Which action to buy

[WRO]

I don't think "all else has failed" though if that means all else being equal. My NF ATACR's lenses were made at LOW in Japan and then I guess it was assembled in the USA. That doesn't mean I should have bought a less reliable (for the task) 100% American scope like a Leupold.

Leupolds are just assembled in the US too for the most part


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[TaperPin]

I find basic clone actions interesting. If we don’t count ordinary pins, springs, or the trigger that will be an aftermarket item on 99% of builds, there are only 9 or ten rather simple parts. The original dimensions and clearances have been long accepted as quite good as is - so other than a few cosmetic changes, you’re not buying anything new. The materials in a factory Remington are nothing special, and unless a clone is bragging about their steel selection, it’s probably rather ordinary chrome moly heat treated to similar hardnesses. Everything is made on CNC machines, so unless a machine is clapped out, accuracy in dimensions is pretty much the same. The amount of cock on close will be very similar. Regular old Remington receivers without any work will shoot well under MOA, so for hunting actions that don’t brag about their dimensional accuracy and trueness, I doubt it’s better than the original. My 60 year old Remington is so close to current production 700’s, a new bolt fits my old receiver within a few thousandths all over. Ordinary clones have zero incentive to change anything - I would bet lunch a 307 bolt will fit my old gun.

There’s a much larger difference between toasters, or Ford vs Chevy pickups.

 

[Lukeduke13]

I find basic clone actions interesting. If we don’t count ordinary pins, springs, or the trigger that will be an aftermarket item on 99% of builds, there are only 9 or ten rather simple parts. The original dimensions and clearances have been long accepted as quite good as is - so other than a few cosmetic changes, you’re not buying anything new. The materials in a factory Remington are nothing special, and unless a clone is bragging about their steel selection, it’s probably rather ordinary chrome moly heat treated to similar hardnesses. Everything is made on CNC machines, so unless a machine is clapped out, accuracy in dimensions is pretty much the same. The amount of cock on close will be very similar. Regular old Remington receivers without any work will shoot well under MOA, so for hunting actions that don’t brag about their dimensional accuracy and trueness, I doubt it’s better than the original. My 60 year old Remington is so close to current production 700’s, a new bolt fits my old receiver within a few thousandths all over. Ordinary clones have zero incentive to change anything - I would bet lunch a 307 bolt will fit my old gun.

There’s a much larger difference between toasters, or Ford vs Chevy pickups.

So your saying get a old trusty Remington 700 action true it up and call it good

 

[Shortschaf]

So your saying get a old trusty Remington 700 action true it up and call it good

Cost of entry for buying then truing a good ol trusty rem700 you are better off buying a clone. Mac bros makes really smooth actions, bet an Element is great as well. Would not deter you from one.

I do appreciate the bolt lock safety on a Tikka. Something virtually nonexistant in 700 clones (I think only Defiance offers a 3 position safety option)

 

[Lukeduke13]

Cost of entry for buying then truing a good ol trusty rem700 you are better off buying a clone. Mac bros makes really smooth actions, bet an Element is great as well. Would not deter you from one.

I do appreciate the bolt lock safety on a Tikka. Something virtually nonexistant in 700 clones (I think only Defiance offers a 3 position safety option)

Thanks, I appreciate your input. My only issue with going the tikka route is i personally don’t like having a magazine.

 

[HuntHarder]

Kelbly Nanook would be my choice. Lightweight, integral rail, smooth.

 

[Benjblt]

Get a center feed Wyatt’s if you’re going to run A BDL.


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This will work on a Tikka stock/action?

 

[GoatPackr]

I recently picked up my first Tikka. It's a custom biuld by UM. I've ALWAYS been a Remington guy. By the time I paid a smith to work it over, true it up and install a trigger I was over the price of a Tikka that comes right without all the extra work. I was shocked to find the factory trigger better than what I paid extra for on the Rems. And the Tikka is smoother and more reliable. I'm sold. For hunting biulds it's all Tikka for me. Probably won't even do much for biulds on them. Just take out of the box and run them.

 

[Trogon]

After being a guy who liked variety and thought a short bolt throw was required, I’m picking up my 3rd Falkor LW7 this week. They are fantastic.

I haven’t heard too much about falkor, what do you like so much about them?

I’m looking at nbk, lp fusion alpine, or nanook for next build so this is in the ballpark of consideration.

