shooting abilities at extreme range. Doesn't make it right or ethical, so I choose not to do it. Its a personal preference because I respect the animal more than most.

The argument of "there is no sneak closer or find it later option" is utterly ridiculous.

I'm done with the topic though. I voiced my point of view. You do you and go out and wound whatever you want to.

 

[beesting]

300 yards in the max distance i shoot. Most all my elk where 100 yards or less.

 

[hibernation]

Oregon coastal hunter here , last year we were on average of 600yds on our bear, elk and deer . All cold bore first round impacts. Definitely need to do some range practice and have a good set up. Ive seen guys attempt that distance with sub par factory ammo and 4x12 power scopes. Always ends in wasted ammo or an injured animal. Not good.

The coast range is such an interesting place to hunt. You're so limited by terrain and vegetation, sometimes it's like your options are a 400 yard shot or a 25 yard shot. There's no in-between.

 

[hibernation]

It certainly is about outcompeting other hunters in some instances.

I think it is partly the result of crowded western lands due to access issues - land has become both easier to access and harder to access. Lots of places have road access. And lots of other places have been closed off. That pushes the hunters into the same spots.

I hate ATVs, so I also blame it on them. If I am hunting on foot and see an animal 700 yards away, if I start to stalk closer, there’s an excellent chance that someone on an ATV can drive up and shoot at it from the perch. That’s what happened to my friend Ian and his son on their public land hunt in Oregon. They had a spike tag for his son. Spotted it, decided to get closer for a higher percentage shot for the son. Some dudes drove up and fired 11 shots before finally killing the elk. They were actually shooting over my friends’ heads.

That’s the sort of thing I never encounter on private land.

East of the Mississippi and in Texas, long range shooting has been a thing for a long time. Beanfield rifles were a thing for a long time. Hunting meant going out and sitting in a stand with hundreds of yards of open fields in view. Not my style, but some people like that.

The pressure (and/or perceived pressure) definitely influences people's decision making. On a limited entry tag, or private land, you might have all the time in the world to watch the animal and plan out a stalk. On some of these heavily hunted OTC tags, it can feel like there's a ticking clock anytime you see an animal out in the open.

It's one reason I'd rather take a low-odds hunt with less competition, than a higher-odds hunt with people everywhere. I want the challenge to come from the actual hunting, not navigating hunting pressure and racing other hunters.

Same reason I don't really salmon fish anymore, it's not worth the elbow to elbow combat fishing.

 

[The Ri Guy]

I prefer to be within 350 when possible, but will shoot out to 450 myself.

At a certain point, you exceed the animals God given ability to utilize their natural skill set to survive. At those ranges I do not consider it hunting, but shooting, and therefore have no interest in pulling the trigger.

Part of the hunt for me is the successful stalking into range per my own self-set limitations.

To each their own.

 

[WDR]

At a certain point, you exceed the animals God given ability to utilize their natural skill set to survive. At those ranges I do not consider it hunting, but shooting, and therefore have no interest in pulling the trigger.

Part of the hunt for me is the successful stalking into range per my own self-set limitations.

I agree... at some point is more shooting than hunting. I'd say "long range hunting" is a stunt... but some folks are set up and well enough practiced to make 1st round hits waaay beyond where I would consider a shot myself, and those guys are not stunt shooting. Whether they are still "hunting" might be argued, but I try not to cast stones. I do think the guys who go by box ballistics, and shoot ten rounds a year, but sling lead at game 500+ should stop that crap.

My longest shot on a big game animal, was a cow elk at 425ish. This was before I had a range finder, but I measured it later. I knew my gun/load, conditions were absolutely perfect (zero wind, clear sight lines for follow up shots), and I had a large flat boulder that I could lay semi-prone on, across my pack, and get rock steady to shoot across the canyon. I felt pretty confident in my range estimation, and put two through her boiler room about 3" apart, shooting and racking the bolt to send #2 immediately, since she was still standing. I was holding over for the distance (back then I didn't dial anything, ever). She tumbled down the steep snowy hill about 200 yards within 10 seconds of my first shot.

