Which Bullets to use? ELD-m "Murder bullets" for everything?

[Liftman101]

I listen to Ryan talk about Murder Bullets. Most of my guns shoot ELD-m the most accurately. Is it really that easy? It would sure save money, space around the house and my time to just use ELD-ms.

My plan:
.223/5.56 77gr TMK or 73 gr ELD-m
6mm ARC 108 gr ELD-m AR rifle with a thermal for hogs
6mm Creedmoor 108 or 109 ELD-m plus some 115gr Dtacs from UM to try
6UM (When I get it) 109 ELD-m and 115gr Dtac
6.5 Creedmoor 140 ELD-m
6.5 PRC 147 ELD-m plus some 156gr EOL to try
308 178gr ELD-m I never shoot 308 anymore but my friend does. I am going to upgrade him from 150gr Core Lokt

These last 3 rifles were purchased recently because I was bored and will eventually be going to Africa next year to hunt antelope and maybe Warthogs. No dangerous game. Bigger calibers to keep the PH happy. They will never get used until right before we go.

30-06 178gr ELD-m For reference the rifle likes Winchester factory 190gr AB LR better
300 PRC 225gr ELD-m
375 H&H Hornady 300gr DGX or maybe some Barnes TSX. Just for fun I ordered a barrel for my Encore I plan to use to make a Hobbit Rifle,

Comments
I see some people say the ELD-m might not be the best for close range as they explode at high velocity. Most of what we shoot here in Florida are Whitetail and Hogs at 150 yards or less. Does that information affect the choice of an ELD-m?

I don't do necropsies or wound analysis but the only real outrageous devastating wound channels I have ever noticed were from a 6.5 Creedmoor shooting a 140gr Nosler Partition and from a 30-06 shooting a Buffalo Bore 150gr Spitzer softpoint at 3100 fps

 

[ljalberta]

You’re good to go with the ELDMs. If you want to tinker and experiment, you can, but no need.

 

[huntnful]

So far I've killed big game with the 225 ELDM, 180 ELDM, 108 ELDM and the 80 ELDM. They've proven themselves enough to me that I have no desire to change at all. They shoot accurately, without a ton of work, and they kill extremely well. I have some copper bullets just because I have to, but I shoot, and will continue to shoot ELDM's for everything else.

 

[Weldor]

I've had the eld-x destroy a ton of meat out of a 6mm CM, switching to eld-m to see if there is a difference. So far for me plain old flat base soft points work great. I hate bloodshot meat. Flat base works good at those ranges. Question does your PH like the 6.5 prc? Thinking of going over, for plains with my prc.

 

[Liftman101]

A 6.5 PRC was my plan until I decided to order a 6UM. Any excuse for a new rifle. The PH likes 30 Cal preferably at least 30-06 for larger animals but they will allow you to take anything because of all the shooting at smaller game. They used a .22 WMR last time to shoot lots of small critters. I will see what he thinks when I want to shoot a 6UM at something big. If Ryan was not joking, he plans to shoot a giraffe with a 6UM next month. That will be a test.

 

[Liftman101]

I have never killed anything with an ELD-m. Mostly ELD-x and random hunting bullets. I always buy ELD-m to test my rifles and to shoot at the range anyway so this would simplify my life.

FYI, my 6 Creedmoor is my go to rifle and it loves the Sierra Gamechanger TGK 100gr. They have worked well. IMO better than the ELD-x.

 

[Juan_ID]

As has already been stated, I don’t think there’s any reason not to use the eldm in whatever size you need. Not a large sample but we’ve killed 7 or 8 mule deer and elk with the 147 out of a 6.5 creed. 1 deer with a 108 anywhere from 55-550+ yards with zero issues. They’ve all died very quickly. Planning to use 80 or 88 a fair bit this year on some deer and elk.

 

[pacoalcracker]

It going to be interesting on how Ryan makes out shooting a giraffe with the 6UM. The bulls are VERY large, VERY thick and pretty difficult to put on the ground. Much larger than an Alaskan moose and much tougher. I'm pretty sure that unless its a head shot its not going to happen with one shot and they do not react to a bullet from anything very quickly. Ive seen them take more than 5 shots at close range in the vitals with a 500 S&W and it took awhile to get him to the ground. They are not elk. I sure hope he isnt using murder bullets.

 

[Cactus kid]

It going to be interesting on how Ryan makes out shooting a giraffe with the 6UM. The bulls are VERY large, VERY thick and pretty difficult to put on the ground. Much larger than an Alaskan moose and much tougher. I'm pretty sure that unless its a head shot its not going to happen with one shot and they do not react to a bullet from anything very quickly. Ive seen them take more than 5 shots at close range in the vitals with a 500 S&W and it took awhile to get him to the ground. They are not elk. I sure hope he isnt using murder bullets.

I have zero african experience, but my understanding of the big bores is they mostly shoot solids and dont really expand- the exact opposite of what ELD-Ms do. I know of one infamous african hunting Texan who prefers the big rifles to shoot the little stuff (think the tiny 10) because of the small amount of damage the bullets cause.

I could be 100% wrong though.

 

[Harvey_NW]

It going to be interesting on how Ryan makes out shooting a giraffe with the 6UM. The bulls are VERY large, VERY thick and pretty difficult to put on the ground. Much larger than an Alaskan moose and much tougher. I'm pretty sure that unless its a head shot its not going to happen with one shot and they do not react to a bullet from anything very quickly. Ive seen them take more than 5 shots at close range in the vitals with a 500 S&W and it took awhile to get him to the ground. They are not elk. I sure hope he isnt using murder bullets.

