When you have lost an animal, what do you believe was the cause?

[Geewhiz]

To the basic question of what causes wounding loss I think it is lack of penetration, sharpness / durability of the broadhead and shot placement. None of these guarantee success as they all have to work together for us to achieve success. You can make a perfect shot with no penetration or have a dull broadhead, or get full penetration in something not vital. Blood trailing is another problem if there isn't one to follow.

My story of wounding loss and my full circle

I kept notes from old arrows from years gone by and thought I would share some lessons I learned over the years. During my early bowhunting career (1979-1985) life was good and no animals were lost according to my notes. Three elk, four deer and a bear were harvested. I kept each arrow recovered for years and documented from which animal and their weight. Those early years started with Satellite 125 grain four blade 1" razor blade broadheads, XX75 2216 shafts, 72 lb. draw weight with a forgiving round wheel compound bow, shooting fingers with a tab at 202 fps.

Following my early success I began changing things to follow the crowd and the marketing hype (1986-2020). New cam bows, lighter and lighter aluminum arrows, heavier 150 gr. broadheads then lighter 100 grain broadheads, mechanical broadheads, carbon shafts, full metal jacket heavy shafts, new releases and my list could go on. As I made these changes and my wounding rates increased, but accuracy improved in practice. I thought it must be my shot placement on animals (which looked good), or maybe my broadheads were causing the problems. I wondered why better shot placement and faster arrows were leading to fewer recoveries. Not every shot was perfect, but I noticed penetration was decreasing and animals living longer than what I had come to expect from those early years. I also noticed deflections were becoming more and more common which I hadn't seen before.

Over 40 plus years, I have lost five elk (only one I believe was because of shot placement) and three deer. Plus some additional stories of long tracking jobs with antelope in open country. About three years ago I sorted my arrows by years and noticed overall weight had been steadily declining over the years by 200 grains. I knew that lighter weight arrows allowed me to have more pins and more pins meant I could shoot farther. However in actual hunting situations I never shot much farther than I had earlier. I gradually started passing good shot opportunities because I had lost confidence in my setup even at close range and just took a picture to share with my buddies who thought I must had joined PETA.

Three years ago I decided I needed to figure out why my old system worked so well, before I quit bowhunting. I decided to learn about arrow lethality and make whatever changes were required using my old system as a base example. I wasn't sure I believed everything I read and heard but thought I would give it a try before my bowhunting career comes to an end. I didn't follow everything I learned that first year, but I was willing to try it and as luck would have it I did harvest a bull elk that first year and everything was different. It was different than anything I had ever experienced before and it was like my arrow was on steroids just passing through an elk. Second year I moved up a little more in weight and FOC and again everything was different just like the previous year. What I mean by everything was different was arrow flight, penetration, broadhead sharpness, reaction to the shot, tracking distance etc.. Shot placement was okay on a quartering in and better on quarter away. But the reaction to the shots were totally different. Both bulls jumped at the shot/impact, then walk a short distance, stood still then fell over within sight. Much better than old system. No tracking was required on either bull and penetration was complete and total pass through. Previously I only had one total pass through on elk in forty plus years of bowhunting.

I realize my sample is only two elk, but I only get one tag per year.

Good luck to all,

PM me if you have questions

Great analysis. I am interested to hear what conclusion you came to as far as total arrow weight, broadhead selection, etc. You sound like you have a lot of years worth of data points to look back on.

 

[Ucsdryder]

You forgot one. No effing idea. Shot a nice 6x6 last year. Literally said “he’s dead” as he walked away. Shot was 27 yards, standing broadside. Never saw him again. I either squared up a rib, and it had a rebound effect or somehow his leg bone tucked back.

 

[Geewhiz]

You forgot one. No effing idea. Shot a nice 6x6 last year. Literally said “he’s dead” as he walked away. Shot was 27 yards, standing broadside. Never saw him again. I either squared up a rib, and it had a rebound effect or somehow his leg bone tucked back.

Been there. Makes you sick.

 

[Deleted member 8-15-23]

1) shooting beyond your range, 2] poor tracking skills. 3) rushing your shot.

 

[Dennis]

Great analysis. I am interested to hear what conclusion you came to as far as total arrow weight, broadhead selection, etc. You sound like you have a lot of years worth of data points to look back on.

Thank you for taking the time to read my story and I will PM you my conclusions. In general I think we all realize that anyone can make a bad shot and loose an animal. I think what we don't realize is why we are loosing animals with good shots. I believe that comes down to the arrow we shoot.

