Which rifle should I take on my Alaskan moose hunt in September?

[cnelk]

Last September in Alaska - my buddy used my 340 Weatherby Mag to shoot this moose at 300yds. 225gr Hornady handloads going 3000fps at the muzzle. I got to skin it.

The pic is the exit side of the bullet. Complete pass thru

Moose didn’t go 20

Luv me some magnums for moose hunting

 

[SaltySailor]

If I could go back I would have left my bullet selection out of it. I wasn’t asking that question. Very few have actually answered the question I asked. When I got into the magnum game it was because of guys online claiming elk were bullet proof and nothing less than a 300 mag would kill them, even though I grew up killing them with a 270 and watched my grandpa and uncles kills several more with a 30-06 and 243. I am in a position where I can afford to buy whatever rifles I want, I just won’t ever go back to the big magnums - I know they work, they just aren’t my cup of tea.

Also, with regards to bullet selection…I would think any bullet that could kill a big bull elk would work equally well for moose, maybe I am wrong. Everything I have read states they aren’t that tough, they are just big and take a while to fall over and die, regardless of the cartridge used.

I've taken multiple moose with a .243 and a grizz with a .243. The moose were never a problem as I always popped lungs, my old man would of smacked the shit out of me if I blasted one in the shoulder. Now the grizz, that will be the only time I shoot a grizz with 90 grains out of a .243. Spring hunt on snowgos, 4 out of the 5 hits were vitals and he put on quite a show before he died. I'm not recommending a magnum because I think you wont be able to kill a moose with a 6mm, I'm recommending one for when you walk up to your gut pile to get the last load and that grizz explodes out of the alders. Do you want a 6mm in your hands then? I grew up with the guy who shot the number 3 grizz (at the time) with a .308 and got it done, but the bear never knew he was there. I now hunt with a .300WM, not because I think that's the only thing that will take down a moose, but for the bears I bump on accident.

 

[slick]

If you have the means to buy any rifle you want... Then I'd use this as a great opportunity to go buy yourself a moose rifle.

Go big. 338+

 

[PredatorSlayer]

I have to wonder why you asked the question to begin with since you have already decided.i

I've taken multiple moose with a .243 and a grizz with a .243. The moose were never a problem as I always popped lungs, my old man would of smacked the shit out of me if I blasted one in the shoulder. Now the grizz, that will be the only time I shoot a grizz with 90 grains out of a .243. Spring hunt on snowgos, 4 out of the 5 hits were vitals and he put on quite a show before he died. I'm not recommending a magnum because I think you wont be able to kill a moose with a 6mm, I'm recommending one for when you walk up to your gut pile to get the last load and that grizz explodes out of the alders. Do you want a 6mm in your hands then? I grew up with the guy who shot the number 3 grizz (at the time) with a .308 and got it done, but the bear never knew he was there. I now hunt with a .300WM, not because I think that's the only thing that will take down a moose, but for the bears I bump on accident.

I don’t think a bolt action rifle would do you much good in the bear defense situation you describe. At that point you are in a close quarter combat situation. I actually just sold my 308 listed in the OP. So I need to replace it with another 308.

 

[hodgeman]

#1 - Christensen Arms BA Tactical in 6.5 PRC with a Nightforce NX8 4-32x50. 28” barrel with brake. 10.5lbs with Bipod. 147gr ELDM.

#2 - Seekins Havak 6.5 creedmoor with a Nightforce NXS 2.5-10x42. 24” barrel. 8.5lbs. 140gr ELDM

#3 - Christensen MPP 308 with a Trijicon Credo HX 1-8x28. 12.5” barrel and weighs 7lbs. Getting 2400fps with 168gr ELDM.

I wouldn't take any of that on a moose hunt.

I've shot several with the 300WSM/180AB and seen several more shot with a 33 Nosler/250AB and more yet with a 300WM....even saw a couple blasted with a 375 H&H.

Less is usually more, if you aren't moose hunting...then more is more. But hey, go ahead and argue with people who've shot a lot of moose.

 

[PredatorSlayer]

I wouldn't take any of that on a moose hunt.

I've shot several with the 300WSM/180AB and seen several more shot with a 33 Nosler/250AB and more yet with a 300WM....even saw a couple blasted with a 375 H&H.

Less is usually more, if you aren't moose hunting...then more is more. But hey, go ahead and argue with people who've shot a lot of moose.

Well, I just sold my 308 today, which is what I was leaning on taking, so I am back to the drawing board.

There are guys that kill a lot of elk that swear you have to use 300 magnums and I don’t put much weight on their opinions either. Its not that the 300 + magnums don’t work, I just don’t think the difference is material.

