Who has moved UP in caliber for elk

[The Fish Box]

So do you guys think a .243 with a 120 grain bullets of your choice is going to have the same impact on an animal as a 300 grain 338 bullets mono or lead core of your choice at 500 yards for an arbitrary distance? All things created equal the 338 bullet is going to have a better effect on an animal.

 

[762 ULTRAMAGA]

What bullets? What impact velocity? There's nothing to be learned about vague generalities when bullet construction and impact velocities are the 2 variables that are most important.

147 eldm impact V 2130, perfect hit right through the lungs and good expansion, as I said very little internal damage

225 eldm impact v 2175, friends bull hit poorly in center shoulder and anchored on the spot

215 hybrid impact v 2150, bad wind call and hit in the guts approx 8" behind lungs, piled up in 40 yards with massive internal hemoraging

 

[Formidilosus]

147 eldm impact V 2130, perfect hit right through the lungs and good expansion, as I said very little internal damage

225 eldm impact v 2175, friends bull hit poorly in center shoulder and anchored on the spot

215 hybrid impact v 2150, bad wind call and hit in the guts approx 8" behind lungs, piled up in 40 yards with massive internal hemoraging

If you are comparing a 147gr to a 225gr, like constructed, fragmenting bullet- no, the 147gr will not create as much damage. This two you mentioned are some of the most destructive bullets for big 30cals available. Though, a bone hit will create more damage as the splintered bone itself becomes fragments that tear.

Given maximized tissue destruction, 6.5’s can not match 30 cals at like impact speeds. That’s not really the question though. It’s whether 6.5’s create sufficient wounds for elk- to that, if a bonded 270/7mm/30cal is “enough” than so is a 6.5.

These are the wounds from a bull that was shot with a couple 143gr ELD-X’s at 735 yards. Impact velocity of 1,990’ish fps. From impact to dropping about 20 yards.


If that’s isn’t sufficient wound channels, then someone better be shooting a big 30 or 338 magnum with frangible bullets.

 

[coloradoan]

On a practical level, I’m wondering if there are any shots that a person should feel comfortable taking with a 30-06 firing 180 gr bullets but shouldn’t take with a 6.5 creed firing 140 gr bullets of similar construction.

 

[EmperorMA]

On a practical level, I’m wondering if there are any shots that a person should feel comfortable taking with a 30-06 firing 180 gr bullets but shouldn’t take with a 6.5 creed firing 140 gr bullets of similar construction.

I can’t imagine a single one.

 

[wyosam]

147 eldm impact V 2130, perfect hit right through the lungs and good expansion, as I said very little internal damage

225 eldm impact v 2175, friends bull hit poorly in center shoulder and anchored on the spot

215 hybrid impact v 2150, bad wind call and hit in the guts approx 8" behind lungs, piled up in 40 yards with massive internal hemoraging

How was “good expansion” measured on the 147 ELDm? I don’t like that bullet at all for hunting purposes, but those that do claim the violent expansion as its strong point. If there wasn’t tissue widespread tissue damage, then there wasn’t violent expansion.

A shot centered in the shoulder is likely to drop. Thats the benefit of smashing through shoulders, whether it was intended or not.

Massive internal hemorrhage on a gut shot means it found a major blood vessel to open. More dumb luck than bullet performance.

Those are all very anecdotal. I do think that shooting target bullets at elk does get a little more forgiving as the weight goes up.


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[wyosam]

So do you guys think a .243 with a 120 grain bullets of your choice is going to have the same impact on an animal as a 300 grain 338 bullets mono or lead core of your choice at 500 yards for an arbitrary distance? All things created equal the 338 bullet is going to have a better effect on an animal.

That is a loooooong slippery .243! Unless of course it is a round nose..


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[douglasfir]

On a practical level, I’m wondering if there are any shots that a person should feel comfortable taking with a 30-06 firing 180 gr bullets but shouldn’t take with a 6.5 creed firing 140 gr bullets of similar construction.

Probably not.

 

[Tradchef]

I go between my 25-06 and 35 whelen for elk. Just depends on where i'm hunting. Both do a fantastic job

 

[coloradoan]

I go between my 25-06 and 35 whelen for elk. Just depends on where i'm hunting. Both do a fantastic job

What factors make you decide to choose one over the other?

 

[rickco]

While I own several rifles 30/30, 6.5CM, 270, 30-06, and 300WM and have killed elk with all of them. My experience (31 elk to date) caliber does not mean dead elk. I am a hunter and take the responsibility of killing an elk seriously. What matters to me are a serious amount of practice (not on the bench), leaving your ego at the truck, and understanding your capabilities. My limit on the 270,30/06 and 300 is 400 yards. Bullets for elk that are not target bullet with a interlocking ring. Hornady makes on of the finest elk bullets their Interbond. Unfortunately they don't make many of them. Lastly caliber. Elk are killed by the thousands with pointy little sticks every year. Shoot what you shoot well.

 

[Davidson51]

Another 6.5CM here. I took an elk this season at 138 yards with a Barnes Vortex 127gr. Double lung shot and dropped dead within 15 feet. I was pretty happy with the bullet expansion and size of the holes. Not thinking of moving up in caliber.

 

[Squincher]

What is it about small caliber guys that they have to jump in even when someone asks specifically about moving up in caliber? I swear, Jehovahs Witnesses have nothing on these guys.

 

[Tradchef]

What factors make you decide to choose one over the other?

