Which magnum rifle

Solid advice. Part of this and why he has been shooting my 257 wby is because his 7-08 isn't extremely accurate (very short crack barrel). So I think a new rifle he likes and is an upgrade will further his interest in hunting and shooting.
Gotcha. An inaccurate rifle (or one that's just generally not enjoyable to shoot) is not going to be conducive to good, focused, productive practice.

I would for sure avoid brakes. My first set of hearing aids just arrived, due in large part as far as I can tell to shooting brakes rifles. Not many (but not zero) shots without ear pro while hunting, and also many for sure with just earbuds or the three row rubber around-the-neck plugs. Mostly good muffs and often doubled up though. It really doesn't take much exposure to them to cause damage. Mild loss in my right ear, upper end of moderate loss in the left. I'm 43 years old.

Shooting steel and watching impacts through the scope is so much more fun (and instant feedback for productive practice). Paper is very useful, but you're probably not going to be watching the holes appear in paper (and even if you are it doesn't tickle the lizard part of the brain in the same way). Adding steel at distance is something that will drive the enthusiasm for practice.
 
I've read several "problem" threads with Bergara rifles which concerns me. The issues your friends had were accuracy related? or other issues with the rifles?
Accuracy issues. I'm a fairly competent gun plumber (former machinist and millwright) and checked the standard points of issue when rifles won't shoot. Changed to a known good scope on one rifle (300 PRC) and still couldn't get acceptable accuracy. The 7mm PRC rifle we didn't even fuss with. The owner paid a gunsmith a bunch of money to have a ready to go system and he didn't want me to do anything to as it was going back to the gunsmith to get returned. Both guns had factory muzzle brakes.

I let one guy use my 6.5CM and the other use my 223. Both shot better and further with those rifles than they did with the big guns. When you are going 5 for 5 on a 12 steel at 500 yards with a $500 rifle chambered in 223, you start rethinking your choices in life. The guy that used my 6.5 Creedmoor hunted with me every day so I left my suppressor on it for him to use since he can't own one in the state he lives in. We shot coyotes and rocks in the middle of the day and he never quit smiling and raving about how fun it was to shoot this $500 suppressed 6.5 Creedmoor shooting $1.00 per round ammo. (Howa 1500 Carbon Stalker 6.5CM that was on sale at Sportsmans Warehouse for $498 shooting 140gr AAC Sabre Blade Black Tips) Although he didn't fill any tags, my buddy had a great time even with his rifle system going down on him on day one.

My buddy that borrowed the 223 filled his deer tag and never felt under gunned when coming from a 300 PRC due to our practicing at 300 and 500 yards with it. He went home and bought himself a 223 bolt action to be able to shoot more. He sent me a video of himself going 6 for 10 with his 223 on a 10" steel at 750 yards last year. His practice is showing and will only get better.

My son (15) has a 223, a 6.5 Grendel, and a 7mm-08 that are "his" with access to lots of bigger cartridges (6.5 PRC, 280AI, 7mm PRC, 7mm Backcountry, 300WM, 338WM) . When we go hunting or to ahoot steel, he chooses to take his 223 with 77gr TMK's around 7 out 10 times. If we are going for elk he wants to borrow my 6.5 PRC or takes his 7mm-08. His 6.5 Grendel gets lots of target use and a few deer hunts but the 223 sees the most use. Sometimes bigger isn't better.

Jay
 
Solid advice. Part of this and why he has been shooting my 257 wby is because his 7-08 isn't extremely accurate (very short crack barrel). So I think a new rifle he likes and is an upgrade will further his interest in hunting and shooting.
I know it’s a different option than you originally asked but would he be open to a 257wby like yours? It’s a magnum as well obviously smaller than a 7prc. But then if you decide to get into reloading makes it easier to reload for multiple guns that are the same cartridge. Just a thought. Not trying to talk you out of anything just another option to consider. I’ve always thought the 257wby was a cool cartridge.
 
if you want your kid to grow in his skillset as a rifleman under field conditions, recoil isn't your friend, and somewhere around maybe the 6.5PRC level of recoil, the extra power a teenager might think he wants, starts to get counterproductive, and I would place large wagers on your kid, a year from now with a 7PRC or .300PRC level of new rifle, being outshot by some other kid with a moderately fast 6mm or 6.5mm
This 100%.

Since teenagers want to be badass, show him some of the pictures from the 223 or 6mm kill threads, maybe then he'll think a 223, 243, or 6.5CM is cool.

Or, borrow someone's unbraked magnum and have him shoot a 40+rd course of fire with it. Call it the "smoke the whole pack" strategy haha.
 