Case and point - what is the difference between shooting a moose at 250 yards with a 308 shooting 180 ABs and your 300 wsm shooting 180 ABs? Are you claiming your 300 wsm will kill it better or faster than my 308 using the same bullet at that distance?

 

[slick]

How about this... You buy the rifle you want to shoot and stop answer shopping for someone to agree with you.

 

[Mangata]

Again, bring whatever makes you happy to hunt with because ultimately it is your trip…
Thus far your scorecard;
Harvested AK moose = 0
Hunted moose in AK = 0
Hunted the area that you plan on going = 0
Anything in common with “locals that hunt with AR 15 = 0
Had encounter with brown or grizzly bear = 0
Going to win “close combat” with grizzly or brown bear with 10mm = 0
Listens to suggestions = 0

Total = 0

Advice from people who have hunted AK moose regularly = Priceless

Any chance that you are a millennial???

 

[PredatorSlayer]

How about this... You buy the rifle you want to shoot and stop answer shopping for someone to agree with you.

In my defense I thought it would be more about the set ups and less about my bullet selection. Truth is I don’t care about anybody else’s opinions on the eldms as a big game hunting bullet. I have a lot experience with them. I was thinking it would be more of a I would take the PRC since there may be long range shots or take the 308 because the short barrel and 1-8x scope will be better for brush busting and the likelihood of you taking a shot past 200 yards is slim etc…or maybe point out some things I didn’t think of. But, this is the internet and you get what you pay for. I have obviously been giving this some thought.

Since I sold my 308, I am likely going to replace it with another ridgeline ti in 308 and that is what I am going to take with the trijicon on it.

 

[PredatorSlayer]

Again, bring whatever makes you happy to hunt with because ultimately it is your trip…
Thus far your scorecard;
Harvested AK moose = 0
Hunted moose in AK = 0
Hunted the area that you plan on going = 0
Anything in common with “locals that hunt with AR 15 = 0
Had encounter with brown or grizzly bear = 0
Going to win “close combat” with grizzly or brown bear with 10mm = 0
Listens to suggestions = 0

Total = 0

Advice from people who have hunted AK moose regularly = Priceless

Any chance that you are a millennial???

Whoa whoa whoa - I think we are making some assumptions here…Who said I haven’t had close encounters with grizzlies? Also why I am pretty confident a bolt action rifle is useless if a grizz pops out of nowhere and charges. I have been hunting grizzly country for 30 years.

Also, not a millennium…but as soon as this turned into a magnum and bullet selection debate, I stopped taking advice seriously. I already listed some of the magnums I have owned and killed elk with. I have also used about every popular hunting bullet…call me crazy but I will always go with personal experience over some dude on the internets advice.

Also super humbling to know that my thread was worth your first two comments on this forum. I really appreciate your wisdom and input and you taking the time to share that with me.

 

[PredatorSlayer]

Last September in Alaska - my buddy used my 340 Weatherby Mag to shoot this moose at 300yds. 225gr Hornady handloads going 3000fps at the muzzle. I got to skin it.

The pic is the exit side of the bullet. Complete pass thru

Moose didn’t go 20

Luv me some magnums for moose hunting


View attachment 422166

Were you using the 225gr SSTs?

 

[Mangata]

Whoa whoa whoa - I think we are making some assumptions here…Who said I haven’t had close encounters with grizzlies? Also why I am pretty confident a bolt action rifle is useless if a grizz pops out of nowhere and charges. I have been hunting grizzly country for 30 years.

Also, not a millennium…but as soon as this turned into a magnum and bullet selection debate, I stopped taking advice seriously. I already listed some of the magnums I have owned and killed elk with. I have also used about every popular hunting bullet…call me crazy but I will always go with personal experience over some dude on the internets advice.

Also super humbling to know that my thread was worth your first two comments on this forum. I really appreciate your wisdom and input and you taking the time to share that with me.

You are very welcome!!
If I am not mistaken you sought out the advice of dudes on the internet…

 

[MaraviaDave]

Case and point - what is the difference between shooting a moose at 250 yards with a 308 shooting 180 ABs and your 300 wsm shooting 180 ABs? Are you claiming your 300 wsm will kill it better or faster than my 308 using the same bullet at that distance?

To make an apples-to-apples comparison, we need to use the same bullet loaded in factory ammunition and keep all of the environmental and rifle configurations the same.