I use the 25 mostly for deer but if I see elk and can get within 350 yards or closer its fantastic. I took my bull this year with that caliber. If I know I’ll be in more timbered areas instead of super open I’ll use the 35. Point being they both get the job done if I do my part.

 

[TheGDog]

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I moved up from a 308 to 300 WM to extend my effective range...and use a muzzle brake on it (lower recoil than my light weight 308).

If you only care about 300 yards or less, I would probably focus more on bullet choice than changing calibers. For example, I would look at the 140 grain sledge hammer bullet for your creed.

With a 308 Win... with let's say a 168gr Barnes VOR-TX round... what's a realistic effective range on Elk? (Assuming good shot placement yada yada)

 

[TheGDog]

One quartering single lung, liver shot made it further than I would like but still down under 100 yards.

^^^Exactly what happened to me with .30-30 at like only 20yds! The Mule Deer currently in my Avatar picture. That I can tell... (after re-acquiring visually after shot) he like didn't even seem to flinch!! Federal Premium Trophy Copper with the RoundNose Polymer insert. Heavily Quartering away (he finally decided to risk crossing the gap I was facing, after having seen me attempt to begin bringing my rifle to bare.. but I saw that he noticed my movement and instantly froze, little bit of the freeze game ensured then he finally decided he needed to catch up to the Doe he wanted that was getting away) Bullet entered at almost exact midline of the body, just below last rib... pierced thru liver making like a 50-cent piece sized hole... completely decimated his RHS lung... and the bullet lodged just under the hide beneath the offhand Scapula. I'd guess about 24" total penetration!! And he STILL run something like 60yds! I couldn't believe it!

At first.. like no flinch!? I'm stunned at first, thinking "No way..No Way!!!... there's no way in Hell that didn't hit him! Too close to miss!!! He's running away directly away from my line of sight. Can't see well the offhand side... but from what could see no blood (there wasn't an exit wound, again, lodge under scapula just under hide). It wasn't until about 15yds of initial running that he finally started to favor his other leg and try to hold up the offhand side leg from touching the ground so much... to which I calmed back down a bit.. then just focused on committing to memory where he exited my FOV. Couldn't believe he'd take that up close hit like that... and seemingly not even flinch or kick up or anything! Bullet mushroomed perfect classic textbook too.

 

[Spoonbill]

What is it about small caliber guys that they have to jump in even when someone asks specifically about moving up in caliber? I swear, Jehovahs Witnesses have nothing on these guys.

At least it is not as bad as the guys who reply to a thread with a title like “looking for nice rifle as a gift for my grandson” with “all i ever needed is a ruger american and the cheapest vortex scope they make” because nothing says I am proud of you quite like a set up a broke college kid could afford.
In an effort to stay on topic, I went from a 270 to a 30-06. Main reason being I wanted a stainless rifle and didn’t want another 270. Built a 35 whelen a few years later, but that is solely because I wanted one, not for feeling under powered by my other two rifles.

 

[JakeSCH]

.
With a 308 Win... with let's say a 168gr Barnes VOR-TX round... what's a realistic effective range on Elk? (Assuming good shot placement yada yada)

I personally do not like to push the edge of bullet performance and like to have a buffer because things don't always go right.

That said, I would limit a 308 to 500 yards on elk and maybe a little closer depending on actual muzzle velocity out of your specific rifle or a few yards further if it is a hot handload.

The benefit I found going to my hot handload 300 WM is that at that same condition I am 500 FPS faster with a heavier bullet which translates to almost 6" less wind drift with a 10 mph gross wind...so it is more forgiving with my wind estimates.

@TheGDog are you reloading yet? You seriously need to try the hammer bullets.

 

[TheGDog]

@TheGDog are you reloading yet? You seriously need to try the hammer bullets.

Barely getting into reloading... I have a Lee hand press... I fully intended this weekend on likely picking up a turret press so I could do a set it and forget with multiple turrets. And buying 10mm brass+powder+primer+bullets. But the intended local merchant place was closed with temporary change to store hours... GRRR!!! Then... in return loop of drive passed by a Turner's..10mm? Nope. 380acp? Nope .357 Mag? Nope .38spl? Nope? .223? Nope. Some 22's that would work in my Walther P-22 which is more finicky? Nope. GRRRR!!! So got some more Waterfowl 12ga and 17 HMR, It's INSANE how Mother Hubbard bare places are right now!!! INSANE!!!

But at least I got some gunsmithing tools to help with an upcoming AR trigger swap (CMC Single Stage Flat trigger), and for addressing a sight-swap on the G29. (Trijicon Night-sights). And the 10mm dies arrived in the mail. So at least there's that.

This weekend was address lot of home fix/maint/swap-out and improve things, scenarios. I showed the boy how to replace a bathroom sink. Cleaned pool filters. Cleaned smoker grills. Mama got a wild hair up her butt to do the flooring in the boys room, so occasionally helping with that. Help yank the Murphy Bed Frame, then re-install after. Showed her how to brad nail the new baseboards back in the careful way by hand with a punch to finish driving them in so clean install, and easy to spackle over the tiny hole for the brad nail. Then stepped back and had to suppress the urge to giggle under my breath as she proceeded to occasionally whack her thumb with the 3# sledge a time or three.

But in the end the flooring in the boys room was a success and looks great, won't have to fuss with the bathroom for another 7yrs or so until the hard water around here messes up this one too. And the Tri-Tip and RibEye Roasts I did this weekend were freakin' amaze-balls! Total Nom-Nom Fest!!! Felt like a Shark with the eyelid covers rolled-up gnoshin' on that stuff! Whooo!!