When to hold vs when to dial?

[TaperPin]

If the goal is killing animals and not just playing with long range toys, I’m simply encouraging long range shooters to have a plan that best maximizes their odds of making a killing hit at all distances. That’s being good at holding at short ranges for quick shots, and being good dialing past that, and knowing when to do either. Quick short range skills makes an accomplished long range shooter more deadly, not less. Would you take a long range shooting class that states they want to make you less deadly from 0 to 700 yards? Yet, having no short range plan does just that.

Plenty of long and medium range guys also have zero interest in even practicing off hand shots and will let an unexpected 100 yard animal walk away if the shot has to be offhand. I’ve had to ask accomplished long range guys why they didn’t take what is an easy shot with a heavy rifle. This is unfortunate, because with moderate practice shooters with heavy long range guns can add 50% to their effective offhand range in a handful of weeks.

I can see where you’re coming from. I have ballistic binos, so my glassing and ranging are the same step. In your example of 275, I’d probably just do a quick drop calc and send it at 0.7 mils.

When an animal jumps up or suddenly pokes out of some brush unannounced what you are describing isn’t realistic - your binoculars aren’t up, but you have to dig them out, hold steady enough to range, fiddle around to get the rifle off your shoulder or gun carrier and into position. It’s a classic mistake of young hunters to fiddle around instead of focusing 100% on getting the rifle up and the shot off for shots in this range. If PRS matches had random targets pop up unannounced inbetween fixed stages 300 yards and in, with a score based on how quickly you made the shot, you’d be all over holding for those distances.

I suspect your argument is going to be that you are only holding out to shorter ranges and perhaps failing after that.

Short range holdover doesn’t take the place of dialing longer ranges. For every shooter they should test themselves and their equipment enough to know what techniques give them the best hits at any given yardage, shooting position, animal movement and time allowed. I used to be surprised at long distance shooters who don’t understand how hitting moving targets works, another skill that would make a long distance shooter more deadly not less, but that’s a different topic.

 

[robby denning]

I can understand how it sounds quick to always follow the same procedure, and the more someone sticks to it the faster it is, but there’s no way to range a distance out to 300 yards, dial and shoot as fast as someone can simply hold and pull the trigger. It ticks off my nephew all the time when we’re shooting rocks and he points one out, brings the range finder up to eye level for a reading about the time my rifle goes Bang Bang, dead rock.

It’s not the only way to do things, but not dialing is simply a little bit faster. I’ve lost 3 animals I’d like to have on the wall by a matter of one or two seconds, so it’s been a priority most of my adult life to speed up my process as much as possible, which includes what distance the scope is set while walking around, knowing holds instinctively to 400 yards, being good enough at estimating to 300 yards to not have to range, not getting into a slower more steady position if a less steady faster position is good enough, carrying the rifle in hand as often as possible, not zooming a scope in or out, good trigger control so the first time the crosshairs are on target the gun fires, don’t use scope caps unless conditions warrant them, and holding 2 MOA on a 10 mph wind call at all distances to 300. As much time as I’ve spent fine tuning, I’d love to find extra speed somewhere and would be the first to dial if it were as fast or faster.

Even as close as a few years ago I can’t remember any of the cool kids admitting they walk around with their scope dialed to anything other than 100 yards, but now there are plenty who follow something like I do. All my scopes, even the ones that dial, are set for 300 yards. That makes it as simple as a hand width low for 100 & 200, hand width high at 350. The crazy thing is it works with any cartridge. Check out your rifle on a ballistics program - when it’s set to 300 yards, not knowing what bullet, velocity or cartridge I could use those same holds if it were a 243 or 300 PRC.

How valuable it is kind of depends on how someone hunts. There are some kinds of hunting where it’s about as exciting as watching paint dry and shots are quite predictable and not rushed. Eastman’s video of elk hunting the Red Desert is a prime example. Meat hunting in any area with tons of animals is another. Who cares if a doe or little buck walks behind a tree, another is right around the corner. But walking a ridge in western Wyoming when a big buster buck could stand up and trot off at any minute speed matters. When a bear is moving through small openings, speed matters. If a elk walks out of the timber 300 yards away, takes a look at you walking out in the open, turns around and high tails it back in, speed matters.

Nothing I say is secret or not testable. I didn’t come up with any part of it, but combined bits and pieces of what others have done before me. Someone should shoot different scenarios for themselves and see what’s faster for them. In fact it would be much more valuable for someone to shoot it themselves rather than take the word of some random dude online.

QUICK!!! Deer about 275 just paused at a ridgetop what do you dial? I drop on my butt, hold dead on and bang bang. The other thing I do at short range is round up and not get caught up in mentally splitting a hand width in half, because it doesn’t matter at that range, and it shouldn’t matter to someone working in MILs.

u and me the same Not taking away from the dialing guys on this LR forum at all--much respect for their discipline and systems--just saying what's worked for me at the distances I limit myself to. (500ish and in). When needed, speed kills.

 

[Chris in TN]

This is the long range hunting forum. I get that. And at the end of the day, my hunting isn't really 'long range'. 90% of my hunting and 98% of my animal shooting has happened inside of 300 yards. And I get that there are people who hunt things, in places, where getting shots inside of 500 is rare. But I still believe that for most of us, we are better off focusing on that 0-300 yard fast shot, and letting the 300+ realm be sort of a separate sub-discipline that is secondary to our usual 0-300 shots.

Maybe it's 0-200 for one guy and 0-400 for another, but, I still think most of us will spend most of our hunting days in places where under-500 is more likely than over-500.

And if that's the case, there are over-500 gear choices that make less sense, for the under-500 crowd.

I see things taught as unquestionable dogma on this forum, for the 500-1000 crowd, that I believe to be counterproductive for the 0-500 guy. I also believe there are ideas that work well for the guy hunting late-season cow elk in the wide open snow, that are terrible for the guy hunting whitetails at 125 yards in a pine plantation next to a standing cornfield.

(I don't dial anything inside of 300, except .22lr).