There were about 200 elk in that canyon, and I had completely ran out of cover. They watched me set up, but most of them stayed bedded for the 20 minutes or so I waited to get set, pick out a nice cow that was clear of orhers, and wait for her to stand up. It was shoot and make meat, or blow them out. But that is about as far as I ever like to shoot. I'd rather close to 200 or less if I can.

 

[BLJ]

I agree... at some point is more shooting than hunting. I'd say "long range hunting" is a stunt... but some folks are set up and well enough practiced to make 1st round hits waaay beyond where I would consider a shot myself, and those guys are not stunt shooting. Whether they are still "hunting" might be argued, but I try not to cast stones. I do think the guys who go by box ballistics, and shoot ten rounds a year, but sling lead at game 500+ should stop that crap.

My longest shot on a big game animal, was a cow elk at 425ish. This was before I had a range finder, but I measured it later. I knew my gun/load, conditions were absolutely perfect (zero wind, clear sight lines for follow up shots), and I had a large flat boulder that I could lay semi-prone on, across my pack, and get rock steady to shoot across the canyon. I felt pretty confident in my range estimation, and put two through her boiler room about 3" apart, shooting and racking the bolt to send #2 immediately, since she was still standing. I was holding over for the distance (back then I didn't dial anything, ever). She tumbled down the steep snowy hill about 200 yards within 10 seconds of my first shot.

There were about 200 elk in that canyon, and I had completely ran out of cover. They watched me set up, but most of them stayed bedded for the 20 minutes or so I waited to get set, pick out a nice cow that was clear of orhers, and wait for her to stand up. It was shoot and make meat, or blow them out. But that is about as far as I ever like to shoot. I'd rather close to 200 or less if I can.

What scope?

 

[43.6N]

I like to shoot them where I find them.
But that’s based entirely off experience in my home terrain.
Here’s an example:

I’m right on the edge of their bubble of awareness.

It’s a large shallow draw, with minimal cover. At the time I took this picture I had favorable wind. About 15 min later the wind shifted and alerted the herd.
Any movement closer on my part would alert the herd.
So it’s not so much that I want to make a 400-500-600 shot, it’s that this is the type of scenario that presents itself. So, I equip myself and practice accordingly.

 

[Kooziehiker]

Definitely try to stay under 300 yards. Most of the time that has worked well for 30 years. I do practice at 300 and I have been fortunate to make a few 400 yard shots. All with stock factory rifles like Ruger American, Remington 700, without dials bipod or muzzle brakes. Definitely don't need to spend over 1000 for a hunting rifle now. Factory Guns are great shooting.
I do appreciate those who strive for more accuracy and distance, and the innovation of some more modern rifle builds.

 

[MallardSX2]

I like to shoot them where I find them.
But that’s based entirely off experience in my home terrain.
Here’s an example:
View attachment 1053652
I’m right on the edge of their bubble of awareness.

It’s a large shallow draw, with minimal cover. At the time I took this picture I had favorable wind. About 15 min later the wind shifted and alerted the herd.
Any movement closer on my part would alert the herd.
So it’s not so much that I want to make a 400-500-600 shot, it’s that this is the type of scenario that presents itself. So, I equip myself and practice accordingly.

JFC!

Its a miracle anyone has ever killed one of those elusive animals with an arrow!

Now, I'm out. lol

 

[43.6N]

JFC!

Its a miracle anyone has ever killed one of those elusive animals with an arrow!

Now, I'm out. lol

I feel like I might have walked into something here.
Jfc?

I wish you only the best man.

 

[Ajsomp]

Born and raised a MPBR guy. It’s the way Dad’s always done it and his Dad before. Living in WY, I have a lot of friends that are dial turners. I understand the rationale, but I certainly don’t use it. I’ve killed a handful of critters at over 400 yards(but not over 500). Inside of 400 yards standing and broadside, I’m shocked when the animal isn’t hit in the front shoulder and expired or is expiring.

Throughout my hunting career which is admittedly shorter than plenty here due to my age, I can only think of one instance where “getting closer” just was not an option. That was my Bighorn Sheep. At 373 yards, we were out of cover sitting almost level across the canyon from the sheep. Had we been able, we’d have closed down to 300, but as we sat there by that “last” rock, Dad and I established that this was it. Any further, and we’d risk busting the sheep.

