What would you do?

[TrailDog]

Hind sight is always 20/20, but curious for some experienced advice here...

First time hunting SWest Montana this past week, I typically don't leave region 1 but a friend showed me around his home turf near Ennis. Man, what a time...bugling bulls all over the place, first time calling back and forth with elk, great learning experience and great country to hunt. Shot my first archery elk and am still learning some hard lessons....

Long story short, I shot a bull on a rainy Friday morning in some THICK blowdown and young timber. Shot him high lungs perhaps, 35 yards, heard the THWACK of a hit. Bull takes off into the blowdown hell hole and I wait around for an hour, send an inReach to my hunting partner. 8 hours later I still have not found a trace of blood or sign of him, and I keep bumping elk and bulls in the blowdown. Find my arrow, the fletching 1/2, broken with some meat at the break, definetly not a pass through shot. I peel out of there at dark not sure what to do. Hunting partner has me convinved I hit him too high for a fatal shot, arrow did not pass through, so likely hit him in the shoulder or backstrap and he'll live. So we take Saturday to glass and rest. I don't sleep well, and get up Sunday morning early and stomp into the area I've already gridded hard for this elk, wanting to give it one last attempt.

Immedietly there are tons of ravens and crows in the area, swooping down to the ground. I pull out bear spray and start yelling, and am hit with the smell of guts/carcass. A bear charges through the blowdown to maybe 20 yards huffing and snapping jaws, I climb up on some blowdown and yell back. Bear goes back to the carcass, I start retreating, he bluff charges a few more times and I get the hell out of there.

Lots of questions, but first:

What are your tactics when you've made a shot on an elk and there is zero blood? In this area you could walk 5 feet from a dead animal and not see it, the blowdown was so tangled and thick. Also there were so many other elk that it was nearly impossible to check all the fresh tracks and beds for blood, which I tried to do, within a 1/4 mile radius.

In what scenario would you attempt to chase a grizzly off your rightful kill?

 

[BTLowry]

I doubt I am trying to chase a bear off of a kill in the scenario you describe (blowdown mess) if at all. Probably not even in a clean area would I challenge a bear

Not worth getting mauled by a bear, especially if it has already made a mess out of the carcass
What were the temps like?
Any chance the meat was salvageable at that point?


If my gut told me it was a good shot I probably would have been looking Saturday is only thing I would have done different

 

[Axlrod]

I would have been back in there at first light Sat. Even at that, if the bull died Fri night, you would have spoiled meat by sat morning.

 

[Scoot]

I would have been back in there at first light Sat. Even at that, if the bull died Fri night, you would have spoiled meat by sat morning.

I would have been back in there immediately on Saturday too. However, just because the bull died Friday night doesn't necessarily mean you'd have spoiled meat by Saturday. I've been involved with a few killed bulls where we had to come back the next morning to find them. I've literally never lost a bit of meat. Some conditions/situations won't find you as fortunate as I've been though.

As for finding a bear on the carcass, I'm a chicken shit when it comes to grizz. I'd tip my cap and congratulate the bear on a nice meal, then I'd do everything in my power to make a better shot next time (and I don't mean that as a shot at you- shit happens and you very well may have missed a quick kill by not too many inches). I'd have been very puckered up in the situation you described! No deer/elk is worth your life and the situation you're describing is a dangerous one.

 

[TrailDog]

Roger that.

It was cool and overcast, we were at 8200' and temps were below freezing at night, 50's in the day, I don't think the meat would have spoiled.

When I shot, I guessed the yardage to be about 40, in reality it was 34 yards, so definetly hit him high, but my gut feeling was that it was a good shot. Only shot lane through the trees was his vitals and upper front shoulder.

He died in completely the opposite direction he ran after I shot. With no blood trail, it's doubtful we would have ever found him tangled up in the blowdown 180 degrees opposite the direction I was searching. Who knows, but it was a mess in there for sure, blowdown stacked 5' tall and grown up with brush and christmas trees.

 

[Gerbdog]

All you can do is grid like you did, and i'd have gotten there first thing Saturday, those ravens and crows find that carcass quick, they may have gotten on it Saturday yet even.

Aint no chance im chasing a Grizz off an elk kill.

Me personally if a grizz was on my kill after a couple of days of it laying there? I'd have punched my tag, shook my fist at the sky, congrats to the bear for a nice pile of food before winter, come back later to see if i can recover the skull piece once the grizz had his way with the carcass.

 

[db3445]

Roger that.

It was cool and overcast, we were at 8200' and temps were below freezing at night, 50's in the day, I don't think the meat would have spoiled.

When I shot, I guessed the yardage to be about 40, in reality it was 34 yards, so definetly hit him high, but my gut feeling was that it was a good shot. Only shot lane through the trees was his vitals and upper front shoulder.

He died in completely the opposite direction he ran after I shot. With no blood trail, it's doubtful we would have ever found him tangled up in the blowdown 180 degrees opposite the direction I was searching. Who knows, but it was a mess in there for sure, blowdown stacked 5' tall and grown up with brush and christmas trees.

The meat would have not spoiled based on those conditions.