 

[Beendare]

Arrow penetration;
I saw an interesting analysis of the physics involved by a college professor. Hat Tip to “Old Joe” on AT that has some very good analysis on the subject of arrow energy- you can easily search his posts.

One thing is that friction on contact with the animal increases a lot as the speed of the arrow or bullet increases. Its either an exponential increase or an SxS type thing- I can’t remember the exact formula….but the point is it goes WAAAY up.

This explains a lot of the cases of poor penetration I’ve seen which were cases with light arrow and big BH with a lot of resistance. Some were with arrows on the lighter side and the short wide chisel point heads that chop in vs slide in.

The hair, hide and meat of the animal becomes more difficult to penetrate as speed goes up. Its not just light arrows with wide cut inefficient heads…but many including myself have seen in with bullets like hollow points that literally splatter on contact.

Some have interpreted this info to infer more arrow/ bullet weight is the answer- and yes it can help but it also increases the arc of the projectile.

My solution is a more efficient BH with a leading edge blade and tapered design that penetrates effortlessly like 2 blades, 3 blade 2 1/2 to 1- or more- taper. These efficient designs work with light trad equipment, light arrows heavy arrows etc.

There is something catastrophic about Two holes in a critter that puts them down. Two holes through the chest not only cuts and fills the lungs with blood but also introduces outside pressure making them difficult to inflate- a double whammy.

 

[Hnthrdr]

So far I have lost 1 bull elk, it was an awful experience. I shot him slightly quartered, broadside at 33 yards. Shot felt good, looked like a good hit, he spun and ran off. I gave it some time. Probably not enough and I went to look for the arrow. Couldn’t find it and kind of lost my head and started making way too much noise looking for it. This was 6pm or so. I came to my senses, backed out and came back at 9pm with head lamps. I started tracking and was on blood quickly. Decent blood, not amazing. I tracked that bull for a little over a mile. At one point I found a snickers bar sized glob of quagulated blood. I figured he sneezed or coughed it up and I would find him within yards. Well he crossed a big wallow shortly after and the blood trail ended there. Get back to camp at 2 am. Slept for a few hours then went back to look. I found a bull, in the timber about 600 yards from where I lost blood. I’m 40 yards away, no shot, and the bull was acting funny. He got up and slow trotted off, but he had the wind. I backed out and never found him again. Not sure if he lived or died. I’m guessing I got one lung or I hit him a little farther back than I thought . This was with a 505 grn arrow, 15% foc and a super sharp iron will. Losing an animal definitely eats at you. Not something I want to deal with ever again. But if you hunt long enough it happens

 

[P Carter]

Thank you for taking the time to read my story and I will PM you my conclusions. In general I think we all realize that anyone can make a bad shot and loose an animal. I think what we don't realize is why we are loosing animals with good shots. I believe that comes down to the arrow we shoot.

Would you mind PMing me also? Super interested in this for reasons I can explain. (Part of hunting group that uses “middle school” setups.)

 

[Dennis]

Would you mind PMing me also? Super interested in this for reasons I can explain. (Part of hunting group that uses “middle school” setups.)

You bet PM sent

 

[Long Cut]

I have a similar experience to @Dennis

I put a shot on a buck at 12 yards, arrow deflected off a twig as mentioned in my post previously.
I went to a 650 grain arrow with iron will S100’s and I’ve had very good results. My trajectory is a rainbow compared to the 420 grain arrows previously, but deflections have been reduced.

IMO trajectory is important, but so is limiting arrow deflection in the field. Whether that’s off a twig, grass or a rib.
We can beat our chests behind a keyboard saying whatever, but shit happens out there. Low visibility, moving animals or plants, misjudging yardage or pulling the shot…
We need a relatively flat trajectory with enough weight behind a very sharp broadhead to efficiently put animals down.

 

[jpmulk]

Shot placement isnt the question. What caused the shot placement. That is what the options should be. And that would be things such as: lack of knowledge of anatomy, flinching, animal movement, range error, etc….

 

[Long Cut]

Shot placement isnt the question. What caused the shot placement. That is what the options should be. And that would be things such as: lack of knowledge of anatomy, flinching, animal movement, range error, etc….

Correct but instead of berating people we need to relay previous experiences of what happened and ideally ways to mitigate that.

I’ve gone to a heavier arrow, tuned/bareshaft and I have begun shooting at dusk/dark to practice shooting in low light conditions and becoming more observant of obstacles.

