Which action to buy

[B_Reynolds_AK]

That really only speaks to the "smoothness" of the Defiance though. And even then it seems like another poster in this thread feels his AnTi is smoother than his Tikkas so there appears to be no agreement.

Perhaps on a clean, dry action. However get the action wet and dirty, like on a true backcountry hunt, and then try and run the AnTi fast, especially with a little sideways pressure, like could be introduced from being in a field position. The bolt bind is very real in that situation.

 

[khuber84]

Bat igniter short action, can take UM dbm that allows 3.150 coal, or a baney bdl box that'll run 3.120 cartridge. There aren't any other short action in the $1100 range that'll do that. A Vesper or Bumblebee, also made by Bat machine will, but at major price hike.
This is only an advantage if you plan to hand load, or get a custom chamber with longer throat for the 145+ gr high bc bullet offerings.

Wana go cheap, buy a Tikka donor rifle, or a Tikka 6.5prc, but suffer the typical slow Tikka barrel.

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

Perhaps on a clean, dry action. However get the action wet and dirty, like on a true backcountry hunt, and then try and run the AnTi fast, especially with a little sideways pressure, like could be introduced from being in a field position. The bolt bind is very real in that situation.

100%!!

 

[JohnJohnson]

Perhaps on a clean, dry action. However get the action wet and dirty, like on a true backcountry hunt, and then try and run the AnTi fast, especially with a little sideways pressure, like could be introduced from being in a field position. The bolt bind is very real in that situation.

I'm certainly not a Defiance apologist. They genuinely don't cross my mind ever when it comes to possible builds. It was more a remark on the bolt smoothness discussion overall in here. I think some customs have very smooth bolt operation to offer that gives nothing practical up to a Tikka. Lone Peak (stainless, not titanium) comes to mind as an example of smoothness, not binding, and reliability in adverse conditions like moondust for instance. Mausingfield actions are an example of reliability, though the bolt lift on mine is too heavy in my opinion.

The customs are all weighed down in reliability by their trigger system but as far as bolt "smoothness" it really all depends what you want in your bolt operation. Bolt lift, bolt close, and bolt binding. Tikkas are awesome at the latter two and have a bit heavier bolt lift.

Customs tend to be good at the first two and, depending on manufacturer, can be varying degrees of good when it comes to binding. Though I'm sure if you try you could make even a good one bind which is where the Tikka does do better. When it comes to that I think the binding thing reaches a point where the differences aren't actually practical anymore. Kind of like an integral rail versus a rail that's been expoxied on with the screws red loctited. Yes there's theoretically a difference but is it practical?

 

[Article 4]

What needs customized on a Tikka that’s not available? They have a great trigger, an aftermarket options are available. They can be customized. What accessories are needed that aren’t available? Behind how? They work phenomenally, shoot phenomenally, and are affordable. Plus, they don’t suffer from the inherent design flaw of a Rem 700 trigger.

Remington based actions will always be more versatile and better to work with - ask any reputable smith and they will tell you they would rather work with Rem.

Second, Mack Bros is an american based company and Tikka is from where?? Oh Finland, sub of Sako, yes they are good but when all else fails, buy american versus a foreign made brand.
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We are talking about a custom rifle build, whey would anyone use a stock trigger on this type of build?? Your thought on the Rem trigger designs doen't apply.

 

[Schmo]

Remington based actions will always be more versatile and better

More versatile and better how? I used to have a TL3, so I’m not a stranger to the quality 700 clone world. The only “advantage” was that it had an interchangeable bolt face. That’s all. How are 700s more versatile? How are they better?

Scond, Mack Bros is an american based company and Tikka is from where?? Oh Finland, sub of Sako, yes they are good but when all else fails, buy american versus a foreign made brand

We weren’t discussing country of origin, but okay. Why would I buy only American if it’s not as good? Believe me, I love to buy American, but if it’s not as good, I’m not going to buy the second rate product to feel good about where it’s made. Besides a M70 and M70 clones, there are no actions that hold up and continue to work in dirt, dust, ice, and snow like a Tikka. I need something I can count on every single time. And all else hasn’t failed!

