Which 7mm Bullet?

hereinaz

WKR
Rokslide Sponsor
Joined
Dec 21, 2016
Messages
3,383
Location
Arizona
“Temporary wound channel” is not a wound channel at all. It is a temporary stretching of the very elastic flesh and organs. It’s cool to see in ballistic gel, but it means very little in a real animal.

At best, it might bruise tissue, but the amount of blood involved in that is inconsequential.

Animals die and are recovered when they lose sufficient blood from an injury to their vitals so that the brain is deprived of oxygen and they lose consciousness. Consider the archer. Or, of course they are shot in the brain and lose consciousness.

Any other death is much slower and caused by secondary cause of infection or maybe organ damage that otherwise causes death by toxicity.

For a hunter to kill, it is only the immediate cutting and smashing of the projectile or pieces of the projectile cause damage to soft tissue that is necessary for transfer of blood to the brain that causes quick death. A liver shot will kill by bleeding, but only if sufficient blood is lost. A gut shot usually won’t cause nearly as much bleeding as a liver. A shot through only muscle won’t kill because of loss of blood.

The so called “temporary wound channel” is so large in size that if it meant anything at all there would be bloodshot meat in the size and shape similar to ballistic gel. But, of course that doesn’t exist.

Lead bullets create bloodshot meat because of the lead spreading through the organ or muscle, cutting and causing bleeding. Of course, the bleeding from bloodshot meat is not a significant part in the cause of death. But, it shows what is actually happening, and disproves the “temporary wound channel” hypothesis.

There is limited bloodshot meat in mono wounds because the metal does not disintegrate. Bone impacts cause bloodshot meat because of bone fragments. Mono shots are cleaner on the inside of the animal and therefore cut less.

That brings me to the “match bullets” that break apart and cause significant damage. There have been innumerable threads, including the one about .224 77 grain Sierra TMK showing how deadly the bullet is. A double lung shot will disable and kill quite quickly when the animal is bleeding and lung’s cannot oxygenate the blood. It can be just as fast as a heart shot, even faster if it causes more blood loss.

It is why animals hit in the vitals with a clean shot from a Berger or TMK die quickly and require very little tracking, if at all. The catastrophic damage causes bleeding and lung failure, depriving the brain of oxygen causing death.

That is why I shoot a 169 180 grain Berger hunting VLD in 7mm. The bullets are highly precise so I can have high confidence in shot placement and death.

A mono or “mushrooming” bullet will more likely exit, but it will cause less damage. Tracking is more often required when less damage is done and death delayed. While they can be just as accurate and precise, I don’t use them.

I have reviewed a significant amount of literature in the subject coming from gun wound surgery, including high velocity rifle bullets.

Surgeons remove only the damaged tissue in the actual wound channel.
 

just.mark

FNG
Joined
Jun 17, 2022
Messages
51
Location
Washington state
For me one of the main draws to the 7mm prc is the high BC of the 170-180gr bullets with velocities around 2900. High BC equates to less wind drift. I am currently shooting ELDMs for their high BC but acknowledge that other bullets probably have some what better terminal ballistics. I shoot a lot and want to shoot a bullet I am comfortable with as opposed to switching it up for a hunting specific bullet.

If you asked me what the best hunting bullet is then we have to acknowledge that most kills are inside 300 hundred yards and I would go with a normal acubond or expanding bonded bullet with a decent BC. This sort of goes against the niche purpose of the 7mm prc.

I also believe velocity is as much a killer as the bullet it self and as touched on previously there is a temporary wound channel "cavitation" but there is also permanent cavitation effects created with high velocity bullets. If you look at 7.62 and 5.56 mm wound patterns it's very apparent that the wound channel is larger than the bullet.
 

iowawhitetailnut

Lil-Rokslider
Joined
Oct 16, 2019
Messages
296
This is an old thread, but hoping some of you have some updates. I recently bought a Seekins Element in 7prc and plan to generally shoot Berger 180 hybrids. I am hoping to go on moose hunt in next couple years and wondering if I should use Barnes LRX for moose rather than the 180 hybrids? Interested in your thoughts/experience? If LRX, should I go with 145 or 168? Seems to me that 145gr LRX is very light for 7prc but 168gr is too heavy to hold velocity and longer distance. Sure wish they made something in the 155gr range.
 
Joined
Sep 28, 2018
Messages
2,216
Location
VA
I plan on carrying 2 loads because I'm still undecided if I want a 180 Berger or 160 range copper mono. I'll probably have to shoot a few whitetails at distance with the mono's before I try them on Elk.

I know the 180's will work because I was shooting match bullets on deer well over a decade ago. It wasn't well received back then
 

hereinaz

WKR
Rokslide Sponsor
Joined
Dec 21, 2016
Messages
3,383
Location
Arizona
Go look at the thread where the 223 with 77 grain tipped match kings is killing moose.

The 180 are fine. The only thing I would tell you is to shoot a berger hunting bullet so that you get more expansion. I shoot the 180 VLD and have had pass through on elk at 500 yards.
 

eric1115

WKR
Joined
Jun 26, 2018
Messages
808
This is an old thread, but hoping some of you have some updates. I recently bought a Seekins Element in 7prc and plan to generally shoot Berger 180 hybrids. I am hoping to go on moose hunt in next couple years and wondering if I should use Barnes LRX for moose rather than the 180 hybrids? Interested in your thoughts/experience? If LRX, should I go with 145 or 168? Seems to me that 145gr LRX is very light for 7prc but 168gr is too heavy to hold velocity and longer distance. Sure wish they made something in the 155gr range.
I would 100% take the 180 hybrid. Consistent pass through on elk for me if you're worried about penetration, and I would say they have been more empathetic killers for me on elk than on deer due to the neck length of the wound channel. They're often close to halfway through a deer chest before they really start to upset. They tear up more of the on-side lung on an elk than they do on a deer.

Definitely better wound channel than I've seen with monos (though I haven't used the LRX).
 

270quest

WKR
Joined
Jan 31, 2017
Messages
720
Location
Boise, Idaho
I have killed a lot of critters with a 150 scenar out of the 7 rem mag at 3150 FPS...The 180 scenar is skookum as well...
 
Joined
Dec 30, 2014
Messages
9,730
Of those monos 160 lazer for sure, didn't even know they started making that bullet as i've got the 145s 7mm on hand. The G1 appears to be over 0.100 higher than the 168 barnes and I wouldn't be surprised if you could push it a fair bit faster as well.

Other monos that are interesting are the mcguire ballistics ones. I'm skeptical on the BCs but they can be ungodly inflated and still stomp barnes/hammer with actual BC.
 
Top