Being in a state that allows hunting hours 30 minutes before/after sunset I’ve experienced multiples encounters within that last 5-10 minutes of shooting light. Being comfortable or knowing limitations beforehand is a lot better than being in the “hot seat”

 

[Ross]

IMO and personal experience and listening to endless recaps since I first archery hunted in 1986 equipment failure is often the scapegoat to make our minds feel better about the wrong outcome. Things happen so quick and No One is perfect and we often want to recap in our mind it was a solid hit when it is not. Sure there can be something that fails equipment wise, but that is a verrry small percentage especially with the quality of todays equipment. If you don’t find your elk within a 100 yds with a bow shot your more often than not going to have a very difficult track job or get extremely lucky to find them. Do your best, be realistic, don’t rush to track in most settings, always take a followup shot if presented and Do Not celebrate until your standing over them. Every year there are multiple stories of What Do I do now I cannot find them the shot was perfect, sadly No it wasn’t. Good luck this fall

 

[Hnthrdr]

Yep, the sender of the bullet or arrow is ultimately responsible for what happens to that animal, wether he gets a good quick death or not. Definitely the more sobering aspect of hunting.

 

[Long Cut]

IMO and personal experience and listening to endless recaps since I first archery hunted in 1986 equipment failure is often the scapegoat to make our minds feel better about the wrong outcome. Things happen so quick and No One is perfect and we often want to recap in our mind it was a solid hit when it is not. Sure there can be something that fails equipment wise, but that is a verrry small percentage especially with the quality of todays equipment. If you don’t find your elk within a 100 yds with a bow shot your more often than not going to have a very difficult track job or get extremely lucky to find them. Do your best, be realistic, don’t rush to track in most settings, always take a followup shot if presented and Do Not celebrate until your standing over them. Every year there are multiple stories of What Do I do now I cannot find them the shot was perfect, sadly No it wasn’t. Good luck this fall

Agreed.

I don’t think equipment “failure” is the best way to word that, though. Sure broadheads do fail OR were they poorly utilized for a given setup (draw length, weight, arrow weight, sharpness etc…)

In my opinion it’s a combination of the equipment (how’s its setup, tuned) and the operator’s proficiency with that weapon system, paired with the operator’s ability to read the animal.

Shooting a nervous deer VS a calm deer with a bow often leads to two completely different outcomes.

Knowing when to draw back, shoot, where to shoot and when to follow a blood trail or back off a blood trail are crucial aspects of a good hunter.

Solid advice @Ross I’m with you. I’m just hopeful a newer hunter takes our advice to Heart to prevent the headaches that we’ve all experienced afield.

 

[Bump79]

I think it is lack of penetration, sharpness / durability of the broadhead and shot placement

Thanks for sharing your story! The intent of this thread is to delve into these issues & determine which of those issues is the most prevalent. I agree that there is overlap - a rushed shot causes poor placement or a decent shot with too soon of tracking leads to no recovery or you might aim further back if you shoot a mechanical (not that you should).

In my opinion - these 2 things you mentioned are separate & distinct issues. We're trying to figure out the primary cause and so far to date - 9 votes of 80 have identified that lack of penetration was the primary cause. The lack of penetration can be broke down into secondary causes such as placement, broadhead design, sharpness, durability & KE/M. Shot placement is an option above and broke out.

 

[Bump79]

Let's keep the responses going!

 

[Dennis]

In my opinion - these 2 things you mentioned are separate & distinct issues. We're trying to figure out the primary cause and so far to date - 9 votes of 80 have identified that lack of penetration was the primary cause. The lack of penetration can be broke down into secondary causes such as placement, broadhead design, sharpness, durability & KE/M. Shot placement is an option above and broke out.

Let's keep the responses going!

I think you have an answer to your question when you have ruled out other factors.

 

[Stalker69]

Being honest, I know it a rare thing any more. But I can't blame it on anything other then me.( most people would have an excuse) Bad shot placement, rushed shot, buck fever, wrong pin, etc. But it's all on me. I see many say lack of penetration, but really what caused that lack of penetration. Bad shot placement ( I'd say is most likely) choosing the wrong broad head, Bad arrow flight, distance to far. But really all those are our fault also.

 

[Zac]

Its always shot placement, no matter what the other reasons are.

I'd like to hear you tell Randy Ulmer the reason he missed all those 200 inch mule deer was because he wasn't a good enough shot.