My kids and I do a lot of 0-500 shooting in the last few months with a rifle that's a hair too small for me (it's a youth model and I'm 6') and is probably a 1.250-1.5moa shooter. But the light recoil allows all 4 of us to shoot the same rifle.

Would I want a rifle that was capable of better than 2moa mechanical accuracy? Yes. I'll freely concede that. As for fitment, I've found that too long a stock is a hindrance to my kids but too short (by perhaps an inch?) isn't a serious hindrance to me, at least with a lower recoiling rifle.

My overall stance here isn't necessarily that a new rifle is bad - everyone likes new toys and you know what you can afford better than we do and you know the limits of his existing stuff - my point is just that buying a magnum rifle might be fun in a sense, and there's merit in that, I've had my share of recoil fun over the years and grew up with a .378 Weatherby and .416 Rigby at my disposal for a lot of years - but if you want your kid to grow in his skillset as a rifleman under field conditions, recoil isn't your friend, and somewhere around maybe the 6.5PRC level of recoil, the extra power a teenager might think he wants, starts to get counterproductive, and I would place large wagers on your kid, a year from now with a 7PRC or .300PRC level of new rifle, being outshot by some other kid with a moderately fast 6mm or 6.5mm.

Let your son read this thread. Then give him a few days to think it over. Then do what he wants. Buying him too much recoil won't likely ruin his life. I've certainly made worse mistakes and life will go on.
I can 100% agree with everything you said here and is the kind of real world experience and advice I was looking for. Not sure why we had to go over the hills and through the woods to get there lol. One of my favorite rifles to shoot is a Tikka 7-08 compact even though its "too small" for me. He shoots it well but doesn't like the feel of the rifle so his younger brother shoots it. He's 5'11" with long arms and legs even though he is just turning 15.

It's like people are forgetting this is the beginning of his hunting/shooting. This is likely not his last rifle. He's probably not gonna choose the most practical and absolute best rifle/round. He's 15. I have no issue with his choice as long as it's not gonna hurt him. I did the exact same thing around his age. I'm just not familiar with the 7 PRC in real world applications. We talked again last night and I think he's on board with the 6.5 PRC. Just gotta decide if the HMR is a descent choice for the rifle.
 
I can 100% agree with everything you said here and is the kind of real world experience and advice I was looking for. Not sure why we had to go over the hills and through the woods to get there lol. One of my favorite rifles to shoot is a Tikka 7-08 compact even though its "too small" for me. He shoots it well but doesn't like the feel of the rifle so his younger brother shoots it. He's 5'11" with long arms and legs even though he is just turning 15.

It's like people are forgetting this is the beginning of his hunting/shooting. This is likely not his last rifle. He's probably not gonna choose the most practical and absolute best rifle/round. He's 15. I have no issue with his choice as long as it's not gonna hurt him. I did the exact same thing around his age. I'm just not familiar with the 7 PRC in real world applications. We talked again last night and I think he's on board with the 6.5 PRC. Just gotta decide if the HMR is a descent choice for the rifle.
I would 100% go with a 6.5 PRC in a Tikka T3x. If he likes the chassis look/feel of HMR, you can drop the Tikka into a KRG Bravo Chassis which has the same/similar feel to the HMR. You could do the Bravo Chassis as a birthday or other present if he shoots the rifle with the standard stock and decides he wants something different. The price difference between the Tikka and a extra stock and the base Bergara HMR is negligible.

Jay


 
I know it’s a different option than you originally asked but would he be open to a 257wby like yours? It’s a magnum as well obviously smaller than a 7prc. But then if you decide to get into reloading makes it easier to reload for multiple guns that are the same cartridge. Just a thought. Not trying to talk you out of anything just another option to consider. I’ve always thought the 257wby was a cool cartridge.
He probably would but he really likes the Bergara HMR rifle. My Weatherby doesn't have a factory stock on it. I think he's ok with a 6.5 PRC at this point and I will likely get a suppressor for it. Just worried the HMR may not be the best choice after reading some of the reviews. I wonder what percentage of the HMR's sold have issues
 
I would 100% go with a 6.5 PRC in a Tikka T3x. If he likes the chassis look/feel of HMR, you can drop the Tikka into a KRG Bravo Chassis which has the same/similar feel to the HMR. You could do the Bravo Chassis as a birthday or other present if he shoots the rifle with the standard stock and decides he wants something different. The price difference between the Tikka and a extra stock and the base Bergara HMR is negligible.