Hornady Precision Hunter, 178 ELD-X, 2600 fps, 308 Win
Hornady Precision Hunter, 178 ELD-X, 2960 fps, 300 WM

Terminal Ballistics at 250 yards;
308 Win- 2219 fps, 1946 kinetic energy (ft-lbf)
300 WM- 2544 fps, 2557 kinetic energy (ft-lbf)

The kinetic energy for the 300 WM, in comparison to the 308 Win, is an increase of 31.4%

The increased range equivalency, in regards to kinetic energy. Equates to 465 yards for the 300 WM, compared to 250 yards for the 308 Win.

There's more to consider than the diameter and the weight of the bullet.

You appear to not understand the relationship between velocity and terminal ballistic performance. Along with an inadequate understanding of the principles of bullet construction as it relates to the game you're hunting.

For example; I hunt Coues deer in Sonora Mexico with 30 cal Hornady ELD-Match bullets and Moose in Alaska with 375 cal Barnes LRX bullets.

It's important to select the correct tool for the job. Small calibers and frangible match bullets are not the correct tool for hunting heavily constructed bull moose in Alaska.

 

[OXN939]

I am taking one of the three I listed. Or my 6mm creedmoor that I didn’t. If we are talking about hunting with what a lot of the locals do, I would be using an AR15 wouldnt i?

Very valid. Also agreed with your magnum assessment BTW, and watched a B&C moose killed with a non magnum round last year. If you could switch to a bullet with better penetration, a la TTSX or Hammer Hunter, I'd go 6.5 CM and keep your shots inside 250. If a better projectile for the CM isn't available, I'd go .308

 

[PredatorSlayer]

To make an apples-to-apples comparison, we need to use the same bullet loaded in factory ammunition and keep all of the environmental and rifle configurations the same.

Hornady Precision Hunter, 178 ELD-X, 2600 fps, 308 Win
Hornady Precision Hunter, 178 ELD-X, 2960 fps, 300 WM

Terminal Ballistics at 250 yards;
308 Win- 2219 fps, 1946 kinetic energy (ft-lbf)
300 WM- 2544 fps, 2557 kinetic energy (ft-lbf)

The kinetic energy for the 300 WM, in comparison to the 308 Win, is an increase of 31.4%

The increased range equivalency, in regards to kinetic energy. Equates to 465 yards for the 300 WM, compared to 250 yards for the 308 Win.

There's more to consider than the diameter and the weight of the bullet.

You appear to not understand the relationship between velocity and terminal ballistic performance. Along with an inadequate understanding of the principles of bullet construction as it relates to the game you're hunting.

For example; I hunt Coues deer in Sonora Mexico with 30 cal Hornady ELD-Match bullets and Moose in Alaska with 375 cal Barnes LRX bullets.

It's important to select the correct tool for the job. Small calibers and frangible match bullets are not the correct tool for hunting heavily constructed bull moose in Alaska.

Why is kinetic energy so important to you? People get so caught up in energy they fail to understand that velocity at impact us way more important. As long as you understand the minimum velocity required for your bullet to expand reliably, isn’t that the most important thing?

The moose will not know the difference between my 308 shooting 180 ABS, your 300wsm shooting 180 ABs and your hypothetical 300 wm shooting 180ABs at 250 yards or 500 yards. All will have enough velocity at impact for the Accubonds to expand. Your 300wsm and 300 wm do not have enough kinetic energy to knock the legs out from under it, so don’t pretend like they do.

Also, your example of needing a 30 cal to shoot coues and a 375 to shoot moose makes me believe you are just trying to overcompensate for something…height? Maybe something else? Seriously man…I hope you are just messing with me at this point and not being serious.

 

[MaraviaDave]

Why is kinetic energy so important to you? People get so caught up in energy they fail to understand that velocity at impact us way more important. As long as you understand the minimum velocity required for your bullet to expand reliably, isn’t that the most important thing?

Also, your example of needing a 30 cal to shoot coues and a 375 to shoot moose makes me believe you are just trying to overcompensate for something…height? Maybe something else? Seriously man…I hope you are just messing with me at this point and not being serious.

You must not understand that velocity is part of the calculation for kinetic energy (KE). Yes, most hunting bullets have a recommended minimum impact velocity, for expansion initiation. However, the KE calculation squares the velocity...so, you're not going to get one without the other... the calculation also multiplies bullet weight. In simple terms velocity relates to bullet expansion and KE relates to penetration.

Having said this, kinetic energy may not be the best calculation for terminal performance. I chose to use it in my last post, in an effort to make things simple for you to understand. Based primarily on your apparently poor reading comprehension and lack of basic understanding of things related to this topic.

Please, slow down and stop being so reactionary. Take a few minutes to learn something. I'm pasting a post below, I wrote in another thread. It's more in depth than simply KE and velocity. Hopefully, you can use the information to increase your understanding.