 

[amassi]

This will work on a Tikka stock/action?

No
A 700 and bdl bottom metal


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[TaperPin]

So your saying get a old trusty Remington 700 action true it up and call it good

Not at all - I love the looks and finishes of many of the clones - if someone likes fluted bolts, more contemporary bolt handles and bolt shrouds, that alone is worth the cost, and the 307 is quite reasonably priced. However, functionally I don’t think you’ll find much difference from a used Remington or any of the other inexpensive clones.

With an accurate barrel, if a receiver will shoot 1/2 MOA, would it shoot better if trued? Would it matter since that’s pretty good for a hunting rifle? I think it makes sense for bolt lugs to engage evenly, the bolt face to be square with the centerline, and for the front of the receiver to be square. For a hunting rifle, bushing the bolt or recutting the receiver threads seems unnessesary. Many of the truing mandrels, bolt clearance reamers, and whatnot in the gunsmithing tools catalogs seem designed to quickly be able to say a receiver is “true”, if it’s better or not. After measurement, the actual runout on some of these tools has been criticized by many as not as straight as they should be.

For instance, one of these truing mandrels have bushings sized to .0001” and has a nice fit to the ground rod, but the rods from some of the big names are not all that straight. One would not guarantee less than .0005” runout and had many returned because runout was closer to .0010”. Not confidence inspiring.



It pays to check a receiver, but the last two I’ve rebarreled were not bad with minimal work, mainly lapping the lugs. Guys I’ve known who work on a lot of rifles say some are bad, but most are pretty close and some wouldn’t be any straighter if they were trued. It helps that I’m able to measure accurately and have access to a lathe, but mainly I screw a known accurate barrel on and shoot it as a test of the receiver.

 

[Article 4]

More versatile and better how? I used to have a TL3, so I’m not a stranger to the quality 700 clone world. The only “advantage” was that it had an interchangeable bolt face. That’s all. How are 700s more versatile? How are they better?

We weren’t discussing country of origin, but okay. Why would I buy only American if it’s not as good? Believe me, I love to buy American, but if it’s not as good, I’m not going to buy the second rate product to feel good about where it’s made. Besides a M70 and M70 clones, there are no actions that hold up and continue to work in dirt, dust, ice, and snow like a Tikka. I need something I can count on every single time. And all else hasn’t failed!


Huh? All the aftermarket Rem 700 triggers have flaws too! It is because of how that trigger design has to function. The only one to pass the military drop testing is the Geissele that we can’t buy. Their Super 700 is a really close second, and it is the most reliable of all available options. I’m talking Tikka factory trigger. The aftermarket Tikka triggers aren’t as reliable as the OEM.

Tikka's single screw attachment is a suspect setup for a light trigger, if it comes loose you are in deep trouble - I run 1.5 lb triggers on all my hunting rifles and 9 oz triggers in my comp rifles. The Rem clones are safer.

We are always talking about country of origin in everything we do and buy here lately. So the most highly cloned, customized, and utilized action in the world is a second rate product? Sounds like someone is drinking some TIkka kool-aide.

Look I like Tikka - really I do. IMO and IME working with Remington actions and custom clones is always going to be a better choice.

Mil drop test? We are talking Bolt guns here.

Would you buy a chinese action if you thought it was better? Better is a relative term that we are both using. Recent manufacturing issues exist on factory made triggers - this is NOT an issue with what we are talking about....aftermarket triggers do not suffer from this and the OP is building a custom rifle. Again, no one is going to use a factory trigger on a high end custom.

 

[Article 4]

This is incorrect.

I would agree, but there isn’t an American brand that meets my requirements that currently exists.

I don’t think you’ve actually used a Sako or Tikka trigger in high volume based on how you speak. There is no REM based custom trigger that is superior.

It is correct....

There isnt an American Action that meets your requirements?

I haven't? Sounds like you know my life pretty well....you don't, so don't put make your assumptions mine, it offensive.

Used to have a TRG and liked it very much. Wish I had never given that rifle up....Yes, the Remington aftermarket triggers are better than any other trigger available. Period



Its ok that we disagree. Thats why there are so many great brands out there.

 

[Article 4]

More versatile and better how? I used to have a TL3, so I’m not a stranger to the quality 700 clone world. The only “advantage” was that it had an interchangeable bolt face. That’s all. How are 700s more versatile? How are they better?