Custom rifles never use stock triggers so your thoughts on Rem trigger designs dont apply

Huh? All the aftermarket Rem 700 triggers have flaws too! It is because of how that trigger design has to function. The only one to pass the military drop testing is the Geissele that we can’t buy. Their Super 700 is a really close second, and it is the most reliable of all available options. I’m talking Tikka factory trigger. The aftermarket Tikka triggers aren’t as reliable as the OEM.

 

[Ucsdryder]

I’ve never wished a hunting rifle was heavier and I’ve never had a hunting rifle be light enough, especially with suppressors. The 8-10 ounces of a tikka over a 700 clone, just can’t be made up elsewhere, and I have no desire to have some company start grinding away metal, hoping they do just enough, but not too much.

 

[JohnJohnson]

Remington based actions will always be more versatile and better to work with - ask any reputable smith and they will tell you they would rather work with Rem.

Is that because of actual superiority or just a slightly more robust aftermarket and all of their experience being on R700 pattern actions up until now?

Second, Mack Bros is an american based company and Tikka is from where?? Oh Finland, sub of Sako, yes they are good but when all else fails, buy american versus a foreign made brand.

I don't think "all else has failed" though if that means all else being equal. My NF ATACR's lenses were made at LOW in Japan and then I guess it was assembled in the USA. That doesn't mean I should have bought a less reliable (for the task) 100% American scope like a Leupold.

We are talking about a custom rifle build, whey would anyone use a stock trigger on this type of build?? Your thought on the Rem trigger designs doen't apply.

I think he was talking about the system by which any trigger interfaces with a R700 pattern action. It is inherently less reliable than Tikka or Sako's systems. As someone with 3 different R700 based customs (trued R700, Mausingfield M5, and LP Fuzion) I can admit that while also saying my customs deliver what I want more than a Tikka. Namely extremely nice two-stage triggers under 2# pull weight. And very light bolt lift for my non-Mausingfield customs.

 

[Vern400]

This is a Tikka heavy forum. At least take a look at aero precision. Drop in barrels, AND drop in bolt faces AND top shelf precision AND fair cost.

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

Remington based actions will always be more versatile and better to work with - ask any reputable smith and they will tell you they would rather work with Rem.

This is incorrect.

Second, Mack Bros is an american based company and Tikka is from where?? Oh Finland, sub of Sako, yes they are good but when all else fails, buy american versus a foreign made brand.

I would agree, but there isn’t an American brand that meets my requirements that currently exists.

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We are talking about a custom rifle build, whey would anyone use a stock trigger on this type of build?? Your thought on the Rem trigger designs doen't apply.

I don’t think you’ve actually used a Sako or Tikka trigger in high volume based on how you speak. There is no REM based custom trigger that is superior.

 

[JohnJohnson]

More versatile and better how? I used to have a TL3, so I’m not a stranger to the quality 700 clone world. The only “advantage” was that it had an interchangeable bolt face. That’s all. How are 700s more versatile? How are they better?

I'm not going to get into "better" since that's subjective. I will go to bat for the fact R700 customs give you more options and versatility though, as they should.

1. Choice of bolt throw. 60, 70, 75, and 90 degree options. Some companies like Defiance or Impact you can buy a 75 degree bolt for your existing 90 degree action too.
2. As you said, some like Zermatt or ARC have interchangeable bolt heads
3. Integral rails and recoil lugs
4. More robust bolt stop (really the only thing guys break on Tikka actions to be fair)
5. Choices of CRF vs push feed or mechanical ejection vs plunger
6. Interesting stuff like the QC barrel change feature on Terminus Zeus actions that lets you do barrel swaps with just an allen key (like an AI)
7. Slightly better aftermarket in stocks and triggers. Though to be honest the gap in aftermarket inlets for stocks is shrinking fast. And the trigger thing is only relevant if you're really into two-stage triggers.
8. Use of AW magazines if you want

I'm sure there's other stuff I'm forgetting but that's just off the top of my head. Basically none of that is relevant to a hunting rifle though.

Their Super 700 is a really close second

I really hope they start making that thing again and, when they do, it's just as reliable. I'll grab a few of them.

 

[Mike D Texas]

I like my Tikka rifles but I would not trade any of my 700 pattern customs for one.

I have the following

Kelbly Atlas Tactical
Pierce SkeleTi
BAT Vesper
Borden Bigfoot

The Kelbly action is the smoothest followed by the Bat.


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