**************************************************************
From my perspective, this article BULLET “ENERGY” (ft-lbs) VERSUS “TKO” EFFECTIVENESS ON BIG GAME (buffalobore.com) makes a good case that the measurement used for bullet energy (Kinetic Energy) by most hunters may not be the best for quantifying terminal ballistic effectiveness on larger sized big game animals.

A couple of key points from the article in regards to KE are as follows;
1. First, this formula uses velocity squared, so it will always give higher values to lighter, faster bullets and lighter, faster bullets are meaningless to an 800 lb. bull elk or more especially to a 2,000 lb. stomping mad Cape buffalo.
2. Second, this calculation ignores bullet diameter, which is very important as the quarry gets bigger and tougher.
3. Third, this calculation ignores bullet shape..i.e. in general terms; a round nosed solid/non-expanding bullet will do less terminal damage than a flat nosed solid bullet.
4. Fourth, it ignores bullet construction.

Here's an example from the article that illustrates the point;
"As one example of the flawed ft-lbs formula, let’s look at one very early and popular good old standby 45-70 load compared to a modern 22-250 load. The early 45-70 gained much of its big game killing fame by pushing a 405gr. lead round nosed bullet @ 1,350 fps with black powder….this load generates 1,638 ft-lbs of energy……The typical 22-250 load of a 50gr. bullet moving @ 3,850 fps generates a slightly higher number of 1,645 ft-lbs, but let me ask, which load would you want to hunt grizzly with?…..or better, which load would you want to try and stop a charging grizzly with?"

The author presents the Taylor Knock Out (TKO) formula as a better alternative to KE for measuring cartridge/bullet effectiveness, on heavily constructed game animals, in comparison to less heavily constructed game animals. However, there is an application for KE, which he explains;
So, where/when are kinetic energy numbers meaningful when applied to kill mammals? I believe that with super thin skinned, lightly constructed animals that weigh under 200 lbs., kinetic energy has a meaningful application, but remember that those kinetic energy numbers are still coupled with other factors that we cannot give a value to, such as bullet construction (mushrooming, fragmentation, secondary projectiles such as bone fragments, state of mind of the mammal being shot, etc., etc., etc.) and depth of penetration, etc. Thin-skinned smaller animals like whitetail deer, humans, coyotes, etc. are all susceptible to the effect of faster lighter bullets. These types of animals do not require super deep penetration to be killed, so kinetic energy numbers have meaningful application, but not so with buffalo, grizzly, moose, etc. From a great deal of personal experience, I can tell you that the above 22-250 load would literally explode a 4 lb. Rock Chuck hit within normal shooting distances, but the old 45-70 load would just make a big hole in a Rock Chuck……..so the Kinetic energy calculation is more meaningful with the small mammals, than with giant mammals.

***please read the original article, by clicking the link above, for full context***

Recognizing that there are other energy calculations out there, each one having supporters and detractors, I built spreadsheets to compare the rifle/bullet combinations I hunt with, using the various formulas. Doing this has helped me become aware of the the biases (e.g. velocity, bullet weight sectional density, cross-sectional area, etc), considered for each formula.

Of course there are things not accounted for in the formulas. Specifically bullet construction (frangible vs controlled expansion) and shot placement. Shooting a moose quartering towards you, requires more from a bullet / impact energy / terminal ballistic perspective, than center punching the lungs of a broadside bull.

In addition to helping make more informed decisions about cartridge selection for different hunting applications. I also believe the value of these formulas are to assist in making comparisons between bullet options in a given cartridge type.....in regards to choices of bullet weight and efficiency (BC) and the subsequent impact velocities at distance.

If you'd like to make your own comparisons, use the formulas listed below;

Kinetic Energy (ft-lbs)
(velocity)^2*(bullet weight) / 450440

Optimum Game Weight (lbs)
(velocity)^3*(bullet weight)*1.5*10^-12

Taylor K.O. Factor
(bullet weight)*(velocity)*(bullet sectional density) / 7000
**Bullet SD= ((bullet weight)/7000)) / ((bullet diameter)^2)

Momentum *ft-lbs)
(bullet weight)*(velocity) / 6990.78

Killing Power Score
(kinetic energy)*(bullet sectional density)*(bullet cross sectional area)
**Bullet SD= ((bullet weight)/7000)) / ((bullet diameter)^2)
**Bullet CSA= ((bullet diameter) / 2)^2*3.1416

**************************************************************

Oh, by the way, to answer your last question......yes, I am compensating through my caliber/bullet selection.

I'm 4'12" and have been blessed with an incredibly small weaner!!

 

[UTJL]

Have you thought about the effectiveness of your chosen cartridge and bullet if you make a bad shot?