Jay


That's a reasonable compromise, and I can appreciate the point that he isn't stuck with this as his last rifle ever.

I'd also look at the stocky's basic vertical grip stock as a light but good option for a stock upgrade if you think it would help. I will freely admit that the basic Tikka stock is ugly and less than ideal even with the vertical grip, but I darned sure can't point to impacts on steel and make a case for swapping it.

Also, there's the rokstock. I've never touched one but absolutely think the negative comb would do as intended to help mitigate the effects of recoil.
 
I would 100% go with a 6.5 PRC in a Tikka T3x. If he likes the chassis look/feel of HMR, you can drop the Tikka into a KRG Bravo Chassis which has the same/similar feel to the HMR. You could do the Bravo Chassis as a birthday or other present if he shoots the rifle with the standard stock and decides he wants something different. The price difference between the Tikka and a extra stock and the base Bergara HMR is negligible.

Jay


I must be missing something. Google search shows the KRG bravo at 899$ I see the Echo at 299$
The HMR is on sale at a little over 900$ right now
 
It's like people are forgetting this is the beginning of his hunting/shooting. This is likely not his last rifle. He's probably not gonna choose the most practical and absolute best rifle/round. He's 15. I have no issue with his choice as long as it's not gonna hurt him.
Exactly. This is the WORST time to get him shooting a hard recoiling magnum. He will develop bad habits now faster than any time in his shooting career, and they will take the longest to train back out. Even 6.5PRC is pushing it IMO, but a suppressor will make it tolerable.

Tikka for sure, no match for reliability, action, and trigger quality even up to 2 or more times the cost. Barrels are pretty good, some extremely accurate some just ok, but more than adequate for hunting. I like the factory stock with the barrel channel dremeled out, flat forend, vertical grip, adjustable cheek piece, limbsaver recoil pad. Should be sub 1k with all this. Then UM Tikka rings and level, and a known reliable FFP MIL scope like a SWFA. A friend just built this exact package in 243 Win for his dad for an xmas present to replace his 40 year old 7RM.

Or, the Sauer 100 is super on sale on euro right now, and is well regarded.
 
I only have hands on experience with one Bergara but my buddy bought the carbon barreled one that looks like the HMR in 300wm. He had problems from the begining with it. He bought 100rds to break it in and started working through them. With factory hornady ammo, it would stick cases in the chamber. He ended up breaking the bolt off of it as well and had to weld it back on.

He went through hell with their customer service and at one point, the CS manager told him "What do you expect? It's just a factory rifle." It went back to them twice before they rebarreled it. It was so bad, he had a cleaning rod in his case to push out spent brass that wouldn't extract.

On the rifle front, after reading all of this, get him a 300wm if that's what he really wants. It won't be conducive to practicing though just because of recoil. I think the 6.5prc is a solid choice here that accomplishes a lot of goals. Either way, invest in at least two suppressors, one for him and one for you. If they're going on bolt guns, it's hard to beat the Diligent Defense Enticers for cost and performance. Pay up for the titanium cans because it sounds like you're going to have some longer barrels and the weight is not fun on a barrel that long.

Good luck man.
 
I only have hands on experience with one Bergara but my buddy bought the carbon barreled one that looks like the HMR in 300wm. He had problems from the begining with it. He bought 100rds to break it in and started working through them. With factory hornady ammo, it would stick cases in the chamber. He ended up breaking the bolt off of it as well and had to weld it back on.

He went through hell with their customer service and at one point, the CS manager told him "What do you expect? It's just a factory rifle." It went back to them twice before they rebarreled it. It was so bad, he had a cleaning rod in his case to push out spent brass that wouldn't extract.

On the rifle front, after reading all of this, get him a 300wm if that's what he really wants. It won't be conducive to practicing though just because of recoil. I think the 6.5prc is a solid choice here that accomplishes a lot of goals. Either way, invest in at least two suppressors, one for him and one for you. If they're going on bolt guns, it's hard to beat the Diligent Defense Enticers for cost and performance. Pay up for the titanium cans because it sounds like you're going to have some longer barrels and the weight is not fun on a barrel that long.

Good luck man.
Does it seem the CF barrels are having issues in alot of rifles?
 
Does it seem the CF barrels are having issues in alot of rifles?
No clue. My experience was a sample size of 1 but I did find other reports online of the same issue. Can't say if the others were with the carbon barrel version or not.
 
Does it seem the CF barrels are having issues in alot of rifles?
Manufacturing process is more complex and therefore has more opportunities for errors or irregularities to influence the final product. Also carbon barrels are not in practice significantly lighter than metal. They limit your options for chopping length in the future. And they don't deal with heat near as well as metal barrels. Purely a looks thing IMO. I'd take a thinner profile metal barrel all day long.
 