We weren’t discussing country of origin, but okay. Why would I buy only American if it’s not as good? Believe me, I love to buy American, but if it’s not as good, I’m not going to buy the second rate product to feel good about where it’s made. Besides a M70 and M70 clones, there are no actions that hold up and continue to work in dirt, dust, ice, and snow like a Tikka. I need something I can count on every single time. And all else hasn’t failed!


Huh? All the aftermarket Rem 700 triggers have flaws too! It is because of how that trigger design has to function. The only one to pass the military drop testing is the Geissele that we can’t buy. Their Super 700 is a really close second, and it is the most reliable of all available options. I’m talking Tikka factory trigger. The aftermarket Tikka triggers aren’t as reliable as the OEM.

Out of the two original choices I recommend the Mack Bros....it gives you a significant number of custom features from the factory which the Tikka does not.

There is a reason no one suggested the weatherby or other action....Do you have any data that shows the Tikka actions performing better in dirt, dust, ice etc?

I know there is a huge Tikka following here and thats fine. I am not happy that Remington itself decided to go Wal Mart many years ago.. Again, I like Tikka and think they are a good company and once more, the OP is going to build a custom rifle the Mack Bros or other Rem footprint is a better choice.

 

[Article 4]

Cost of entry for buying then truing a good ol trusty rem700 you are better off buying a clone. Mac bros makes really smooth actions, bet an Element is great as well. Would not deter you from one.

I do appreciate the bolt lock safety on a Tikka. Something virtually nonexistant in 700 clones (I think only Defiance offers a 3 position safety option)

Yeah, not a fan of the bolt lock on a Tikka. I have to take it off safe to open the bolt...no thanks, there is always a chance and I have read there have been AD's due to this. No personal experience here though.

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

It is correct....

There isnt an American Action that meets your requirements?

Making a broad stroke claim that “any reputable smith would prefer to work on Rem” is 100% incorrect.

I haven't? Sounds like you know my life pretty well....you don't, so don't put make your assumptions mine, it offensive.

It’s not my job to keep you from getting offended by words on the internet.

Used to have a TRG and liked it very much. Wish I had never given that rifle up....Yes, the Remington aftermarket triggers are better than any other trigger available. Period

Another very strong claim. Please describe the physical mechanics and why they are “better than any other trigger period”.

It’s ok that we disagree. Thats why there are so many great brands out there.

But there aren’t “so many great brands out there” in what I’ve seen in heavy field use, especially in adverse shooting conditions/weather.

 

[Article 4]

Making a broad stroke claim that “any reputable smith would prefer to work on Rem” is 100% incorrect.

It’s not my job to keep you from getting offended by words on the internet.

Another very strong claim. Please describe the physical mechanics and why they are “better than any other trigger period”.

But there aren’t “so many great brands out there” in what I’ve seen in heavy field use, especially in adverse shooting conditions/weather.

Sounds like you spend a lot of time being offensive. Enjoy that

My claims are based on my personal experience and not the need to validate you, it's not worth my energy.

 

[ChrisAU]

I haven’t heard too much about falkor, what do you like so much about them?

I’m looking at nbk, lp fusion alpine, or nanook for next build so this is in the ballpark of consideration.

Incredibly smooth, and none of mine have ever seen a drop of oil. Very light bolt lift and close, 19.6oz for SA. But my favorite is the feeding. I’ve gotten to where I’ve had to just trust that it fed because it’s so smooth you don’t feel it. Closing on no mag is the same as feeding a round.

 

[Ucsdryder]

Incredibly smooth, and none of mine have ever seen a drop of oil. Very light bolt lift and close, 19.6oz for SA. But my favorite is the feeding. I’ve gotten to where I’ve had to just trust that it fed because it’s so smooth you don’t feel it. Closing on no mag is the same as feeding a round.

Funny you say that. I’ve double checked my Borden Bigfoot a few times thinking it didn’t feed.

 

[JohnJohnson]

I’m looking at nbk, lp fusion alpine, or nanook for next build so this is in the ballpark of consideration.

An Impact NBK is only 3oz lighter than a regular LP Fuzion with full rail if I'm reading the specs right. Benefit to Impact actions is less wait time than LP and you have the choice of using a 75 degree bolt if you ever want to.