We all know you can kill a moose with a stick bow if you shoot it in the lungs/heart. Likewise you can most certainly kill elk and moose with a 6.5 PRC by shooting them in the lungs/heart.

But what if the bull is quartered to you or you don’t make a great shot? Are you certain you can penetrate through the shoulder into the vitals?

Think about what cartridge and bullet will be the most lethal if something doesn’t go right. We owe it to the animals we kill to minimize the odds that something goes wrong and they receive a slow painful death.

 

[diamond10x]

OP, I think what everyone is trying to get across is that you need enough bullet for adequate penetration. An Alaska Yukon bull is 30”+ wide at the shoulders 1600+lbs, ribs that are 3” wide. This is an animal 3x bigger than a bull elk, and I can guarantee you can’t imagine how big and heavy of an animal they are until you walk up on a dead one.

you can kill a moose with a 6.5 any day, my cousin killed his with a .264wm last year, but your bullet selection should be a bit more meticulous and hear out people who have hunted moose more than 99% of people ever will.

Another thing to think about to, you only Punch one lung and not able to get both, it’s going to take 30min to an hour for them to deflate and the bull to die. In that time he can walk right into the middle of a lake, pond, or river and now you have double the work of an already extremely laborious task. Those scapulas are no joke either. I put a 250gr Sierra game king spbt through one this past year and all it did was put a whole in it and keep going, one would think it would have broke it but it didn’t. Could have just been where I hit it but the point is they’re a heavy boned animal.

 

[PredatorSlayer]

Have you thought about the effectiveness of your chosen cartridge and bullet if you make a bad shot?

We all know you can kill a moose with a stick bow if you shoot it in the lungs/heart. Likewise you can most certainly kill elk and moose with a 6.5 PRC by shooting them in the lungs/heart.

But what if the bull is quartered to you or you don’t make a great shot? Are you certain you can penetrate through the shoulder into the vitals?

Think about what cartridge and bullet will be the most lethal if something doesn’t go right. We owe it to the animals we kill to minimize the odds that something goes wrong and they receive a slow painful death.

Great points - I understand the limitations of my bullet and cartridge selections. I have always been willing to pass on game if I don’t get the shot I feel comfortable with. I am a behind the shoulder guy with the bergers and eldms. I’ll wait for that shot or not take it at all. I practice year round out to 1250 yards and am a decent marksman. It is my understanding that more often than not moose are shot at 300 yards or less. This isn’t a once in a lifetime hunt for me, so I can pass if I need to. Like I mentioned, its a DIY boat hunting trip with some fishing and adventure and a couple moose tags. If we have a good time we will likely turn this into a biannual or annual trip.

Even if this was a once in a lifetime hunt, I wouldnt be taking a magnum. I have explored and experimented with several different monos, bonded bullets etc. i hate them. I don’t like pass throughs and blood trails. I want a bullet that is going to penetrate a few inches and blow up like a grenade in their vitals with no exit - thats my preference, I know its not everybody’s cup of tea, but I haven’t had animals go more than a step or two since I started using eldms and bergers and putting them behind the shoulder.

 

[PredatorSlayer]

OP, I think what everyone is trying to get across is that you need enough bullet for adequate penetration. An Alaska Yukon bull is 30”+ wide at the shoulders 1600+lbs, ribs that are 3” wide. This is an animal 3x bigger than a bull elk, and I can guarantee you can’t imagine how big and heavy of an animal they are until you walk up on a dead one.

you can kill a moose with a 6.5 any day, my cousin killed his with a .264wm last year, but your bullet selection should be a bit more meticulous and hear out people who have hunted moose more than 99% of people ever will.

Another thing to think about to, you only Punch one lung and not able to get both, it’s going to take 30min to an hour for them to deflate and the bull to die. In that time he can walk right into the middle of a lake, pond, or river and now you have double the work of an already extremely laborious task. Those scapulas are no joke either. I put a 250gr Sierra game king spbt through one this past year and all it did was put a whole in it and keep going, one would think it would have broke it but it didn’t. Could have just been where I hit it but the point is they’re a heavy boned animal.

Now that this has turned into a bullet debate, I’ll just point out that there is substantial evidence that bullets like TMKs, Bergers, ELDMs can effectively kill big animals like elk and moose. You may not like it, you may not choose to use them, but thousands of hunters do successfully every year. Lots of guys on this site and sites like LRH have picture evidence of wound channels and exits holes. I have killed elk with eldms from 50-800 yards, one shot kills. They are an awesome bullet. I think everybody should give try them before they claim it isn’t enough bullet. Just google bergers and moose in Alaska. Tons of success stories.