Got a recommendation on a good brake?
Haven't read the whole thread, but Seekins offers a few good options for around $50 bucks. Mine has 4 ports. Shooting last year's Havak Element in .300 WM and can keep target in scope and see hits. Very little muzzle rise. Total gun weight with scope and bipod is right at 8 lbs and it kicks less than my son's .270. The only problem (I'm sure you know) is sound. He's gotta have plugs in the field, double ear pro at the range.
I switched to a SilencrCO ScytheTi suppressor and it's a dream to shoot (maybe even less recoil than the brake) except a little more muzzle jump. Hopefully I'll be able to address this when their directional muzzle brake comes back in stock.
 
Not familiar with a 280AI and I haven’t gotten into reloading yet
Great cartridge that PO Ackley improved by blowing out the case and increasing the shoulder angle to 40 degrees. It holds a wee bit more powder than the 280 Remington case from which is came and is really close on the heals of the 7mm Remington magnum if not stepping on them! Recoil is slightly less than the 7mm and rifles hold one more round in a typical magazine, 4 versus 3 rounds for the 7mm.
 
So, @Dfou , it's great you came in here and asked these questions. If nobody has yet offered you a welcome to the forum, then please consider this a warm and hearty welcome.

Having been on here quite a bit myself the last couple of years, I recognize a lot of the people in this thread and remember a lot about what they've shared regarding their shooting habits, capabilities, fails, successes, etc, over that period. These same guys who might seem like a jumbled mashup of faceless dudes on the internet, to me are, "Oh, the guy who hammered a buck at 630 yds, uphill, seated, resting his gun on a backpack", or "the guy who goes through 1000 rounds a month of centerfire rifle ammo across different cartridges", etc.

Here's a couple of things I can share that might help set the context for the responses you're getting:

1) Every single one of these guys commenting here, is giving you the most sincere, experienced answers we can give, genuinely trying to help, not looking down on you or your son in any way.

2) There's at least 4 in here I can safely say shoot over 3000-5000 centerfire rifle rounds each, annually. Some do more. I personally do about 5k. Just about anyone giving you a detailed answer is going through at least 1000 annually - all of whom share a very strong focus on field-realistic training and riflery competence for hunting realities.

3) Virtually none of us shoot magnums...anymore. Almost all of us used to. Those few commenting in your thread here who do, usually only do so with it as a specialized tool for very specific, uncommon purposes. This is a pattern of success that leaves clues based on high volumes of range and field experience.

4) Because the guys are so focused on field-realities and field competence, we may have a different understanding of what "proficient" would be, so please take that into account. For most of us, minimum proficiency is going to be something approximating being able to hit 8" vitals out to 300yds, in any field-expedient position, in any environmental conditions - rain, wind, snow, sundown, sunup, high-angle, shooting prone off a backpack, to something weird like being crouched low with a broken branch acting like a monopod as the only support. This is a far more difficult standard of proficiency than one would suspect, and it's made a full order of magnitude more difficult with a magnum.

5) Across time and people and experience, almost all of us shoot high volumes of .223 as a trainer, and only escalate cartridge size to the point we can keep that same level of proficiency. It's like starting with training wheels, and just removing them, and then maybe bumping up to a BMX bike...before hopping on a Kawasaki/Magnum. Consequently, few of us shoot anything bigger than 6CM, 6.5CM, or 6.5PRC on any North American big game - and yet we also all know that .223 with a good tipped match bullet will kill anything on the continent. There is over 600 pages of thousands of posts of proof, showing the documented photos of this. It's definitely worthwhile taking your time to read through this.

Please don't take any of this as an attack on you or your son - it's simply the best information we can provide, and it's being given sincerely, trying to help. And every single one of us here has had our worldviews challenged with all of this, especially when we first jump into this community. Much of it is very much against common, accepted wisdom.

So in my first response here in your post, please pardon the efficiency with which I shared the info I did - it wasn't meant to come across as jerkish or as parenting advice. It's just stuff I - and we - have seen our entire lives, and often went through ourselves as kids or parents, myself included.

One piece of advice I will give: If your son is really intent on a .300 Win Mag, bite the bullet and buy him 2 guns. A .223 Tikka, and a .300 Win Mag of his choice. Then set the standards of performance, with plenty of ammo for each to do with as he so chooses. It will be fairly evident for him, personally, where the path to success will be, fairly quickly.
 
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