That's the big misunderstanding, a 500 S&W with flat base or solids punches just that, a .5" hole. The 108 ELD-M out of a 6mm will have probably a 4-6"+ diameter tunnel of destruction. They have a heart and lungs just like every other mammal and if you destroy a large portion of those tissues, they die.

 

[762 ULTRAMAGA]

I listen to Ryan talk about Murder Bullets.
Comments
I see some people say the ELD-m might not be the best for close range as they explode at high velocity. Most of what we shoot here in Florida are Whitetail and Hogs at 150 yards or less. Does that information affect the choice of an ELD-m?

I don't do necropsies or wound analysis but the only real outrageous devastating wound channels I have ever noticed were from a 6.5 Creedmoor shooting a 140gr Nosler Partition and from a 30-06 shooting a Buffalo Bore 150gr Spitzer softpoint at 3100 fps

They're definitely an effective killer and I use them almost exclusively, however they will absolutely grenade at high velocity on heavy muscle or bone.
I've seen it personally with 147s on elk and deer.
For close range where a shoulder shot might be the only option I like Bergers better, they penetrate deeper before expanding

 

[MattB]

That's the big misunderstanding, a 500 S&W with flat base or solids punches just that, a .5" hole. The 108 ELD-M out of a 6mm will have probably a 4-6"+ diameter tunnel of destruction. They have a heart and lungs just like every other mammal and if you destroy a large portion of those tissues, they die.

The issue is the bullet has to get to the heart and lungs to do damage. I get the sense that some don’t understand their size and composition, which is why many African PH’s suggest the .375 H&H as a sensible minimum.

 

[diverc18]

I have taken multiple deer with 147s this year as close as 15 yards out to 360 and haven’t had any issues. Also took 2 with 143 eldx at 50 yards or so. I do prefer the eldms but that is just my experience.

 

[AZ_Hunter]

A giraffe… haha. I want to see the necropsy.

 

[Harvey_NW]

The issue is the bullet has to get to the heart and lungs to do damage. I get the sense that some don’t understand their size and composition, which is why many African PH’s suggest the .375 H&H as a sensible minimum.

The lungs touch the inside of the rib cage, and a 147 ELD-M out of a 6.5 Creed penetrated ~16" into ballistic gel after going through plywood per Hornadys published results. Even if you squared up a rib bone, it's still doing massive damage to vital tissue.

 

[MattB]

The lungs touch the inside of the rib cage, and a 147 ELD-M out of a 6.5 Creed penetrated ~16" into ballistic gel after going through plywood per Hornadys published results. Even if you squared up a rib bone, it's still doing massive damage to vital tissue.

That'll get you half-way through an animal that can approach 4 feet wide across the chest. How do you think a 6mm bullet that weighs ~25% less will fare?

 

[Harvey_NW]

That'll get you half-way through an animal that can approach 4 feet wide across the chest. How do you think a 6mm bullet that weighs ~25% less will fare?

Considering a 6.5 Creed MV is 2700ish and 6UM is 3300 or something obnoxious, I bet it's going to be absolutely destructive at reasonable distances, especially if it doesn't hit bone on entry. My point is the big caliber debate is mostly fuddlore based on irrelevant metrics like energy. Those PH's recommending 375 H&H are usually shooting something like hard cast or solids because pEnEtRaTiOn. Would you rather shove a 3/8" rod all the way through the chest cavity, or a pop can with razor blades 16"+?

If you really want it to die, load up a 285gr ELD-M in a 33XC..

 

[ljalberta]

That'll get you half-way through an animal that can approach 4 feet wide across the chest. How do you think a 6mm bullet that weighs ~25% less will fare?

The width of the actual tissue of an elk shoulder seems to be around 8”ish inches if I had to guess. Then another couple and you’re right in the boiler room.

Based on seeing some pretty darn large critters killed with the classic .243, I think it does just swimmingly.

 

[Reburn]

The issue is the bullet has to get to the heart and lungs to do damage. I get the sense that some don’t understand their size and composition, which is why many African PH’s suggest the .375 H&H as a sensible minimum.

In some countries and states is legally required. Its all ok if you make a good shot. The problem would be in the PH and your liability if someone gets killed. And yes people get F-ed up every year. Occasionally someone dies. Seems like everyone over there that hunts knows someone that got stomped by a buff.

I'm not saying it wont work though. I would rather see @Ryan Avery shoot a buff with an ELD-M first.

 

[MattB]

The width of the actual tissue of an elk shoulder seems to be around 8”ish inches if I had to guess. Then another couple and you’re right in the boiler room.

Based on seeing some pretty darn large critters killed with the classic .243, I think it does just swimmingly.

An average male giraffe is about 2,400# and a really large male can approach 4,000#. Not sure what elk has to do with that, unless you are talking about putting a few elk side by side like milk jugs to see how many a .243 will pass through?

Considering a 6.5 Creed MV is 2700ish and 6UM is 3300 or something obnoxious, I bet it's going to be absolutely destructive at reasonable distances, especially if it doesn't hit bone on entry. My point is the big caliber debate is mostly fuddlore based on irrelevant metrics like energy. Those PH's recommending 375 H&H are usually shooting something like hard cast or solids because pEnEtRaTiOn. Would you rather shove a 3/8" rod all the way through the chest cavity, or a pop can with razor blades 16"+?

If you really want it to die, load up a 285gr ELD-M in a 33XC..

On a giraffe which can be 3.5 feet across the chest, the 3/8” rod for sure. I don’t think you are considering that 16”of penetration on a giraffe very likely results in only getting the onside lung. Do you think the desirability of hitting both lungs rather than just one is fuddlore?