In situations where I/my hunting party is dealing with a wounded animal with a poor blood trail, we give the animal plenty of time and then go out and look together. We fan out with about 15-20 yards between each of us and walk slowly, looking for any sign we can to get on some sort of trail to follow the wounded animal, and also looking for the animal itself. Obviously this method works better with country that is more open. The one critique I have is not going back on Saturday to look for your kill.

Even if you used the method I mentioned, it still sounds like you would have not recovered the bull due to the fact that it died in the opposite direction. That is peculiar to me.

These things happen so keep your head up and keep at it!

 

[wide_groupings]

Hunting And Angling | Montana FWP

How to stay safe afield. Pack meat out as soon as possible. Avoid cutting up carcass at dusk or night. If you kill an animal at dusk, be prepared to cut up the carcass in the dark by carrying strong headlamps. Be extra vigilant and watch for bears. Properly hang meat until you can retrieve...

fwp.mt.gov

If a bear has claimed your animal, do not attempt to haze or frighten the bear away. Report any lost game to FWP.

Have never experienced it, but I can't imagine trying to scare a bear off a carcass.

 

[TaperPin]

Elk are heavy enough to leave a pretty good trail - it’s not fun to get down and mark faint tracks - but on your hands and knees looking back at a nice trail of TP squares will eventually pay off.

Just judging by how few times tracking is mentioned in posts, it’s an under valued skill.

The grizzly run in is a great end to the story - you won’t ever forget that!

 

[Smtn10pt]

So you never actually saw what the bear was on, it may not have even been your bull. Go back there sometime in the future and see if you can find the rack.

 

[MJB]

I'm telling you these bears need to be hazed hard!

I try not to shoot them in the thick deadfall but when I have I'll wait there and won't move until the other elk start to move on their own. Then I'll work the wind to see if I can smell something. If not then I go back to the shot and start working the track.
Next morning I go back with loads for grizz and a dog or two to make life easier.

 

[Ross]

Sounds like a different elk to me. Two days later in cool weather and the opposite direction of your elk, there is a good chance that is a different elk as the smell of stench from your bull likely not to that extent. As to the bear he wins the prize would not risk that encounter. Blood trails are so difficult, if not gushing out especially in bad conditions and lighting. You do your best and learn anything you can for next time.

 

[Axlrod]

The meat would have not spoiled based on those conditions.

In situations where I/my hunting party is dealing with a wounded animal with a poor blood trail, we give the animal plenty of time and then go out and look together. We fan out with about 15-20 yards between each of us and walk slowly, looking for any sign we can to get on some sort of trail to follow the wounded animal, and also looking for the animal itself. Obviously this method works better with country that is more open. The one critique I have is not going back on Saturday to look for your kill.

Even if you used the method I mentioned, it still sounds like you would have not recovered the bull due to the fact that it died in the opposite direction. That is peculiar to me.

These things happen so keep your head up and keep at it!

I don't know how many elk you have skinned, that were dead all night with the guts in them. But 100% of the 30+ I have seen were sour. Most of these were brought into our processing shop. This is with temps as low as 0*. Deer are a different story, probably over 50% were okay.

 

[mtnbound]

I don't know how many elk you have skinned, that were dead all night with the guts in them. But 100% of the 30+ I have seen were sour. Most of these were brought into our processing shop. This is with temps as low as 0*. Deer are a different story, probably over 50% were okay.

I agree, I have seen a few elk that were not recovered until the next day in late November in a foot of snow that the meat soured.

 

[Zeke6951]

I was in on the recovery of a bull the first week or so in September in the early 2000s. The weather was warm enough none of us even wore a hoody. The bull was shot at dusk and recovered about 9:30 the next morning. An all day pack out and too the processor early on the third day after the shot. Part of the meat on the down side rear quarter was sour. The rest of the meat was fine. YMV

 

[WCB]

In what scenario would you attempt to chase a grizzly off your rightful kill?

Only way I would try it is if it was wide open and I could ensure he ran for a long ways. I wouldn't push the issue but If you could do it from a good distance. Say get upwind and be perfectly visible and create a bit of noise...100% not walking in trying to push a bear off in any sort of cover.

 

[butcherboy]

Definitely a high lung shot. Probably hit the offside shoulder as well not allowing a full pass through. High lung shots pretty much bleed out internally. It could have been your bull if it didn’t die right away. Easy for it to change direction. Could have been a completely different elk as well. Definitely be in there first thing Saturday morning looking.

I’ve seen hundreds of spoiled elk over the years. Always a result of leaving them overnight and not finding them till the next day at some point. Also, it always starts first on the side they are laying on. It doesn’t have as much to do with the outside temp as it does the body temp. Elk are big animals with a lot of heat. That hide holds a lot of heat in. There is nothing going on to keep anything cool or to circulate the blood. In humans it’s called blood poison, sepsis, gangrene, etc.

 

[butcherboy]

A few of the pics I saved. I had much much more but have deleted them over the years.

 

[dusky]

Thanks for sharing. Tough situation. That griz encounter must have been a rush. What would you do differently, knowing what you know now?

 

[Smtn10pt]

Just a comment about leaving the bull over night, that doesn't necessarily mean the meat will go bad. That would all depend on how long the bull lived. If you made a shot that took awhile to be fatal you may find that when you recover him the following day he had just passed, and the meat may be fine.