More importantly than any predetermined distance to shoot is that the individual knows what they and their equipment are capable of. That distance is different for each person.

I think this is a good point to bring up. There was an era where range finders didn’t exist. So having a rifle that you could reasonably kill animals at without knowing the exact range was key factor in cartridge selection.

Now good range finders, even “cheaper” ones, give a great degree of accuracy to where I believe you don’t have to rely solely on MPBR to hunt. Doesn’t mean you have to dial, just means that people can do so with a greater degree of accuracy. And hopefully a higher degree of killing effectiveness.

 

[WDR]

What scope?

Rifle was a beater Savage in .30-06, Nikon Prostaff 3-9 w/duplex, 180 Accubond handloads. Nothing fancy, a cheap setup, but the gun shoots less than MOA, and has killed a lot of game. That gun has been my go-to hunting rifle for almost 20 years. A few years ago I shot my bull at 361 yards with the same rifle (one and done, right in the heart). I had upgraded to a 4.5-14 Leupold by then.

I'm mid-40's now, hunt harder/farther, and have a bum shoulder, so I'm exploring ".223 for everything" as a viable option for me, and killed a cow elk and a buck deer with a fast twist .223 Savage I set up about a year ago shooting 80 ELDs. Adding a suppressor, cutting recoil, and having better glass, for slightly less weight than my old .30-06 has worked out good for me so far.

I was shooting some big game with a .223 before too (also with succes), but this new gun was specifically set up for my uses. I had set a limit of 400 yards last year while hunting, but shooting my 80 ELD load on steel out to 1k has been educational and confidence inspiring. Ive shot that .223 more in a year than I have shot the .30 in probably 5 years. Velocity wise with my load its a ~500 yard gun.

But I really prefer getting close and making well placed, single shot kills. 200 and less is ideal. Basically eliminates a ton of variables and puts you firmly into making meat, instead of rodeos.

 

[RancherJohn]

I'm confident in my shooting abilities at extreme range. Doesn't make it right or ethical, so I choose not to do it. Its a personal preference because I respect the animal more than most.

The argument of "there is no sneak closer or find it later option" is utterly ridiculous.

I'm done with the topic though. I voiced my point of view. You do you and go out and wound whatever you want to.

What an incredibly ill-informed and self-righteous post. Classic move though, insulting then leaving.

I have killed elk in the low double digit yardages and out to 700 yards. Closer is always the goal, but there are times when you literally run out of terrain or vegetation to hide behind. Every shot is a unique opportunity, and does not mean the next shot at that range will be taken. The vast majority of big game I and those I hunt with have killed in the west has come at distances under 300 yards (and for new hunters it's my imposed max range), but we are prepared (and well-practiced) to shoot further.

You clearly like hunting out west, but you're missing a LOT of opportunities if you can't shoot over 300 yards here. There are plenty of times hunting late season cow elk where you cannot physically get closer than ~400 yards. Elk will find terrain features they can get on where the wind swirls and they can see 360*. You are not beating 200 sets of eyeballs and 200 noses trying to belly crawl in 2 feet of snow for hundreds of yards to get to a suitable spot. You also are not moving fast enough in those conditions to catch up or cut them off if you aren't already in front of them.

Your one week a year experience of hunting in the west during October or November does not expose you to all the different types of hunting scenarios that can play out, and to imply that someone who is more experienced or better prepared than you is unethical/not respecting the animal/only out wounding is farcical.

 

[grfox92]

I'm confident in my shooting abilities at extreme range. Doesn't make it right or ethical, so I choose not to do it. Its a personal preference because I respect the animal more than most.

The argument of "there is no sneak closer or find it later option" is utterly ridiculous.

I'm done with the topic though. I voiced my point of view. You do you and go out and wound whatever you want to.

You are welcome to come out to NW Wyoming next fall and show me exactly how you plan on closing the distance or finding later a migrating mule deer.

There is a big difference between resident deer and elk and migrating deer and elk, so yes, there is an argument that you have to shoot when you can and when you spot an animal in certain situations. Its not a one size fits all. Does that mean you need to he prepared to shoot at 1000 yards? Nope. But if you think you are going to consistently kill migratory animals at 300 and in, your being dishonest or you just dont get it.

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